BearsFan315 Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 then looking closely, and cleaning up the piston caps, they are stamped "STD", which tells me standard size, and the cylinder walls look like they were NOT honed or anything... Piston Cylinder Wall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 My first old car was a 1936 Chev. Were they the last incarnation of that engine? Anyway, the joke at that time was that Chev heads came from the factory with cracks. Look carefully at all the valve seats. Any ridge at the top of the cylinders? Boy this must be annoying to you. To get so far then find this. I hope it is not too bad and you don't have a full rebuild on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said: My first old car was a 1936 Chev. Were they the last incarnation of that engine? Depending on how you look at it, yes. Chevrolet's improvements were incremental, making it sort of tough to separate them solidly into engine families. Popular lore would have you believe that the 1953 low-pressure engine was the last of the line. In reality, when you look closer, the 1936 207 had three main bearings (effectively 2 banks of 3 cylinders), and the 1937 216 has four main bearings (3 banks of two cylinders). No matter how you spin it, that is a major redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 well taking a few days away as i am planning on going up to Hershey for a few days. walk around the fields, talk to some friends, maybe make a new one or two. initiate talks with local shop here to clean and then magnaflux head as it is off the car. that is where i am going to start. then i will be pulling the engine, and having cleaned, magnafluxed then bored, honed, decked, crankshaft checked and balanced. put in new oversize pistons and rings. validate the valve job or redoing the valves altogether. developed a plan of action and goal is to get it all done by spring. that is if i can afford it. hoping the babbit is good, has only about 30 miles on it or about 2 hours of run time total. they are going to clean out all water and oil passage ways. to ensure good flow is permitted with little resistance. Looks like EGGE is bout the only place to get oversize pistons, pins, and rings for this car. also talked with J&M Machine Company as well as Columbia Classic Cars in regards to rebuilding the engine as well. Open to other options as well, shops that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 12:12 AM, Bloo said: Depending on how you look at it, yes. Chevrolet's improvements were incremental, making it sort of tough to separate them solidly into engine families. Popular lore would have you believe that the 1953 low-pressure engine was the last of the line. In reality, when you look closer, the 1936 207 had three main bearings (effectively 2 banks of 3 cylinders), and the 1937 216 has four main bearings (3 banks of two cylinders). No matter how you spin it, that is a major redesign. Yes, the 1937 engine was a couple of inches shorter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Looking at your photos 1-2, 3-4, & 5-6, and it may be an optical allusion or ..., but 3-4 looks a little suspect around the piston area - did you personally ever check to see if the head was actually torqued down properly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 21 hours ago, John_Mereness said: Looking at your photos 1-2, 3-4, & 5-6, and it may be an optical allusion or ..., but 3-4 looks a little suspect around the piston area - did you personally ever check to see if the head was actually torqued down properly ? yes, i did a retorque before fire up and then again after a few heat cycles. we are figuring either a cracked head or warped. either way it will get cleaned, magnafluxed, and pressure tested, then valve check If valves are good and acceptable for function: clean up and reinstall and seat if NOT; new period correct valves go in), then flatness and machined if needed. then the block will get torn down, cleaned, magnafluxed and pressure tested.bored, honed, new pistons, crankshaft check and balanced, block decked to match head, and whatever else we need while in there. check and validate babbit and line bore, all that good stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 A lot of things have been overheated over time and then people pour cold water into them - sounds like a good plan. You may get by fine with lower end if you stumble into a "for sure" problem when working on the head. What I have found over time is that machine work is generally ok enough, but someone was arrogant as to something they would not take for granted on another car - (ex. late 30's and 40's Cadillac flatheads were also used in tanks so people view them as bulletproof and most magniflux them - yet they tend to crack between the valves in two most rear cylinders) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Jerry, great seeing you at Hershey and thanks for the support on the Olds. I would also check the face of your manifold while you got it apart. I always face my manifolds when doing a head or engine over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 hours ago, chistech said: Jerry, great seeing you at Hershey and thanks for the support on the Olds. I would also check the face of your manifold while you got it apart. I always face my manifolds when doing a head or engine over. Ted it was great seeing you at Hershey and was good to catch up. no problem, that Olds is immaculate !! Poor Joe worked hard to detail, and you got stuck talking to everyone. the guy at the shop inquired about that as well, machining the manifold face on the head as well as the manifolds to ensure everything is FLAT. goingto try and go by tomorrow and drop off the head for them to do their magic. well magnaflux... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) ok, tried to post these pictures last week, but the WiFi at the campground was horrible. (hey trying to keep up while hanging out after dark) You can clearly see the difference in the cylinder walls, there is a clearly defined lip/ledge near the top where the rings do not run. the pistons are sloppy in the bores. do NOT have a mic to measure the inside, but will get the shop to do that for me later, once i pull the block. you can also clearly see the scoring and pitting in the walls as well. Edited October 13, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Did the PO say when the engine was overhauled? 75,000 miles ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 nope was done recently, was few years ago, but car was never driven... car totally has less than 50 miles and 2 hours run time on it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 dropped off the head at the shop during my lunch, and just got a call back, head checks out fine, no cracks and intake and exhaust hold a vacuum. so the seats are sealing. however the head is 'warped like a banana' so he is going to mill the head flat, also check the manifold surface and machine that if NOT flat. also asked him to pull the valves and check the guides and the seats, inspect and check everything and let me know the outcome of the valves and manifold surface... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 If the pistons are sloppy and there is a lip at the top then the cylinders are worn. Needs to be bored out and bigger rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, BearsFan315 said: dropped off the head at the shop during my lunch, and just got a call back, head checks out fine, no cracks and intake and exhaust hold a vacuum. so the seats are sealing. however the head is 'warped like a banana' so he is going to mill the head flat, also check the manifold surface and machine that if NOT flat. also asked him to pull the valves and check the guides and the seats, inspect and check everything and let me know the outcome of the valves and manifold surface... That warped heat might just be the smoking gun to your overheating problem! That banana might be a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 Yeah a warped head may be a good thing vs a cracked head.... head should be done by the end of the week, and for under $500 i hope want him to go over valves even though they hold vacuum to make sure the guides are good , while it is off. then i can pull the block and get that to him and get started on that. trying to do one thing at a time, and plan one step ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Laughing Coyote said: If the pistons are sloppy and there is a lip at the top then the cylinders are worn. Needs to be bored out and bigger rings. that is next after i pull the block and such going to start at 020 and see if we can clean up 90-95% off the walls if not go to 030 new pistons, pins, rings at the least 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestrel Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Jerry, The cylinders on my '32 194 engine were about the same condition as yours before my rebuild. The rebuilder went with .030 over and I recall getting the pistons and pins from Kantor in NJ. Whatever way you go, try to nail down a definitive completion date with the shop. Mine took a year longer to finish than first estimated. And don't lose faith. It will all come together someday and you're young enough to make sure it does ! Hey, it was great meeting you at Hershey ! Too bad we didn't get a picture of you , me and Ted. 😃 Charlie (Hardaground on the VCCA forum) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 thansk, Kantor gets theirs from Egge, heard they have cleaned up their quality in the last few years and are doing good stuff. i may have found a set of NOS/NORS cast iron pistons .020 or .030, waiting for confirmation. I am on top of the shop, they said they could have it all done (minus babbit if needed) in a month or two. if i need babbit i will probably send the rods and bearings to Pauls then have shop here line bore it all and get it going. In the process of removing the engine, man so many things to remove, disconnect, etc... trying NOT to damage anything in the process. was NOT planning on taking any of this stuff out again !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 It stinks Jerry. I took the olds out for a longer ride a day ago and sure enough, after about 10-12miles, it heated right back up and was bubbling. So the hood will come off, then the distributor, then the head and anything else I need. Might have some good news though. I found two head bolts that will not tighten and possibly there's a chance they are the culprit as one is right at #6 where my leak has been coming from. I ordered two head gaskets from Olsons so they should be here soon. I will get it fixed and will be checking things very carefully. With an 87 year old motor, the metal simply could have fatigued with the torque of the head bolts once it heated up so that the remaining threads just pulled free. I will use thread inserts of course and will look at every single hole to evaluate to see if I might put thread inserts in all of them. It's a pain but it's more of a pain to have to do it again. Other than this issue, the Olds drives really good and I look forward to driving it around like I do my 31' Chevy. The show in Charlotte does look interesting and that possibly might be where I go to try and get my Sr. It's closer to FL and possibly my son could come up to see me. He loves car shows and it will be great to hang out with him some. Russ at Paul's is great to work with and he is fast. If your mains do need to be done, I believe they are inserts so you can pull them and send them to him. If your local shop can line bore you'll be golden. I'll be keeping watch on your thread for your progress and any help you might need, just let me know. Just a thought, I was able to locate some oversize rods when I did my 31' engine over for cheap money and that is sometimes another way to go. Paul's is cheap enough though and uses modern materials so that has to be considered too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) well night two of disassembly. man i forgot how many parts i had to put on after the engine went in. going to take a few days to remove everything and clear the path for the drivetrain to come out. Edited October 17, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 well got everything else removed, and engine is ready to be pulled ( i hope and think) should be able to sling it and lift a tad, then pull straight out the front. pulled the radiator core out the shell, and going to drop it off with the radiator shop tomorrow. they are going to give it a once over. flush it out good, check flow and such, then clean it up. figure while it is out again, will have it double checked and validated. the local shop here is one of 2 in the area that build and do custom radiators. been around since the 1940's they build custom radiators, heat exchangers, they are the ones that have the caustic tank that cleaned most of my sheet metal parts. old school shop, very nice people and have been good to me and fellow old car people around the region. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 plan to get it pulled this weekend and then talk with machine shop and see what all they want, so i can take it as it is or strip it down to minimum. going to also see if they can balance the flywheel and such, check surfaces and see if they need to be machined. plan to call them tomorrow and check on my head, and see if they are ready for engine on monday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Radiator is at the Radiator Shop... see what they say about it next week hopefully 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I like Aries pistons https://ariaspistons.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 well spent a few hours in the garage today, stripping down motor and car to remove engine. attended our local AACA region Chili Cook off and hung out for a few hours there. then back home dinner and pulled the engine & Transmission. it is out of car and generally stripped down !! did not take any pictures as i was working too hard and making sure i was doing things safely and correctly. going to load it up and drop it at machine shop on monday. go over things to do and cost to do them. as well as timeline and time frame. once they get to the bore the cylinders i will KNOW piston size. hoping on .020 no more than .030 !! maybe take some pictures tomorrow when i get out there once again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) since i have the engine out for rebuild, the transmission had to come with itI have gone over it and all the gears look great, no chips or damaged teeth.is there anything i should double check replace etcc while i have it outfigure about 6+ weeks while the machine shop has the engine. Edited October 20, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Bearings are cheap items to replace so I’d consider that and check the bushings but most time they’re in good condition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 when i took it apart there was a minute amount of 600w in the front. i know they dribble a little since there are no seals. assume this small amount is acceptable or no ?? i know any dribble out the back goes into the union area. but when i drained the trans i got almost all of the 600w back !! so not much left the main housing !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) here are a few of the engine with sling ready to be pulled Edited October 21, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) few picts of the parts and pieces all over the garage, and just o think i JUST got it all cleaned up and organized with the car together !! Edited October 21, 2019 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Engine Pulled and ready to go to machine Shop on Monday Morning... will also check up and see if i can look at the head while i am there !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 was prepping to take the engine to the machine shop when they called me about my head !! it was ready for pick up. he said it was warped .008 and had to machine off .012 to get it flat and cleaned up. when checking the valves (which held vacuum and passed test) he found that ALL of the valve guides were worn out and trash, and that one of them had been bored out and a larger diameter valve stem was installed so he did new valves guides, and made a new valve to math the existing ones. so now all 12 match. he did a valve job and cleaned them all up, seats were new and cleaned them up as well. also machined the manifold surface. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 dropped off the engine when i picked up the head. went over plan of action, and told him if he needs any parts, call me, any questions, call me, unsure, call me so he knows to call me going to strip it down and clean it up first. then determine required bore to clean it up figure 6+ weeks at least, hoping to have it done and back to me by end of the year !! be my christmas present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Make sure he calls you!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Sounds like you’re dealing with a really good shop Jerry. Funny how people will tell you something is all rebuilt when it’s not even close. My original motor for my 31’ was supposedly gone “completely “ through and I was told how lucky I was to get a car with all the expensive motor work done. Turned out the head was completely fresh and the block bored with fresh pistons so it does have 75# compression but the idiot never touched the rod bearings or mains, all of which are bad. Have that engine sitting on a dolly and someday will fix the issues it has. It ran perfectly but had a knock. But hey, I was so lucky to have gotten a motor “completely “ gone through! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 20 hours ago, chistech said: Make sure he calls you!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh he knows he is getting the friday check in calls !! and they are only 10 minutes down the road from my work, so no answer gets a drop in visit. but they do not mind and will show me what is going on and where everything is at. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) At this point, unless I know the person who was supposed to have done a rebuild, and can ask them what they did, I would not believe any sellers claim of a "rebuilt engine". Even when they are telling the truth - and I suspect most people are truthful - 90% of the car enthusiast world simply can't tell a good job from a bad one. I've had one engine done by a "professional" (this was many years ago)...He came very highly recommended and, in fact, did some Silver Ghost engines. But, on my engine he did some really schlock work. It was at that point I decided that if I was going to pursue old cars I had to learn how to do nearly everything mechanical myself. Edited October 24, 2019 by JV Puleo typo (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 got a call from the radiator shop today... all done and ready for pick up they flushed it and cleaned it out, did a small repair on the filler neck, flow tested it and said it was good, did a pressure test to 20 psi and then painted it black for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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