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Scared of the e15 hype? This will help!


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Overshadowed in yesterday's release of Supreme Court decisions came this one: Supreme Court Won't Reverse EPA E15 Ethanol Rules.

Note:

1. E15 won't become ubiquitous overnight. As Detroit News notes, out of America's 180,000 gas stations, E15 can currently be found at around 24. And since the remaining 179,976 will need to install new blender pumps to sell the stuff, it'll take a while for E15 to appear.

2. No station is required to carry E15, so the adoption rate could be slow. (Though E15 will likely be slightly cheaper than E10, which could hasten the transition.)

3. E10 and lighter blends will remain on tap for the forseeable future. That's because E15 hasn't been approved for motorcycles, heavy-duty engines, off-road vehiclesicon1.png like boats and snowmobiles, or any vehicle from before the 2001 model year.

4. Going forward, automakers are likely to tweak their vehicles to accommodate E15. So, the car you drive today may not handle it very well, but your next one probably will.

5. As hybrid and electric vehicles slowly gain market share, the ethanol content in our gasoline may become a moot concern. After all, if our future cars use less gas -- or no gas at all -- who cares what's in the pumps?

6. If all else fails, close your eyes and think of England, where E10 is still a big deal.

Edited by Dave@Moon
Added emphasis to #3 (see edit history)
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BTW, I deliberately left in the link in the last line quoted to the hyper-inflated story in the conservative newspaper The Guardian re. the tremendous dangers posed by the current e5 fuel (5% ethanol) in England. post-30638-143141968152_thumb.gif There appears to be no limit to the appeal of fear in this subject.:(

Edited by Dave@Moon (see edit history)
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There appears to be no limit to the appeal of fear in this subject.:(

We're dealing with facts here in the AACA Dave. The fact is that there were many automobile and motorcycle enthusiasts on the Washington DC Mall rallying against ANY ethanol based fuels. Our group listened to 5 Congressional leaders stressing the fact that the EPA is overreaching their authority with this issue.

I would say that there are very few members on this web site that have not had problems with our seldom used antique vehicles and/or other small engine problems with ethanol. We do not have the time to empty our gas tanks each time we shut these engines down for any length of time, nor should we have to.

Wayne

Edited by R W Burgess (see edit history)
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We do not have the time to empty our gas tanks each time we shut these engines down for any length of time, nor should we have to.

Wayne

Mom, I don't have time to brush my teeth. I don't have time to clean my room. I don't have time t make my bed..... Besides why should I have to?

Seriously Wayne, if you were a judge hearing cases related to this, and your argument here was presented as a key component of a case against, well pretty much anything, how would it sound? I wouldn't be too surprised that this was presented before the Supreme Court as part of this case, but it would require I thoroughly read the transcript and, well..., I just don't have time.:rolleyes::D

There certainly are facts that make ethanol fuels troublesome, even dangerous in some cases, for antique power equipment. But they are not the only facts to be heard, and frankly trying to argue that fact in the face of what biofuels represent for the future without sounding petulant is almost impossible.

We, all of us, will never stop progress in the name of preserving the past. It's just the wrong tack.:(

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The discussion of ethanol in gas reminds me of the woman who didn't want any animals harmed, so she bought her meat in a supermarket.......

I just had this discussion with my brother, we were discussing electric cars, another case of people thinking that's a good solution, because it's nice, clean, just plug it into the wall. Just ignore the fact that the electricity comes from coal fired plants, or "scary" nuclear plants....

The use of ethanol does not solve any energy crisis, because there is no energy crisis. There's enough oil in the ground for hundreds of years of use. Money should be spent on public transportation and educating people not to drive when they don't have to.

And, it's costing the American public dollars. Corn grown for ethanol means corn not available for food. Food costs go up. Gas mileage goes down, a fact that is rarely mentioned.

Gas prices aren't that much cheaper than if it was 100% gas, in my town I can buy 100% gas for about 25 to 30 cents more per gallon than 10% ethanol. It's a wash, since with straight gas you get about 10% better gas mileage.

And the damage to older cars is substantial, along with loss of ethanol gas if it sits for any length of time.

Sure, move forward with other ideas, I agree.....but be smart about it, don't just follow the political agenda of "gotta do something visible, even if it's wrong...."

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There's no point in arguing the pros and cons of biofuels here, or the supposedly infinite sources of supposedly consequence-free oil there is to be burnt:rolleyes:, and it was not my intention to do so. The Supreme Court decision makes e15 a reality. It will be appearing for sale around the country, probably sooner rather than later.

The reason I said this would "help" is the level-headed presentation of the facts I quoted regarding e15's implementation, in particular the #3 point I highlighted above. There simply aren't going to be any jack-booted thugs from EPA or the Dept. of Agriculture hanging out at the Mobil station to pour e15 down anybody's throat, at least not for a VERY long time. Yes, the idea that your infant grandson would be able to commute to work in a stock 1934 Dodge indefinitely for the rest of his life is probably unrealistic at this point, but really that's about it.

Years from now somebody is going to have to fight for that 1934 Dodge's ability to obtain some source of suitable fuel as "pump gas" eventually becomes inappropriate for it, but that's probably decades away or longer. Starting that fight now would be a very good idea. However if instead everyone wants to re-argue points that everyone involved has already heard ad nauseum as if no one's thought of them before, by all means continue. Just don't be surprised when the outcome isn't good for that 1934 Dodge.:(

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My personal opinion is that there's no comfort in knowing that E10 is still available , per the original post... I don't believe we should have E-anything, as it's both false economy and solving no problem....

OK, I'm from the South, and my real concern is E-100 and no corn for grits!

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And that's why, in Virginia, I have my 1969 Cutlass and 1971 Firebird registered as regular cars, not as antiques.....because it's the right thing to do.

I will tell you, however, that the law you mention is not enforced. I see older work trucks with antique tags all the time, with people using them daily, hauling chainsaws and lawn mowers and other implements of work related destruction...

The law does allow for the occasional pleasure drive, however, and now that I'm retired, any drive can be a pleasure!

I stand by my statement, the U.S. is way behind other countries in public transportation, and we, as a nation, are too quick to drive and too slow to walk, bicycle, or share rides.....

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then why do you keep posting this stuff?

What "stuff"?

Just exactly how many times can you name in the last 100 years that a Supreme Court decision directly involved the collector car community?:confused::rolleyes:

I didn't post any pro- or anti- ethanol stuff here. In fact I've directly refuted the advances of those who would continue that stupid debate, while conceding the negatives re. the use of ethanol in our antiques. What I did do was I posted a link to a major government action that will effect what you see in the near future when you pull up to a gas station with your antique car or daily driver. Others decided to jump in with there deeply thought opinions on the value of decisions that have already been made by people far more educated on the subject than any of us.

The hype-frightened/influenced are not my responsibility. My apologies to those who read this trying to be informed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Despite what many on the coasts believe. E10 is at almost every gas station in Nebraska and has been for about 10 years. E85 is at at least a few stations in every town. I despise ethanol. Its a hype and bunch of BS but around here its everywhere. Different counties and states require different formulas for different seasons but the reason why ethanol is available so readily in the midwest is because a majority of ethanol is produced here. Converting corn into ethanol raises the price of corn which increases the price of our beloved USDA steaks and pork chops not to mention the diesel, gasoline, coal, and electricity required to convert the corn into ethanol. I and many others believe that its not sustainable. Every time the price of corn gets to high many ethanol plants close their doors for 1-5 years until the price comes down. Not exactly a stable business lol. My 2 cents is not to worry about it. When demand for corn gets to high and/or demand for gasoline declines ethanol will seem like it did in the late 70s after the OPEC crisis.

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