BearsFan315

1929 Chevrolet International - 4 Door Sedan Project

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here are a few of the metal inset next to the rubber body prototypes

 

also side by side on the pedal plates, metal inset on the left, rubber on the right.

 

 

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20200520_191128.jpg

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question now, is since these are pretty thick, once you install them, IF you try to use the rubber floor mat, then it would bulge around these seals. and not sit flat on the floor. 

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yeah another issue, getting them to work together :)

a few shots of the rubber mat around the pedals in my 1929

 

20180719_174557.thumb.jpg.3a732319b171e8570994f202bb13b5f3.jpg

 

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20180716_174131.thumb.jpg.9bef5067e16a564adfdad7b8061a2839.jpg

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ok, started design of the mold for these seals...

going to be a standard 2 part mold, parting line will be right down the middle if laying flat. bottom half will have extended pins, which are the holes, and line up with the top half which will not have pins, but have through holes for the pins to go in and line up the part. not sure if i should add a third or fourth line pin outside the mold are for alignment. going to pour with the item standing up vertically, and use a 3/16" vent hole next to a 3/16" pour hole with a 3/4" lead in funnel. this should allow me to get material in all areas, vent our any air, and not leave any voids. the metal inset will sit on the pins dead center (float). metal should fit snug on the pins. going to pour using a polyurethane 60. so should be soft but sturdy, supposed to be pretty viscous to pour easily !! we shall find out.

 

any thoughts or comments let me know. 

 

thinking i may move the vent to dead center, or the fill to dead center ?? i know it will need to be trimmed when removed, but that is ok. its rubber ;)

1929 Pedal Seal Bottom Mold.PNG

1929 Pedal Seal Top Mold.PNG

1929 Pedal Seal Mold.PNG

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also have quotes out for rubber, and for cutting the insets.

 

looking at doing 6 sets up front, for testing, that would be 12 of everything.

 

hoping i can get 12 rubber pours out of the rubber batch. 

 

looking at a cost of approx: $25 per seal, or $50 per set for materials only no labor charges. Geesh....

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Jerry, don’t have the metal tight on the pins as it won’t release from the mold easily. We put metal into our parts and experimented with different things to get it right. A slightly larger hole will rest on the beveled area of the screw hole pin and will allow for it to separate easier. Joe used two part urethane and the stiffer product he used was called Shore 70. All our we gravity pours and we had few air bubble issues. You will need to really get a clean mold and use plenty of mold releasing agent for the urethane to flow good. 

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Ted, thanks for the tips. maybe i will open the hole in the met inset a tad an then put a small step or rib step on the pin to hold the metal midway. Yeah the urethane i was looking at is either Shore 60A or Shore 85A (two options). Shore 70A is approx to rubber used in tires (Medium Hard). 60A would be a tad softer/flexible (Medium Soft/Medium Hard). 20A is approx to a rubber band 😛 (Soft)

 

Do you remember brand you all used ?? and was it Shore 70 or 70A or 70D ?? assume 70A for a flexible rubber.

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I'm enjoying the mold process.  Thanks for sharing all your  work with us.  

I don't know if it will help when pouring urethane or rubber, but in our dental practice we pour stone and epoxy models 

directly on a vibrating plate to shake out the air bubbles as we pour.

 

If you slowly fill the mold while vibrating it, the air bubbles rise up and out.  

Like I said, your materials may be heavier, but maybe?

Also, do you warm your molds prior to pouring to let the material flow a little better?

 

When we cast our crowns, those are poured in a vacuum to help pull the air out of the investment.

 

Keep up the great work and good luck with the  new parts.  Do you see a day when all these parts are simply 3-D printed?  Those machines are amazing.

 

Gary

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Gary...

 

i plan to 3d print the molds, and then go from there, probably could do some sort of 3d printing if i had a high end machine that could do metal and rubber materials. 3d printing is a hole new world and great for the old car hobby if applied correctly.

 

the rubber urethane i am looking at is about 1100 cps so it is like pouring 60wt oil. i plan to pour vertical and if i had a vibrating plate i would use it, plan to pour and tap as i go. these are small parts so need to keep the air out. 

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ok, updated the mold models, put in a chamfered corner so i KNOW which way they go, as well as 3 alignment pins. 

 

also put in a step ring on the pins internally to hold the metal inset in the middle where i need it orange rings you can see in the image. going to try using a clearance around the pins, over sized the holes .005, do not want too large as the material will seep in and make it hard to get apart. 

 

hoping this will work for making a few sets. looking to do what i can based on the rubber i am going to order, once it it opened it has a SHORT life. 

1929 Pedal Seal Prototype D.1 Bottom 2020-05-28.1.PNG

1929 Pedal Seal Prototype D.1 Upper 2020-05-28.1.PNG

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Posted (edited)

You’re actually better off letting the metal plate sit right on the bevel. Just open the holes for the pin slightly. If the metal is a little closer to the top that’s good plus the screw will contact the metal in the hole which will allow for it to be more secure. Trust me, don’t overthink it. Ask me how I know! LOL. The urethane comes from Specialty Resin and with the printed mold, you might have some release issues because of the “ribbed” texture the process leaves. Our aluminum molds were super smooth and polished but we were also molding much deeper in the mold than you will be.

Edited by chistech (see edit history)

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Well 3d Printed the first test molds, came out pretty nice. did some fitment tests and some alignment testing.

need to tweak a few things and try again. want to make sure the molds are ready to rock before i start ordering rubber and pouring.

also did a fitment /location test on the metal inset i printed earlier as well.

 

these were printed with a think layer height of 0.3mm and an infill of 25% along with a wall/shell thickness of 0.8mm will go heavier and thinner layers on final mold prints !!

 

20200528_173034.thumb.jpg.375c1d648fe48a6c18e4abf5cfc12aff.jpg

Layer 1 done, Layer 2 going down on the right side

 

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bottom layers complete, now doing an infill, only doing a 25% infill for test parts. no need to waste material and time.

 

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layer one of the bottom of  rubber section being laid down

 

20200528_202450.thumb.jpg.aabe7b781e1a9af207a1f0168fb248d3.jpg

finished 3d printing, came out pretty good !!

 

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spent the weekend tinkering with concepts and trial and error, then ran out of filament for 3d printer, so ordered a new spool that arrive monday afternoon. the first picture are the iterations i have gone through testing and playing around, learned that printing the pins in i kept messing them up or breaking them off, so plan B. Other picts are the latest design, going to try and use external pins that i can push in and pull out the mold (Thanks Ted) also need to put some chamfers on the pins for guidance, and also makes it easier to pull the mold apart. notice the chamfer edges where the two molds  meet, this allows me to insert a blade/putty knife in to separate them.

 

also talked with a few shops and found a place that is working on laser cutting my metal insets out !! said 3-5 days and i should have them, so will post pictures once i get them. excited that everything is coming together. once i get the mold to a happy place (waiting on the stainless steel rod to arrive so i can make pins and test fit.) then i can order a batch of urethane rubber. that will be the last thing then i can start molding a set, plan to make 1 set a at time, requiring 2 molds, one for each seal.

 

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few iterations i went through this weekend

 

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latest iteration, fits nicely together, just need to chamfer the alignment pins

 

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clearly see the through holes for the hole pins

 

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clear view of the leading chamfer for ease of separation

 

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pour in funnel, this is the top, pour in and let urethane rise, pushing out air 

 

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other side view can see alignment pins in the 3 large holes

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ok, so made the tweaks and 3d printed out the latest iteration last night. 

 

while it was printing I got a 12" piece of stainless rod to make pins out of, cut them down to 1.50" long sections and cleaned them up. they fit nicely in the inset holes. ended up making 8 rods, so i that means i have 4 sets. which may be a good number for molding sets. pour 2 sets at a time, i.e. 4 seals.

 

got up this morning and did a few test fits and check alignment. i am very happy with it at this point. remember the test print here is printed low resolution/quality. basically 0.30mm layer thickness with only 25% fill to save material and time.

 

here are some pictures of the test fits and validation...

 

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one set of inset pins

 

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latest iteration of the molds (draft quality) and set of pins

 

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Posted (edited)

so now to test fit the components as they should go together, or my logic and input anyways :)

 

20200603_061404.thumb.jpg.8a1f678684787342b4f59e6186d603dd.jpg

put inset pins into lower half of mold

 

apply mold sealer/release compound to both halves, let set, apply second coat, let set

 

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set metal inset into place on the pins, the chamfers will hold the metal inset centered in the mold and on the pins.

this is a 3d printed version that i colored gray for test fitting and validation, metal ones should be here in a week or so !!

 

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chamfers that hold the metal inset

 

put mold halves together, using chamfer corner and alignment pins to ensure mold is correct

 

20200603_062024.thumb.jpg.1a171e950ddf20394a963ffa73a09ad3.jpg

lower half

 

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upper half

 

this is how it will be poured, standing up...

 

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you can see the metal inset (gray) through the pour funnel

 

then clamp it together and apply a little force to hold the halves together

 

color & mix urethane (coloring black since natural color is milky/amber color)

 

pour urethane in mold, and gently tap/vibrate the mold to help urethane settle and remove air pockets.

 

let set & cure

 

once cured, push out pins, then split mold (hence chamfers along edge so i can get a putty knife in there if needed), remove cast urethane seal

 

clean up flash and trim urethane excess from pour hole/ funnel

 

clean up seal, mold

 

cut split in urethane based on scribe line cast in.

 

test and validate !!

 

sure there will be hiccups and issues along the way, as this is the first time i have ever tried to pour and cast urethane.

Edited by BearsFan315 (see edit history)
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ok, so printed up mold 2 last night. 

 

so now have mold 1 & mold 2, they are prepped and ready, plan to print a total of four molds so that i can mold that as a batch. basically pour 4 seals to make 2 sets. basically takes 2 full day to make a complete set/2 molds.

 

so by Friday i should have the molds all ready to rock and roll.

 

also placed an order last night for the urethane, going with a Shore 60A urethane, also got the black pigment, along with a sealer/release compound. 

 

got confirmation that my metal insets have been cut and will ship today, and should be here by Saturday i hope so i can pour this weekend.

 

getting close and getting excited, need to get some mixing cups !!

 

20200603_170807.thumb.jpg.dc06ab894e6cfbd83c3351c6f2e949a8.jpg

Mold 2 Complete

 

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2 molds complete and ready

 

20200604_060521.thumb.jpg.dbbda9069d728feeaf560747f859be63.jpg

another view

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alright got another 2 molds printed and set up. not have 4 complete mold sets ready to rock.

 

think i may print one more spare set today just in case something goes array.

 

each set is numbered 1-4, each half is lettered a/b

 

was trying to figure out a way to clamp the molds together and hold them, then remembered i have some 4" Harbor Freight Bar Clamps that should work nicely, pondering 1 clamp per mold or two :!

 

urethane is on its way supposed to arrive today (Friday), my mixing cups are scheduled for delivery Saturday, and  insets are on the way supposed to arrive Monday :( so no molding this weekend, was hoping to spend Sunday learning and tinkering. Maybe can tinker with the modling process nd urethane without the insets to see how everything works.

 

20200605_060727.thumb.jpg.39c4e696b583d98ded9dadc2a7617f73.jpg

 

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double clamped, one high one low

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well the weekend got off to a good start... my mixing cups arrive Friday, then Saturday morning i got my Urethane kit (day late but hey), and then later that afternoon i got my package with the metal insets !!

 

looks like i have everything on hand to try to do some pouring/molding. going to be a fun learning experience. 

20200606_184855.jpg

20200606_202951.jpg

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the insets look great !! decided to tinker around and do a test fit or two. mainly to make sure that the insets fit inside the molds, as well as have the clearance around the edges for urethane to completely cover and coat the metal inset. also made sure the chamfers hold the insets in the middle !! need full encapsulation !!

 

everything looks great and fits together as designed.

 

been a lot of trial and error to get to this point, the only thing left to do is mix and pour... and pray :)

 

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metal insets are clean

 

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fit nicely in the molds and over the pins

 

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looking down the funnel, you can see metal inset

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well took some time to do a test pour, this was for pour testing only, see how it mixes, how it pours, cures, etc....

 

i figured i would pour one set, one pure urethane no inset, then the other would pour with the 3d printed inset for validation purposes. want to make sure it will fully encapsulate the inset.

 

did my material calculations... firs was to put a coat of sealer/release on the molds, let set 15 minutes, then another light coat and let sit 30 minutes. mix up the urethrae, then measure out equal parts urethane Part A & urethane Part B. then mix them together into one mixing cup. then our into molds. i filled jut to the funnel so that there was extra material, i tapped and rocked the mold to make sure air was out and urethane was settled. actually mixed and poured nicely. slow and steady is the pace !!

 

20200607_141122.thumb.jpg.d3f457faf551f580a7d6990c3705ddd0.jpg

mold 1 & 2 coated with 2 coats sealer/release

 

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mold 2 with 3d printed inset

 

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mold 1 clamped and ready to pour

 

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mold 2 clamped and ready to pour

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mixed up the urethane

then poured each mold

just enough to fill them both

 

20200607_142733.thumb.jpg.11a2215b4604fe4193fd2704571128d6.jpg

empty mixing cups

 

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mold 1 poured

 

20200607_183524.thumb.jpg.41d5e8315242cc74304c58ad384995f3.jpg

mold 2 poured

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supposed to let sit for 2 ours before handling... i let them sit for 4 hours to ensure that i can handle with out messing them up.

 

was concerned about getting them out of the molds !! pins pushed out like butter, nice and easy, then breaking the halves apart was simple popped them apart with a putty knife and easily separated !! then the urethane part easily came out of the mold , very easily !! 

 

total cure is supposed to be 48 hours, so will see what they look like and how they cure. they are semi soft, not very hard, feel like a urethane bushing but softer. i can easily twist them, but no metal inset in either... so the inset should provide rigidity. 

 

there is some flash, but that is fine with me, easily trimmed up. 

 

20200607_183634.thumb.jpg.fde7963a0ee3dfa915a51456f6cac9c1.jpg

mold 1 separated

 

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urethane 1 out of mold, no inset

 

20200607_183656.thumb.jpg.1474c5d70ec114411e8d31266e81f75d.jpg

mold 1 no inset

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These parts will be white?

 

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mold 2 with inset, same as 1 , easily separated and removed a little more rigid with the 3d printed inset, you can clearly see it in the photos.

 

20200607_183743.thumb.jpg.0ce01099cc91408c48c698974f053aa3.jpg

mold 2 separated

 

 

20200607_183754.thumb.jpg.643ec3543f333d85e8b033a75e0836c4.jpg

pulling urethane 2 out of mold

 

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angle view of urethane 2, you can see the inset, opening closet to view

 

20200607_183807.thumb.jpg.3388168939bf98116f213e96cd70beba.jpg

close up of urethane, clearly see inset in the chamfers

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Posted (edited)

here is a flat of urethane 1 (funnel in tact) next to urethane 2 (funnel removed)20200607_183927.thumb.jpg.d51ade7557ceb69e0de807ce84965ed4.jpg

 

when i do finally molding for use, they will be opaque black with insets...

 

Edited by BearsFan315 (see edit history)
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