advice on how to shift unsynchronized treansmission

[tcslr]

What adive can you give me? on level ground, I can shift fairly well and avoid clash. what is the best way for downshifting going up a grade? down a grade? Thanks.

[Bleach]

Best is to double clutch. This link explains better than I could in a thread. HowStuffWorks "How do you double clutch shift?"

[Guest]

You can also downshift without using the clutch. Just put the transmission in neutral, speed the engine up to the proper revs and shift into the lower gear. I only ever use my clutch for starting. An old trucker told me many years ago when I was just learning to drive that you never ever plan on downshifting on a downgrade. He said you should be going down in the same gear that you would go up in. The reasoning of course if you miss the shift you could now have the vehicle going faster than the engine will rev and you could be going down in "Mexican overdrive" (very very dangerous).

[ply33]

There are a number of videos on YouTube that come up if you search for "double clutch". Seems like truckers and rally drivers still use the technique on new vehicles.

One thing that helps me is to do the shift at a lower speed and engine RPM than I'd use on a modern car. Most older (non-synchromesh transmission) cars have very good low end torque and are happy to be shifted into or out of high between 10 and 20 MPH. Its a lot easier to match the wheel and engine speed there than at higher speeds and RPMs.

[cahartley]

Yeah........throw any ideas about speed shifting out the window.

Depending on what it is you are driving the best and least "clashiest" way to shift is at low speeds when you can avoid double clutching MOST of the time.

Between gears take your time shifting up, get into high gear as soon as you can and stay there.

Never try a down shift at higher speeds. My Ford Model A is OK with going from 3rd to 2nd in a real fast motion with NO hesitation...BANG ZOOM...... LOL .......I must admit I was afraid to try the 3rd/2nd thing the first time but it works fine. It's the recommended way to shift in the Model A Bible too.......

My crashbox Dodge isn't happy with anything at any time at any speed up OR down......... :mad:

You'll figure it out.

[Restorer32]

Many use the "grit and grab" technique. Grit your teeth and grab the shifter and put 'er in gear. With practice double clutching becomes natural and shifting without touching the clutch is kinda fun.

[Rusty_OToole]

Visualize 2 gears. Now imagine one of them sliding along its shaft, in and out of mesh with the other one. You can see how they will mesh smoothly while both gears are stopped. But if one is turning and the other is stopped, they will clash and grind together.

Now visualize both gears turning at the same speed. They will slide in and out of mesh, the same as if they were stopped.

This is what you are trying to accomplish. When you shift up, as you take your foot off the gas, the engine slows down to the same speed it will be going in the higher gear. At this speed, the gears will mesh easily.

When shifting down, you must rev the engine up to the same speed it will be going in the lower gear.

Tinindian and other skilled drivers can accomplish this without using the clutch. The rest of us use the clutch to disconnect the gears from the motor and allow them to turn freely, and hopefully if we have them close to the right speed they will mesh without too much agony.

Once you get the idea, and practice a bit, you will get the knack of it. It helps to keep these facts in mind even if you have a synchromesh transmission as careful shifting will minimize wear on the transmission. If you ever drive an old car that pops out of gear you know the previous drivers were not skilled or careful.

[Rusty_OToole]

Ply 33 has a good point. Old cars with non synchro transmission need very little gear shifting. They are made to drive all day in high gear, idle down to a walking pace and pull away smoothly in high. Once you get into high gear you can stay there unless you make a complete stop and of course, then changing gear is easy.

[Guest cben09]

Re post #5,,,Dodge [assume 4 cylender model],,

When it is put into hi/3rd,,it disengages the countershaft so it stops!!

When you shift to 2nd it crashes to bring the countershaft back to speed,,

The idea was elimanating power loss in high,,which wasn't much,,

Another lost idea,,theory only,,that direct drive thing,,

Good drawing of this in owners manual,,,Cheers,,Ben

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Lots of good advice above, but one additional step you may want to take is to ensure your transmission oil is fresh and that the clutch is properly adjusted. Having those things in top shape can reduce the challenge of shifting smoothly.

Not sure on your cars, but I found much smoother shifting after changing the trans oil in my Model A to a 600 weight oil AKA "Steam engine oil" sold by MACs out of NY and likely several other Model A vendors. I understand this may be a touch thicker than the original oil, this to slow down the gears just a bit during the shift process. For my car, that made a big difference and shifts were pretty smooth. You may want to research this as this stuff may be applicable to your cars.

As said above, the object is to upshift as soon as practical and use high gear 95% of the time, not to "run the revs up" on the engine in the current gear as is more or less the case with a more modern manual transmission.

Practice makes perfect.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[TWE143]

Most are good advice. Maybe most important is experience, lots of practice. After you get it down, you will find the first time thru the gears it will be different, because the tranny lube is still cold. The comment about "Mexican overdrive" is true, but you will have to downshift at times: when going uphill and you find out you need a lower gear, and when coming to a traffic light in high and it changes to green before you are stopped, but going too slow for high. Double clutch of course, and rev the engine up to match the gear speeds; this is where you need the experience (or good luck which I hope for.)

Just wait until you get a truck with 2 sticks and you want to split shift--both at once!

[Restorer32]

600 Weight Steam Cylinder Oil is also available from Graingers.

[TexRiv_63]

I learned to double clutch on upshifts just fine but downshifting always eluded me. All the advice to "rev up the engine to match the gear speeds" - how do you actually determine what speed that is? I can honestly say I have never done that successfully in many tries.

[ply33]

I learned to double clutch on upshifts just fine but downshifting always eluded me. All the advice to "rev up the engine to match the gear speeds" - how do you actually determine what speed that is? I can honestly say I have never done that successfully in many tries.

i just "blip" the gas pedal. If it sounds right (engine sound that is) then I move the shift lever from neutral to the lower gear I'm going to. If it doesn't sound right. . . well there are times I still have a noisy shift. My guess is that the exact feel will be different for every car.

I don't know for sure the original poster's model car but if cben09 is correct (post 9 in this thread), it may be that double clutching for down shifting won't work on that car.

[Guest cben09]

Correct,,,,there is NO way to shift that Dodge from hi to second while moving,,,quietly,,

I think I was around 11 or 12 when I took the cover off and looked inside,after jacking a wheel to see what was happening,,while shifting,,,then I confirmed what I saw ,,looking in the owners manual,,

Later on I bought a '29 Packard,,,of course I hadda look in there too,,NICE gears,,

and later again spent $35 bucks on a '31 -4 speed tranny,,With this,,losing speed from 40mph,,as it got to 30mph,,,,,,,,hold gas down x amount,,pop the clutch twice,,

and snap it into third,,,CLICK,,,,gottit,,,nice shift,,,I still like that 31 -4 speed,,

They all shift a little different,,,but if you use it as your daily driver ,,you'll become proficient at it,,,

Packard,4-cyl,,,Pierce -4 speed,,,3speed,,White,4-speed,,,Bugatti-racer,,Bugatti-T57,,

Chevy-GMC/4 onna floor 3/4 ton,,oh yes,,Lozier too,,All these are a bit different,,

BUT all real fun when you get used to it,,and some of these shift better/faster than the syncro,,never liked the Packard '32-36 syncro boxes,,move the lever twice through the

syncro before pushing the lever all the way home,,

I hope this makes some sence to you guys that did not grow up with the crash boxes,,

Go gently and try to master the technique,,it can be fun,,,The sound / pitch of the tranny

will be helpful,,Best of luck,,,Cheers Ben

[Guest cben09]

After bliping the gas,,,immediatly move the shift lever,,

A pause at this point,,will have the gears slow down,,and will not be spinning at the desired speed,,,They are at the right speed for a short time,,

If you try to keep the engine and gears at that speed,,,the car will be slowing down,,especially on a hill

So its mix and match,,

BUT its much easer than baseball or tennis,,of which I know absolutely nothing,,,,Ben

There may be a pop quiz tomorrow,,CB

[smithbrother]

One thing is CERTAIN, there is no lack of OPINIONS here, hehehe.

Enjoy the SHIFTING,,,,,,,

Dale in Indy

[padgett]

I used to be able to shift a Jag with a Moss gearbox into 1st from 2nd at 25-30 mph.

Also back when it was more important to win a drag race than to save a gearbox (trannies could be had for $35) there were two ways to shift a Muncie (large shaft) gearbox: pull as hard as you could on the shifter and either leave right foot on the floor and bat the clutch or leave the clutch alone and blip the gas. Faster than any automagic of the day.

This is why the first mod was swapping the OEM Hurst shift rods that were known to bend with something larger.

[TexRiv_63]

and some of these shift better/faster than the syncro,,never liked the Packard '32-36 syncro boxes,,move the lever twice through the

syncro before pushing the lever all the way home,,

Best of luck,,,Cheers Ben

My 28 Pierce was a true crashbox, never got the downshift right but after I filled it with 600 the upshifts were great. The 32 Caddy was synchronized and very smooth but you had to be patient on the 3-2 downshift. Your comment above on the Packard synchro boxes is interesting. My 34 shifts great until it fully warms up, then it balks a bit. I've been double clutching it to be safe but the downshifts are a problem. I have 140 wt. oil in it, wondering if it needs to be thicker...

[Rusty_OToole]

I learned to double clutch on upshifts just fine but downshifting always eluded me. All the advice to "rev up the engine to match the gear speeds" - how do you actually determine what speed that is? I can honestly say I have never done that successfully in many tries.

When driving make a mental note of the engine sound in second, when you shift into high. Next time you shift down from 3 to 2 at the same speed you will know how high to rev. to make the engine sound the same. It does not have to be exact but the closer the better.

[R Walling]

I have no problem double clutching my motor coach with a 4 speed trans, but getting it into gear after starting is a real problem. (On a coach, you will want to start it and let it run for a while to build air pressure) I finally had to resort to shutting it off and then putt it in gear and starting it with the clutch depressed.

If I very slowly ease it into 1st gear from neutral, I almost do it with little noise, but I always worry that it is not doing the trany any good.

Any suggestions from any one on this mater?

(1974 MCI Coach)

[R W Burgess]

................I finally had to resort to shutting it off and then putt it in gear and starting it with the clutch depressed.

If I very slowly ease it into 1st gear from neutral, I almost do it with little noise, but I always worry that it is not doing the trany any good.

Any suggestions from any one on this matter?

(1974 MCI Coach)

Two things Roger:

1. a Clutch adjustment is in order.

2. If that does not correct the problem (internal clutch brake worn), you can go to a good "Big Truck" repair shop to "add" a small replacement clutch brake pad. It is a 2 piece affair that is cogged and slips around the transmission shaft without taking anything apart. Most have small "roll pins" that turn them into a one piece clutch brake pad. We have used them for years on Eaton/Fuller transmissions.

Wayne

[trimacar]

Here's a good period read on the shifting subject, remember Gus?

Www.Gus-stories.org/september_1925.htm

Edited July 9, 2013 by trimacar (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Here's a good period read on the shifting subject, remember Gus?

September 1925

That's a great series of articles!

[mrpushbutton]

Great advice here, the best of which is "forget speed shifting" and "Get into high as soon as possible" --in otherwords, forget everything you know about driving/shifting a manual trans. You won't be going "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-Whhhaaaaaaaa, Wh-Wh-Whaaaaaaaaaaa" like you did in previous, more modern cars. More like Errrrr-Er-Er-Er-Er-Errrrr-Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"