Rescue Me - '51 41D

[Guest shadetree77]

Eric, if you're talking about the POR-15 rust paint (the black stuff) then you could paint over the rust. If you're talking about POR-15 engine enamel, then you would need to get ALL the rust off of there. But first, I hope you soaked those parts in water and baking soda for at least 24 hours to neutralize the vinegar. Otherwise, the acid could come out of the metal under your paint and eat through it. Maybe that fuel pump was original. Maybe I was right about Buick mixing and matching. Who knows? My lines are missing those original line clips. Matter of fact, I've NEVER seen those clips until I saw yours. They are ALWAYS missing. I always wondered what they would look like. Now I know.

[Eric W]

Thanks for the advice on the engine enamel vs. rust encapsulator. I have those couple of parts in soda soak now, but I'm going to hold off coatings until I can try media blast. With that capability, the vinegar soak may be moot for all but the smallest parts. I've already proven to myself I can shine up some pretty tiny screws and washers on the wheel. A carry-over from the aluminum work - it's a Scotchbrite wheel on a bench grinder (about $70 just for the wheel, from aircraft tool suppliers). Much less intimidating (to bare fingers) than a wire brush wheel - I don't use gloves for the screws, etc. for better ability to maneuver them around. Your finger has to hit that wheel pretty hard to get zinged, and even then it only leaves a hot spot but doesn't break the skin. So pretty nice for shining up bolt heads & washers.

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3753 - Link to scotchbrite wheel.

Couple of examples of bolts cleaned up on the Scotchbrite wheel. Interesting the lock washers for the coil bracket have ridges along the edge (left bolts in 2nd photo). The bolts in the right side of the 2nd photo are the thermostat housing to head bolts - those are Al crush washers, and they look like they've had some crushing. Anyone have a source for these?

Edited September 15, 2013 by Eric W
added link, photos, comments (see edit history)

[smithbrother]

old-tank, you posted that the BLAST CABINET is the most single used tool in your shop.

I have a 3-car shop, two doors closed off, one open so when I need to I can pull a car in.

I have an OUTSIDE BLAST TANK, use it seldom, but have/am considering a cabinet. I have an 80-gallon air compressor 220-V, 175 lb. compressor, and it provides fast recovery, so I'm thinking a cabinet would work fine. I don't do restores, so probably wouldn't use as much as you, is there other things you use the cabinet for, besides RUST?

My shop is set-up for wood and metal. Here are the tools I find most useful,

14" 70 years old cast iron two speed band saw, 1" table belt sander, 6" floor belt sander, drill press, mig welder with gas, plasma cutter, spindle sander, and of course hand and power and air tools. I make most of my sanding blocks.

Don't ever take my kidding SERIOUS, I tend to kid a bit hard, wife of 53 years says, to hard, sorry if my kidding offends anyone, FOR SURE!

I am looking at Harbor Freight's floor cabinet, special at $179.99. I would guess the gun is the weak part, but considering this unit. Any comments anyone has on this is most WELCOME.

Dale in Indy

[old-tank]

old-tank, you posted that the BLAST CABINET is the most single used tool in your shop.

I have a 3-car shop, two doors closed off, one open so when I need to I can pull a car in.

I have an OUTSIDE BLAST TANK, use it seldom, but have/am considering a cabinet. I have an 80-gallon air compressor 220-V, 175 lb. compressor, and it provides fast recovery, so I'm thinking a cabinet would work fine. I don't do restores, so probably wouldn't use as much as you, is there other things you use the cabinet for, besides RUST?

My shop is set-up for wood and metal. Here are the tools I find most useful,

14" 70 years old cast iron two speed band saw, 1" table belt sander, 6" floor belt sander, drill press, mig welder with gas, plasma cutter, spindle sander, and of course hand and power and air tools. I make most of my sanding blocks.

Don't ever take my kidding SERIOUS, I tend to kid a bit hard, wife of 53 years says, to hard, sorry if my kidding offends anyone, FOR SURE!

I am looking at Harbor Freight's floor cabinet, special at $179.99. I would guess the gun is the weak part, but considering this unit. Any comments anyone has on this is most WELCOME.

Dale in Indy

The Harbor freight model is similar to the one I bought from TP 20 years ago. Using only glass beads I have gone thru 4 pairs of glove and 6 ceramic tips ( which need to be matched to your air supply ). TP sells upgrade/replacement parts.

Even though it is a cabinet it is messy, so don't put it next to where you rebuild engines and transmissions.

The scotchbrite wheel is a good idea too!...nice finish. (bead blast, scothbrite wheel, clearcoat...)

The aluminum washers only serve as a seal under the head of bolts. In most cases sealer on the treads will serve the same purpose (except the valley cover on nailheads)...I too would like to know a source (tired of making them )

Willie

[TexasJohn55]

Eric,

From the pics of the thermostat housing your cooling system is in poor shape. Have you considered removing all the freeze plugs and digging out the sediment and scale? Mine had built up and covered the rear plug and finally started leaking from corrosion eating up the plug. I flushed out the block with garden hose and nozzle after digging out what I could.

[Eric W]

Added to the list. I'm into enough things around the engine of this car to have started a list to give some order to just going out there and unbolting what I can see...

Eric,

From the pics of the thermostat housing your cooling system is in poor shape. Have you considered removing all the freeze plugs and digging out the sediment and scale? Mine had built up and covered the rear plug and finally started leaking from corrosion eating up the plug. I flushed out the block with garden hose and nozzle after digging out what I could.

[TexasJohn55]

When you get to the cooling system, consider the sediment and scale in the heaters and trans cooler. Mine would hardly flow any water, had to remove and spend about 2 hrs beatin' and bangin' while flushing with a garden hose just to get moderate flow restored. It was amazing how much I got out of them. If funds were available I would have replaced them. My heater works well enough for the south.

[Eric W]

Duly noted on the heat exchangers. In the initial stage of get-it-running, I may just bypass the cabin heaters. I know there's been debate on these forums on how to do that, but now that I've compared the diagrams to the hardware, I don't think it would be too hard. So - latest items. It may seem like details of every last little thing, but part of posting these pics is I have found others' pics to be helpful.

Removing the battery tray. 4 bolts to the frame. The one that the wrench is on has a nut underneath. I could reach both the nut and the wrench handle from below.

Cleaning off the frame under the battery tray. Not detailing to paint, but just scrape off the caked-on mud:

Pulled the fan and water pump:

The "splash" pan in front of the radiator was trimmed by maybe 1 1/2" (the radiator is a 3 1/2" core!):

Anyone have this tray? There's 2 on ebay right now - very nice for $175 and 25% rusted away for $17. I'm somewhere in between - all metal there, maybe $50.

Generator and water pipe out:

Front of engine. Was going to compression check, but I only have a metric setup. But the engine turns over pretty easily by hand.

[retirednow]

Do you mean this pan? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-1952-Buick-Radiator-Splash-Pan-50-70-Series-50-51-GM-Buick-Lower-Prot-Plate-/380719177540?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a4a19f44&vxp=mtr I've purchased several items from this guy. Reasonable prices and fast service

[Eric W]

I too have bought from this guy - excellent to deal with. Unfortunately for me he specializes in 50-70 series items, but I'll take a chance this will fit the 40-series. Studying the photos, it sure looks the same. Thanks for the link!

Checks off 1 of 4 things I know I need (in the rusty-gold rather than repro market) - the other 3 are:

40-series steel wheel for the full-size hubcap from '51. - no hurry on this one, it will be the spare.

Radiator frame w/ triangulating braces. - the braces were cut out on my car to make way for the super-heavy-duty radiator.

Radiator.

Do you mean this pan? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-1952-Buick-Radiator-Splash-Pan-50-70-Series-50-51-GM-Buick-Lower-Prot-Plate-/380719177540?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a4a19f44&vxp=mtr I've purchased several items from this guy. Reasonable prices and fast service

[retirednow]

You're welcome! Hopefully that works:D

[NC-car-guy]

Looking great Eric.

[Eric W]

Thanks, guys. Well, the pan is on the way, and the same guy has a radiator support frame that also probably will be heading this way. So the big part remaining to source is the radiator. Given that the one I pulled off there weighs probably 50 lbs, that's something I'm going to see if I can get locally (within an hour or two drive). It's a shame that pan was hacked. I flaked off the undercoating - and it did its job for sure. The bottom side paint looks new. Here's some photos:

- top side. Light surface rust only.

- bottom side. Looks pretty good, but I flaked off some of that coating on each side.

- here is a little of the coating flaked off. The rest came off pretty easily. Too bad the floor farther back isn't like this...

I may have asked before - what holds the crank case breather tube on the "can" on the side of the engine? I saw a photo where I thought I could make out a clamp, but I was also told it's just a set screw through the tube. There's nothing on my car. Tube is 1 5/16" OD.

[Guest shadetree77]

Mine had a weird looking clamp on it when I got it. I don't know if it's original or if it's in the right place but it holds the tube on there and it WAS there when I got the car so that's where I put it. I don't have a good, clear shot of it. Here are the few pictures I have that kind of show it.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Eric,I have two 1950s. Neither have a clamp. Both were one owner cars.

Ben

[Eric W]

Thanks guys. I'll check around from underneath and see if there's a clamp or clip farther back that might have held the tube up. I believe I said - when I got the car, it was held up with a piece of wire between the tube and the battery tray. When I cut that wire, the tube fell right down. As you guys with these cars may know (or at least on my car), the breather tube also acts as a support for the fuel line. Or is it the other way around...

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Again, Eric, mine are '50s, but should be the same. Should b e a bracket near the back of the tube attaching it to the oil pan, I believe. Gas line should not be attached to breather tube.

Ben

[Guest shadetree77]

Hmmm...another one of those "How was it done originally?" mysteries. I looked up the crankcase ventilator tube section in my Chassis Manual (starting at group #1.762) and there are FOUR parts listed that make up the ventilator tube and the various parts that hold it together. This is referring to 1950-1952 Dynaflow cars series 40 and 50. There is the tube itself (group 1.762, part #1336821), two different clamps for the tube (group 1.763, part #1336463 and part #1341010) and the support for the tube (group 1.763, part #1536464).

The way mine is set up, the tube support is a bracket that attaches to one of the transmission to engine bolts (if I remember correctly). There is a clamp on the end of the tube that attaches to this support and when tightened down, holds the tube in place on the lower end. Then there is another clamp that holds the upper end of the tube to the outlet on the side of the engine. Ben, I did find reference to the clamp you were talking about that attaches to the oil pan and it seems that this type of clamp only exists on the series 70 cars (group 1.763, part #1341363).

As for any attachment to the fuel line, I don't see how it would be possible. BUT, if you look at the clamp that is on the upper end of my tube, it does have a strange raised area on the side of it that would fit a fuel line perfectly. It sort of looks like the original clamps shown on Eric's car that hold the metal lines coming from the carb. area in that it has that same kind of "bump" in it that allows for holding a line. I'll try to get clear pictures of all of this stuff when I can. I love little these little mysteries. I like to have my stuff all original and I enjoy trying to hash out all the little details like this.

Ben, if yours doesn't have a clamp on the upper part of it, what holds it to the engine? Mine slips right off without anything holding it.

Eric, do you have any pictures of the fuel line being attached to the ventilator tube?

Edited September 25, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Eric W]

Robert - thanks for the part numbers. They seem to indicate that there is a front, mid, and rear clamp on the breather tube. See photo #1 in post #48 of this thread, where I was showing the wrench handle on the battery tray bolt. There's the clamp between the breather and fuel line. Maybe it's just missing on your and Ben's cars - but it's clearly a "double loop" kind of shape - a big loop around the breather and a small loop around the fuel line. I intend to look this over more closely from below, but right now there's a pile of oily, greasy dirt and wasps nests under the car that I have to clean out. Well, I guess I don't have to, but it sure will be a lot nicer to get under there if I do...

[Guest shadetree77]

Eric, the clamp I have on the upper part of my tube looks just like that one you have on the mid-point of your tube. It has that "loop" or "bump" that looks like it fits a metal line. That's what I was trying to describe in my last post. I'm curious to know how (or IF) that clamp is attached to the engine on your car. If it is attached to the oil pan, either someone added the wrong type of clamp at some point in your car's life OR the parts manual lies and Buick put that type of clamp on more than just the 70 series cars. I'm putting a new oil pan gasket on my car today so I should be able to snap some pictures of my set-up. Looking forward to a few of yours whenever you clean up that greasy pile of junk under there. Amazing how quickly that stuff piles up isn't it?

[Eric W]

I'll get some more photos. I was raising the back end of the car yesterday to start the gas tank removal (and found yet more wasp nests). I know there's been some not-quite-stock repair work done in the car's history with the radiator being incorrect, etc. Though that "incorrect" fuel pump - I guess there's no way to know if that was actually a replacement, or just an on-the-line substitution from the factory because the lines with those original c-clips are configured exactly for the pump.

The way the clamp is installed on the breather & fuel line makes sense to me. One of my jobs for quite a while was designing tube/hose assemblies for jet engines, and it would be structurally desirable to have a clamp point up close to the hose interface on the fuel line like is on my car. So maybe the clamp actually serves more than one purpose - install it at the top end of the breather tube to keep the breather tube from sliding down, and have another one on the lines farther back to stabilize the engine side of the fuel line.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Guys, I did not disassemble my 41d. Still pushing the semi down the road. I will try to get underneath the mod 52 soon and take a look.

Ben

[Eric W]

It's not letting me post photos now. I cleaned up under there and got some good ones. Anyway, the hardware proves me wrong, and Robert and Ben both right, in a way. The clamp on my car that is wrapped around the breather and fuel lines is not bolted to anything. It's not positioned in a way that it could just fall to that position - more like someone just pushed it around the breather and fuel lines because that extra bump in the clamp made it look like that's where it could go. So I guess I have my "top of the breather tube" clamp. Just have to pull it out and get a bolt in it.

There is a clamp farther back on the breather tube. I'm guessing it's bolted to the oil pan, but I couldn't really tell. But the very back end of the breather tube is solidly held to something with a clamp.

I even got some shots of the frame and rear suspension. I wouldn't say exactly rust free, but pretty good condition. Even the see-through-to-the-ground holes under the driver's and front passenger's feet aren't all that bad. Might be more of patch-the-hole than replace-the-floor.

[Eric W]

Trying again for some photos:

Mystery clamp from above:

Mystery clamp from below - not actually connected to anything:

Clamp at back end of breather tube:

Center of frame from right side, under front seat:

Looking back along the right side:

Torque tube, rear axle, etc:

[Guest shadetree77]

Thanks for the pictures Eric. You have the same two clamps that I have. Only difference is that mine was moved to the top of the tube to clamp it to the engine. While yours doesn't appear to be attached to anything, I'm wondering now if it is supposed to be attached to the oil pan bolt as described in the parts manual. The manual says that type of clamp is only for 70 series cars but this clamp would attach perfectly to the oil pan exactly in that location. There is even a special place cut out on the oil pan edge to accommodate the clamp. I wonder if the combination of this middle clamp and the rear clamp would be enough support to hold the tube up enough for it not to slip off the engine? I meant to take some pictures of mine today but in my excitement to get everything finished I let the car down off the blocks and FORGOT to take pictures. Here is a picture of my oil pan when I painted it clearly showing the cut-out on the side of the oil pan. That clamp would attach right to that oil pan bolt and hold the tube up and support the fuel line. Makes sense to me. By the way, the rear clamp is attached to a bracket that is held on by one of the transmission to engine bolts. Of that, I am sure.

[retirednow]

Here's a picture of mine-pardon the crud please

[Eric W]

Thanks for the photos guys. If/when I get the pan cleaned off enough, I will give Robert's suggestion a try - take advantage of the cut in the pan lip to attach the clamp there and see what happens.

[Eric W]

Got the fuel tank out. Not as bad as I thought, but I'd had to work on the tank straps on the '55 already, so I knew not to completely un-do the bolts at the back of the tank strap. Just take them loose enough to unhook from the holes in the frame, then clean off the threads (to get the nuts the rest of the way off) with the straps outside the car. I had a jack under the tank, with a square of plywood between the jack and tank to spread the force, so this was pretty easy to do single-handed. Undo the straps, and with the tank still in place, undo the fuel fitting (probably should have done the fitting first, as the tank was a little wobbly on the jack). Lower the tank a little and unhook the sender wire from the tank clips, then lower the tank the rest of the way. Get it in "car lays an egg" position, then disconnect the sender wire where the tank is easy to get at. A couple of minutes with a wire brush to clean the caked-on dirt off the sender, and pull the sender. The float shattered and fell back in as I was trying to angle it back out of the hole. Tank still has a little liquid inside, and a varnish smell. Will get this to the radiator shop for cleaning, as the metal looks really good.

Looking back at right side of tank. More wasp nests over top of differential (and they were all over the top of the tank as well):

Car lays an egg:

Under trunk floor - not too bad:

Undercoating falling off (did its job pretty well):

Unclip sender lead from tank, move tank to where it's easy to disconnect the sender:

Tank out & free:

Sender caked w/ dirt:

Cleaned off to access screws:

Sender out - may be better off getting a new one:

[Eric W]

Changed out the hood release cables. It seems CARS, Inc. is selling individual items on eBay with reduced shipping cost. Maybe they've found that they get more sales on single items if they can chip into that shipping cost. Anyway, what sucked me in was the "1 remaining" on the buy-it-now. So of course, as soon as I buy it, it's relisted with 10 remaining... They do take the opportunity to ship me their full-line printed catalog... Which let me know about a whole bunch of parts I didn't know existed.

Anyway, changing out the cable. The RH one had broken, so it was easy to pull the cable out by the knob. How to get the knob off, because the replacement cables don't have knobs, and if they did, there would be a cable with 2 big "ends" that can't pass through the small holes in the car and hood release lever. Carefully pry off the decorative cap in the center of the knob. Then, the cable is held in by a star washer (see picture). To get the star washer out, I bent a very small hook on a paper clip. Worked the hook between the prongs of the "star". Then pulled the paper clip with pliers. A couple of tries, and the star washer comes out. Then, get the "C" washer off the cable end. On one, it pressed off pretty easily. On the other, it had marks like it had been squashed onto the cable with vise grips or something. These "C" washers are very soft metal, so a little prying with a screwdriver and the "C" was opened up enough to come off. The LH cable still had some strands left to open the hood, so I just finished it off with a wire cutter to get the old cable & knob out by pulling back into the car rather than attempt to remove the knob in the car to pull the cable back out the front.

Install - install from the front. Through the hood lever, back through the firewall grommet. Secure the cable sleeve in the clip under the dash - ABOVE the bolt. (see picture) Pull cable back enough to insert through knob, add C-washer. How to get the star washer back in there so it's actually gripping the knob? I used a rivet set - held it in the knob by hand, and hit it with a rubber hammer to set the star washer back into the knob. Another possible tool would be a metal rod, 7/16" diameter, maybe 4" long. Add the decorative cap back to the knob. Done.

[JohnD1956]

ingenius! I had no idea this would be so intricate. Thanks for posting.

[retirednow]

Interesting! Thanks for posting. I got a set from Bobs', but haven't installed them yet

[Eric W]

Dave - it's definitely easier when you decide to cut the cable & pull it out then to let the gradual fraying decide when the hood will no longer open. Then you have to make the change with the added bonus of figuring out how to get the hood release open without the cable. Though it's a leap of faith to cut a still-hanging-on cable - then you're signed up to win the battle with the knob replacement. Well, I guess you could hang a vise grips on the end of a new cable to get the hood open, but that's just not as cool.

I wasn't sure the paper clip would work - I thought it might just straighten out. But it pulled enough to get the star washers out.

[Eric W]

Got the pump back from Then and Now today. Spent well more time with UPS than with T&N. Anyway, this now gives the rest of the under-hood a standard to live up to. Beautiful work. And they kept it configured just how I asked (plugged "true" outlet, left off the dome, etc.). May not be theoretically correct, but I believe it was original to the car, or someone did a heck of a good job bending up and fitting replacement lines somewhere along the way...

Enjoy:

[Guest shadetree77]

Looks great. Then and Now does awesome work don't they? That pump may very well be original to the car. Buick might have started retro-fitting that type to put on the Specials at some point. My lines were all modified and cut up so I couldn't tell if they were the originals. I don't think they were. That, combined with the fact that T&N told me that the pump I took off my car was a mixture of parts from two different pumps, made me think that someone had done some modification somewhere along the way. Did they send you a baggie with all of the crud and old fuel pump parts in it? They sent one to me and it was amazing to see all of the corroded crap that was inside that thing.

[retirednow]

Thanks Eric! I'll try your method for sure!

Dave - it's definitely easier when you decide to cut the cable & pull it out then to let the gradual fraying decide when the hood will no longer open. Then you have to make the change with the added bonus of figuring out how to get the hood release open without the cable. Though it's a leap of faith to cut a still-hanging-on cable - then you're signed up to win the battle with the knob replacement. Well, I guess you could hang a vise grips on the end of a new cable to get the hood open, but that's just not as cool.

I wasn't sure the paper clip would work - I thought it might just straighten out. But it pulled enough to get the star washers out.

[Eric W]

Not following my plan to "get it running" at all, I pulled the back seat:

Lizard skeleton - lizard eggs?

Rear floor - rubber cover:

Pulled rubber cover, pad below that, down to the rusty floor. There was some filler material in the corrugations to make it flat:

Seat back is held on with 2 clips about 15" in from each side, plus 2 smaller clips, one on each side (can see the outer clips near the door openings). Had to bend all of these a little to get the bottom of the seat to disconnect, then lift up to disengage the 3 hooks that hold the top of the seat back.

Back seat out:

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Looks pretty good, considering age.

Ben

[Guest shadetree77]

Thanks for posting these Eric. That's one thing I haven't done yet so it's good to see what I'm in for. My next big project is patching some holes in the floor so I will have to remove the seats. That lizard skeleton is cool! Lol. I would spray some clear coat on that sucker and hang it from my rear view. Or maybe I'm just weird. I do have a shrunken head on mine.

[Eric W]

Robert, I had pulled the seat a couple of times on the '55 to find the seatbelts which reportedly existed in the car. I bought it via the internet & no seabelts showed in the photos. There actually were some sad examples of backyard engineering - single point belts - yes, both ends of the belt went to a single bolt through the floor. Ok, remove seats again to install proper belts from Juliano's / seatbeltstore.com. Remove seats again to properly connect the rear speakers... At least in the '55, it's purely a lift and pull operation - no tabs to be bent. In the '51, it looks like you would want to minimize the seat removals (at least of the seat back) because the tabs need to be bent over to retain the bottom end of the seat back. The seat bottom in the '51 is simply lift the front edge and slide it forwards until it's clear of the back.

Ben - seeing these floors gives me much more appreciation for how relatively rust-free the '55 is. Though this '51 is quite solid under the seats. What is it about foot wells that lets them get so bad? Just the low point for where the water leaking in collected over the past 19 (or more) years that it spent parked outside?

Update on fuel tank - fuel tank did not clean up. When I picked it up I was surprised that the undercoating didn't come off in whatever they soak it in, and overall, it looked like solid metal. But the guy at the shop said it was pinholed. On the plus side, he didn't charge for the diagnosis, so that leaves me feeling like I'm already halfway ahead on a new tank. When I got it back home, I looked through the level sender hole and shined a flashlight around the outside perimeter of the bottom of the tank. Absolutely true - there's a gazillion little holes in it. With the undercoating on there, and just casually looking at it, (me who doesn't know what to look for) wouldn't think there's anything wrong with it at all. But I guess the varnish held the gas in for all these years... Add a new tank & level sender to the list...

[Eric W]

Pulled the defroster housing and core. Figured since I plan to get set up to sand blast and paint stuff, may as well get this going too, since it's simple to pull. It did make a great shelf for the light I've been using under the hood though...

Yes, that's the firing order...

Firewall flapper inside the duct:

Heater core - might be a leak on the outlet (left) side:

Scored a set of my favorite vintage hubcaps. At least to my eye, they make the rims look deeper than they are. Didn't know, but took a chance they would fit these wheels, and they do:

They're not in all that great condition, but not very expensive either.