1930 Buick - Looking for fittings

[michaelod]

I am currently trying to create some new oil pressure sender and vacuum lines on my 1930 Buick. They use a type of male fitting that I am unable to locate. The modern male fittings all seem to be in the inverted flare style. Does anyone have a source for the old style fittings and if not will the inverted flare fittings substitute just as well?

Thanks,

[jbbuick22]

Michael,

Try McMaster Carr, they have a very similar fitting. (High pressure quick assembly brass compression tube fittings).

JB

22-6-55 Sport Touring

[michaelod]

JB,

Thanks for that tip however I am not able to locate these on their website. Could you post a link to the fittings you are referring to?

Edited July 16, 2013 by michaelod (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

Michael,

I am interested too. This is the McMaster Carr page. The high compression fittings JB is writing about are about half way down.

McMaster-Carr

Then click on Adapter male pipe then straight

High-Pressure Quick-Assembly Brass Compression Tube FittingsMaximum Pressure: 800 psi @ 72 ° F

Temperature Range: -65° to +250° F

Tubing: Use with polyethylene, polypropylene, nylon, copper, and aluminum

Get all the benefits of a quick-assembly fitting with the added capability of handling high pressure. The nut and sleeve (ferrule) are one piece; the sleeve breaks away from the nut when the tubing is installed, so there’s no need to remove the nut during installation. Compression fittings form a seal around the outside of the tubing. Fittings are made of forged or bar stock yellow brass with a brass sleeve. Use with water, air, and oil. They can be sterilized with steam (autoclaving). Vacuum rating is 29” Hg @ 72° F. Pipe connections are NPT (unless noted). Nut/tube ends have UNF straight screw threads.

For technical drawings and 3-D models, click on a part number.

Adapters, Tube to Male Threaded Pipe

Pipe connection is NPTF (Dryseal), which is compatible with NPT.

For Tube

OD Pipe

Size Nut/Tube

End Thread Each

1/8" 1/8 5/16"-24 50815K158 $2.67

3/16" 1/8 3/8"-24 50815K162 2.91

1/4" 1/8 7/16"-24 50815K164 2.83

1/4" 1/4 7/16"-24 50815K166 3.23

3/8" 1/4 9/16"-20 50815K168 4.00

1/2" 3/8 11/16"-16 50815K172 10.74

Dwight

Edited July 16, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks JB.

I ordered some fittings for my fuel line. I did not want to flare them and these look like the old flared fittings. With a 800 psi rating, I don't think I will lose any sleep!

Dwight

[Dwight Romberger]

The next fittings in the catalog after the high pressure ones look interesting too.

[h=3]Vibration-Resistant Brass Compression Tube Fittings[/h]Nitrile gasket to absorb vibration. Compatible with water, oil, oil, gas etc 300psi

[michaelod]

Thanks guys, I am ordering some as well.

Dwight, I just finished installing my gas tank and in the process had to create a new loop that runs from the fuel pump to the carburetor. On its surface it appears to be something very simple to create, however it took me 5 attempts (a good thing I had enough 5/16 copper tube) and the better part of a whole day to make this using flare fittings due to the fact that once the loop in the copper was created it was darn near impossible to get the tube cutter and flaring tools into the correct position. I finally achieved success however I never want to do that again!

[DonMicheletti]

I had the same fitting problem with my '38. I lost the fittings that fit the oil lines on the engine that are like that. I ended up buying regular internal flare fittings from Mc Master and machining them to accomodate the old lines.

There must be a source of these fittings somewhere.

[Dwight Romberger]

Michael,

These new fittings will make that loop easier for me. I have quite a bit of plumbing experience and I could not think of a way to flare the fittings for that loop. What type of tubing bender did you use?

Dwight

[Dwight Romberger]

Don,

If these work well for my fuel lines, I am going to use them for the oil and vacuum lines as well.

Dwight

[michaelod]

Michael,

These new fittings will make that loop easier for me. I have quite a bit of plumbing experience and I could not think of a way to flare the fittings for that loop. What type of tubing bender did you use?

Dwight

I used a 1/8" NPT to 5/16" 45 degree flare adapter on both the carburetor and fuel pump. I then followed with a length of 5/16" copper tube (the correct size for fuel line on the car) and standard flare nuts. I used an inexpensive tubing bender with 2 rollers on the ends and a larger one in the center along with very small bends of the tool and a LOT of patience. I used the roller for 3/8" as it was the closest size to the 5/16" fuel line which is not common. The first several attempts failed miserably when I attempted to flare the ends as there was no room for the tools. Over the course of the failures I learned where in the tube I would need to make my bends and the correct length. On the final attempt I cut to length, made my flares, and bent the tube with the fittings already in place. Never again...

Edited July 16, 2013 by michaelod (see edit history)

[michaelod]

Dwight,

One final note. It is not enough to just bend the tube in order to make the connection. You will need to take into account the bend must be made in a position that allows the rod for the spark advance to pass through the loop and have freedom of movement. I discovered this fact during one of my attempts when there was interference with my spark advance rod after I had bent the loop.

Thanks,

[john hanson]

When you are looking for these fittings put in Bijur Fitting John Hanson

[Bob Engle]

This style fitting was called a dole fitting. They were used well into the 50's on fuel lines. I purchased my fittings from Mac Blair several years ago. You can also salvage your old fittings by carefully cutting the old tube out of the fitting and then using a tapered rod of the correct diameter to swage the fitting diameter back to accept new tubing. It can help to anneal the fittings by heating them to a dull red and then dropping them in water. This is the process for annealing copper and brass.

Bob Engle

[Dwight Romberger]

I upgraded from 5/16 to 3/8 O.D. copper. I am just about finished and it is surprising how wrong the extra 1/16 looks. I am going to salvage some of the original 5/16 to make the pump to carb loop and the first piece from the pump to the midddle of the front crossmember. Then everything I can see will look correct.

New radiator should come Monday.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

OK. Dwight's tech tips for bending 5/16" O.D. fuel line.

As Michael noted, 5/16" O.D. bending tools are hard to come by and would probably be expensive if you can find them.

Yesterday, I bought a piece of 5/16" I.O. rubber fuel line (Autozone) $2.

I slit it lenghtwise and put it over the 5/16" fuel line.

I twisted a common 5/8" copper tubing bending coil (inexpensive plumbing tool Home Depot $9.86 for a complete set)

It made it easy to bend the 5/16" O.D. brass tubing around a drinking glass.

I then polished it with fine steel wool.

Here are some pics:

Edited July 20, 2013 by Dwight Romberger
lost pics (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Great job Dwight...

Now please send me your photos and a short how-to article for our newsletter.

[Dwight Romberger]

Thanks Mark. OK. I will.

[Bob Engle]

I have used your method of rubber hose and spring benders and then used the conventional tubing benders over the spring to make bends with the brass tubing which is a challenge to bend without kinks.

Bob Engle

[Bob Engle]

I forgot to mention, after polishing the tubing, spray it with satin clear high temp coating. You won't have to keep polishing in the future.

Bob engle

[Dwight Romberger]

Gee Bob, here I thought I was so smart coming up with the coil over the rubber hose idea!

Thanks for the advice. I sprayed it with some clearcoat. Polishing it once was more than enough for me. I know I would never do it again.

The new fittings should come in the mail tomorrow to finish the job. I will hit them with some clearcoat as well.

Dwight

[Dwight Romberger]

Michael,

Just a heads-up. I bought Formable Brass (260 alloy) from McMaster-Carr. It is the correct stuff, but I had to anneal it before I could bend it successfully.

I heated it with a propane torch until it glowed blue. (orange is too hot. just back off alittle to blue. Then run cold water from the sink over the length.

It made it as easy as soft copper tubing to bend.

I had to solder in one of the new male 1/8" male pipe fittings into the stepdown elbow bolted to the motor.

I took it apart and resoldered both pieces in place. (not a good idea if you have alot of oil or fuel on you engine)

Here are some pics and I will post one of the finished project:

[Dwight Romberger]

I had to repaint the canister because I scratched it. Paint is still wet, but here are the tubes. I will have to redo the 5/16" line. It is salvaged fuel line with lots of dings. I can't take it to Pebble Beach looking like that!

[michaelod]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]205605[/ATTACH]Michael,

Just a heads-up. I bought Formable Brass (260 alloy) from McMaster-Carr. It is the correct stuff, but I had to anneal it before I could bend it successfully.

I heated it with a propane torch until it glowed blue. (orange is too hot. just back off alittle to blue. Then run cold water from the sink over the length.

It made it as easy as soft copper tubing to bend.

I had to solder in one of the new male 1/8" male pipe fittings into the stepdown elbow bolted to the motor.

I took it apart and resoldered both pieces in place. (not a good idea if you have alot of oil or fuel on you engine)

Here are some pics and I will post one of the finished project:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]205602[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]205603[/ATTACH]

Dwight,

First of all thank you so much for your assistance here. I have a couple of questions:

1) I am not clear on why you needed to unsolder the pipe from the mount with the two bolts.

2) When you solder your new NPT fitting into the fitting side of the mount with the two bolts, is the reason for that because you are essentially trying to join two fittings (old style and new) that are not compatible and trying to get a good seal between the two?

My soldering skills are not as good as yours and I will definitely remove the pipe with the mount and do this on the workbench, otherwise the odds are high I would fry the paint on my firewall.

[Dwight Romberger]

Hi Michael,

There was an odd 5/16" fitting soldered into the filter side of the fitting bolted to the block, so I had to remove it.

I did not have the old style 1/4" compression fitting that belongs there, so I had to solder in a new 1/4" O.D. tube x 1/8" male pipe brass fitting. I chose a 1/8" male pipe fitting just because it fit in the hole snuggly.

Remember to mark the tube and fitting before you remove them so that you can get the proper alignment when you solder them back together.

Dwight

Edited July 29, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)