Unusual radiator problem

[keiser31]

It is new! I only just bought a new dog bone and gauge for a small fortune but it looks brilliant!

I have also got a new emblem to replace the grotty one that came with the car (no enamel at all) and when I have had the rad shell and headlight rims re-plated the car will look a whole lot better.

Ray.

One or some years of DB did not have enamel on the emblem.

[R.White]

Any chance of finding out which years, John? I would really like to know about this. Thank you.

Ray.

[robert b]

Ray the 1928 128 model has a stamped nickel style with out any enamel on it . Look on my profile pics of the sedan and you will see one.regards bob

Edited July 13, 2013 by robert b (see edit history)

[keiser31]

I had an emblem like that a couple of years ago. I thought it was 1927 or 1928. Thanks for the lesson.

[R.White]

As my car is a 1927 series ('26 build) I am wondering if it should have a nickel plated emblem. There is no trace of plating or enamel on mine. Just plain brass.

From looking at your rather nice sedan it would also imply that the shell should be nickel rather than chrome plated. Is your radiator nickel or chrome Bob?

[keiser31]

I have seen some brass ones on '27s, too. I wonder now if there were brass as well as nickel and enamel??

[robert b]

Ray that one is nickel plated as well as the bumpers,nickel requires more polishing than chrome but has a much softer appearance.

[robert b]

Some years ago I had a brass shell from an early Dodge ,don't know what year but it had been nickel plated. Due to rough usage it was badly cracked in may places mainly on the bends , gave it away to some one with an earler car than mine .

[R.White]

Bob, if your '28 rad shell is nickel and is correct, then mine being earlier, in theory should be nickel also. Without going to check, I think mine is chrome finish. It's definitely made of steel; not brass.

John. If brass was a period finish, then I am possibly looking at my emblem being original; although it has been disturbed or may be a replacement. At the moment it all seems rather confusing. I will be holding off further work until I am satisfied that I know (the best I can) what I should be doing. I don't want to make a silly mistake but if no one is sure what is correct, I will go with what I like best.

Ray.

[Guest 1930]

Bob, if your '28 rad shell is nickel and is correct, then mine being earlier, in theory should be nickel also. Without going to check, I think mine is chrome finish. It's definitely made of steel; not brass.

John. If brass was a period finish, then I am possibly looking at my emblem being original; although it has been disturbed or may be a replacement. At the moment it all seems rather confusing. I will be holding off further work until I am satisfied that I know (the best I can) what I should be doing. I don't want to make a silly mistake but if no one is sure what is correct, I will go with what I like best.

Ray.

I am sure that your shell will be nickel originally Ray, Dodge did not see chrome on Rad surrounds until some point in 28 models. I have noticed that many Canadian builds used Brass so we see the brass parts on many export vehicles, I am kinda surprised your surround is steel Ray?

Canadians used brass on alot of parts that we here manufactured with steel but I cannot remember the reasoning behind it.

Edited July 14, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[robert b]

1930 correct me if I am wrong ,didn't Oakland introduce chrome plating some time in late 27 and than the industry followed shortly after that ?

[Guest 1930]

1930 correct me if I am wrong ,didn't Oakland introduce chrome plating some time in late 27 and than the industry followed shortly after that ?

Not sure about Oakland but I would be interested in seeing where you found that info, good info. I guess that would support what I had mentioned in that a late 27 vehicle would be a 28 model series throughout the industry.

[R.White]

I am sure that your shell will be nickel originally Ray, Dodge did not see chrome on Rad surrounds until some point in 28 models. I have noticed that many Canadian builds used Brass so we see the brass parts on many export vehicles, I am kinda surprised your surround is steel Ray?

Canadians used brass on alot of parts that we here manufactured with steel but I cannot remember the reasoning behind it.

Thanks Jason. The surround is definitely steel and chrome plated but Inow doubt it is original to the car. You may remember, Robert B confirmed that the actual radiator core had been replaced back in 1946 with a commercial vehicle one (20 3/4" x 19 1/2" x 3").

In another thread some time ago, I said that I had found evidence of accident damage to the front of the car. The left fender had been straightened out but the frame had bent slightly making it impossible to get the hood to fold right down. The bumper has also been replaced with a made up one and the left side headlight is out of alignment and tilts slightly upwards. I guess it is possible that the radiator was damaged in the same collision and may also explain the broken fan boss the repair of which I covered in an earlier thread. The 'up' side is that after much head scratching and adjustment I can now close the hood down quite smartly which has made a big difference to the appearance of the car.

It is quite possible that the car had hit a Kangaroo, which I understand is quite common there.

If I had known, I would have bought my new dog bone cap and motometer in plain brass and have them and the shell nickel rather than chrome plated. I still could I suppose. I just want it to look right.

Why the Canadians used brass rather than steel I don't know unless the climatic conditions led to corrosion problems with steel as they do here. Brass would certainly have been more expensive although perhaps easier to work with.

Ray.

[Guest 1930]

Thanks Jason. The surround is definitely steel and chrome plated but Inow doubt it is original to the car. You may remember, Robert B confirmed that the actual radiator core had been replaced back in 1946 with a commercial vehicle one (20 3/4" x 19 1/2" x 3").

In another thread some time ago, I said that I had found evidence of accident damage to the front of the car. The left fender had been straightened out but the frame had bent slightly making it impossible to get the hood to fold right down. The bumper has also been replaced with a made up one and the left side headlight is out of alignment and tilts slightly upwards. I guess it is possible that the radiator was damaged in the same collision and may also explain the broken fan boss the repair of which I covered in an earlier thread. The 'up' side is that after much head scratching and adjustment I can now close the hood down quite smartly which has made a big difference to the appearance of the car.

It is quite possible that the car had hit a Kangaroo, which I understand is quite common there.

If I had known, I would have bought my new dog bone cap and motometer in plain brass and have them and the shell nickel rather than chrome plated. I still could I suppose. I just want it to look right.

Why the Canadians used brass rather than steel I don't know unless the climatic conditions led to corrosion problems with steel as they do here. Brass would certainly have been more expensive although perhaps easier to work with.

Ray.

Your suggestion on climatic condition was going to be within my previous response but I decided not to add it since it was only a guess, makes more sense now though. I prefer nickel finish over chrome, I am not a fan of chrome.

BTW I am only suggesting brass being used possibly prevalent on parts in Can. It has only been my observation with owners of cars that I have dealt with.

[MikeC5]

I saw a car at Hershey a few years ago (1920's era) where the entire body was made of polished brass sheet... I'll see if I can dig up a photo of it.

[R.White]

Is this what you saw, Mike?

Edited July 16, 2013 by R.White (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Very good video Ray

[MikeC5]

Very interesting...

[R.White]

Glad you liked it. I have met Neil Tucket and Rod Jolley but it's a good few years ago now.

Ray.

[R.White]

Returning to the problem of the rad neck; Robert B has very kindly sent me a good replacement which I have now soldered on. The neck needed plating so I thought I would have a go at it myself.

There were a few groves in the brass which required filling. To do this, I copper plated, then rubbed down the surface a few times then finished with a bright nickel plate. The pictures attempt to show a process of D.I.Y. plating.:cool:

Ray.

[Ron Lawson]

Top job Ray How large of pieces can you do with your DIY kit?

[Guest occrj]

Looks fab, nickel really looks the part on cars of this era

R

[R.White]

Thank you guys. This kit is only really designed for small parts but you can buy one which will plate whatever you can fit in a bucket but that is quite expensive. What I have done is make the 'wand' bigger by using some stainless steel wire, the anode supplied and some foam rubber wired on. With this, I am going to attempt the radiator surround in Nickel. All you need is a DC power supply - I set mine at 6 volts; faster results can be had with higher voltage but there is a risk of burning marks. Larger quantities of solution and replacement anodes are available. All the chrome needs to be removed.

You do need patience but if I can get a decent copper surface which can be buffed it is only a matter of time....shame i's not a brass surround because it is so much easier to work with.

Ray.

[Pete K.]

Very nice Ray! You do good work. A lot of the old nickel plated cars had a re-chrome done for cheap money back in the very early thirties. It was called "keeping up with the Jones". Nickel was OUT and chrome was IN. The same holds true for folks painting their old oak iceboxes white. "It looked newer", and was similar to the new G.E. electric Monitor Top. An old timer in the plating business told me about the radiator replating in chrome over 40 years ago.

[R.White]

Thanks for the kind words, Pete. I have not heard about that 'up grade' story but it makes sense. (I guess we have all been guilty of doing similar things to '50s cars back in the 1970's - like adding indicators for example.)

Getting the chrome off the shell is the hardest part. Although it is flaking off it is adhering well in other places. If it proves too difficult, I will hand it over to a platers. I just like to "have a go".

Cheers,

Ray.

Edited July 19, 2013 by R.White (see edit history)

[Pete K.]

I sure can't blame you for trying anything on your own, especially these days of very high labor charges. Plating shops around here are disappearing all the time too, with the U.S. Dept.'s "EPA". I'm all for keeping a clean earth, but the EPA fees and guidelines with platers seems to be out of whack with reality. The old, "pass it on to consumer" is getting at the breaking point I think. Some cars just won't be restored, and possibly junked. When I say "junked", I mean "gone". No more old cars sitting in a big field anymore for us to pick over or even pull home to restore. Ahemm, Well, This is getting WAY off track here, sorry. Ray, keep on doing what you're doing! again, good job!--Pete.

[Guest 1930]

Ray how about a step by step of that home kit, keep it simple, make it thorough and include what pictures you can.

[R.White]

Plating videos, plating video, electroplating video, electroplating videos, brush plating videos

I hope these videos explain things better than I can.

Ray

[Ron Lawson]

Ray I believe that you can de-chrome things by reversing the proceedure Something about reversing the polarity of the D/C conection Ron

[R.White]

Yes, Ron. A negative charge will remove the positive charged metal plating. There are several ways of removing chrome plate, varying in how long it takes. Ideally, pass a negative charge through a warm solution of hydrochloric (muriatic)acid. I believe a stainless steel anode is used in the wand. A cheap alternative is cola. I don't drink the stuff but it is capable of lifting chrome plate eventually. Brake fluid, oven cleaner, bleach and caustic soda will all do the job but what voltage is required I can't remember.

[robert b]

Good job Ray ,like the nickel finish , glad to be of help.Bob

[Guest 1930]

Yes, Ron. A negative charge will remove the positive charged metal plating. There are several ways of removing chrome plate, varying in how long it takes. Ideally, pass a negative charge through a warm solution of hydrochloric (muriatic)acid. I believe a stainless steel anode is used in the wand. A cheap alternative is cola. I don't drink the stuff but it is capable of lifting chrome plate eventually. Brake fluid, oven cleaner, bleach and caustic soda will all do the job but what voltage is required I can't remember.

You dont drink Coca-Cola!!!! Whats the matter with you Ray?? Dont you want your insides all shiny and polished?

[R.White]

Thank you Bob. Yes, I would like to see the rad shell, cap etc. match the headlight rims in nickel; it should all polish up well.

You will probably have noticed that the 'tang' is in the wrong place to locate the overflow pipe. Fortunately, the pipe is quite firmly fixed so with luck will not be a problem. The original neck had not been attached to the pipe which looks as if it may have been shortened (or perhaps broken off when the original neck came adrift) and then extended again to the top of the neck with a short piece of hose. Like many alterations on this car, I could not quite fathom out the reason for it at first but guess it must have suffered trauma at some stage.

Ray.

[R.White]

You dont drink Coca-Cola!!!! Whats the matter with you Ray?? Dont you want your insides all shiny and polished?

That reminds me of a concours wining Jaguar I once saw. It even had the inside of the exhaust pipes chromed and polished! O.M.G.

[MikeC5]

Real nice work Ray. I'll have to try that on door handles, headlight trim rings a cowl light rings.

[Willy]

Does anybody have any photos of the original radiator core?