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1928 Dodge Victory 6 water pump


28touring
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Don't have it in front of me but pretty sure the water pump esentials are covered in John Bittence's 1 volume CD on the Vic 6 available from DBC. If you cannot locate let me know. I had a machinist rebuild my Std 6 water pump decades ago. Also, have your person tell you specific parts which are not rebuildable. Only thing which comes to mind is the impeller which fits in the engine water jacket?

Paul

Edited by P Bohlig
misspelling (see edit history)
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I cannot say for sure that Romars ROMAR Home Page does these specific pumps, I do know that at one point they were doing 4 cyl pumps.

If it were me I would find out specifcally what was the problem and go from there, usually it is little more than a re-bush and shaft replacement. There is information available to better educate yourself on what all it involves and specific out-lined procedures. A local machine shop with an intelligent machinest could perform the neccesary repairs as well in many cases.

I can possibly send you some info but it would take time to locate.

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As we discussed by phone, these are all rebuildable. Even if the casting is cracked, you can get it brazed. Myers sells the new impeller, which I recommend in any case as re-installing that old cast iron one, after you pounded out the pin and so forth, is likely to wind up a failure down the road anyway. Myers also sells the new shaft, but so does Dave Johnson (see Reproduction Update in the magazine). You can buy the bronze bushings and timken bearings at any bearing or industrial distributor. Any graphite rope plumbing sealer will do for the seal. When pressing out the old bushings, note that one has a flange and only comes out one way. Also make sure you support the casting well and soundly when pressing or it will crack. This (and the master cylinder nose) are the only "somewhat fragile" castings on the Victory Six. The only real "tooling" you may need is a reamer for the bushings to fit the shaft snugly in place.

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My water pump would by many rebulders be considered beyond saving because the interior flange had completely rusted away. A different thread has also been grafted onto one side and an odd size packing nut fitted. The shaft had been made up in two halves and was badly worn. Nylon glands had been used instead of the brass collars but the idea had failed and the pump had been bypassed!.

I resolved the problem by making up a flange from the 'step' formed bottom of an old aluminum spray gun canister. I cut out a suitable hole in the middle and drilled small holes near the circumference to match those in the casting; I then made rubber gaskets to sandwich the new flange in between the two halves of the pump. All the working parts will need to be replaced when I find a better pump to restore but in the meantime, I have stopped the leak with rubber seals. So it can be done - even if it looks hopeless!! - see my 'water pump' post for details.

Does anyone have a restorable 1926 type water pump for sale? The one I am looking for is for a 6 volt car and differes from those on 12 volt cars.

Ray.

Edited by R.White (see edit history)
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One should not say anything is rebuiltable Yes everthing can be fix BUT will it last.

We are the bad guys that said this pump isn't worth to be rebuilt we feel that one would be better off fining another cord.Doing these pumps for the past 35+ years we have had our share of ones that just fix it and not haveing it last long.

Vern (ROMAR)

Edited by Backyardmechanic (see edit history)
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Yes Bill, that looks like the right one. The impeller housing looks like it has not been opened. For the pump to work properly, the internal flange needs to be in tact. Is it available? Perhaps Vern could rebuild it?

Ray.

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Vern fix it?????? Did you read my user name????? Let me take it apart today and I will take some photos of each and every part so others can see how it's put together. I have rebuilt some 100 HP Gould pumps in my day so I have a working knowledge of impeller clearances. Then you can post yours and we will see what it takes to rebuild yours.

This is my only pump at the moment Ray or I would throw it in my son-in-laws luggage on the 14th.

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Sorry Machinist Bill. I didn't mean to offend!!!.

You are probably the most skilled guy on here - but I would not have assumed that you would want to restore the pump for me if I bought it.

That type of pump seems to be hard to come by. If you find another one please let me know - I would be glad to have you restore it. I don't expect it to come cheap. At least it could be smuggled in under cover of darkness!

Cheers

Ray.

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Here is my water pump disassembled and learned that it is not correct for my car. This pump shows a tapered shaft that is for cars A-681435 to Fast four. My Coupe begins with A-565 and should be a straight shaft. This according to the Meyers catalog of pump parts.

You might get this one Ray!

Let me do a little research.........

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Well Jason he did say "Probably" so this still leaves you with top billing........ ;)

Ive seen your skills Bill, but just remember, it can get cold and lonely at the top, not that I would know anything about that!

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Ray,

If you have a 6 volt system the pump is same I can bet you have a early "B" engine.the shaft would be stright on the distributor end takeing a hose type compelling with a hole for a bolt to fasten the compelling,instead the disc.

This pump is for the 124/126 The Fast 4 (128) is located back near the fire wall and is driven off the generator with a long shaft.

Vern

Edited by Backyardmechanic (see edit history)
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Ok Ray I have given this some thought and may have come up with a permanent fix. Because you are 6 hours ahead of me I am not expecting a reply right away. I have attached photos showing the face of your water pump and a photo of what it should look like. There are probably 50 ways to fix this but here is one. Mill the raised portion (Pilot for the impeller housing) face of your pump 0.125" (1/8") Make a stainless disk 1/8" thick the O.D. of your impeller housing and the I.D. of 1.875" (1-7/8") After milling there should be enough room to drill & tap a series of holes for a 6-32 stainless countersink screw. 8 equally spaced holes should be enough. Picture bolting a CD disk to replace your rusted face! Just make sure the disk is 0.005" below the center bronze bushing. The center bushing sets the gap of the impeller to the face.

Use locktite on all the screws and make sure the screw heads are flush with the stainless face. A file or honing stone will take care of that. This fix should last you the rest of your days on the planet!

After looking at this I am going to talk with a seal guy that I know and convert this to a lip sealing setup. I will use the brass nuts for originality but under them will be the lip seals. If your pump needs the bronze bushings let me know and I will spin some out and get them on an airplane on the 15th.

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Ray,

If you have a 6 volt system the pump is same I can bet you have a early "B" engine.the shaft would be stright on the distributor end takeing a hose type compelling with a hole for a bolt to fasten the compelling,instead the disc.

This pump is for the 124/126 The Fast 4 (128) is located back near the fire wall and is driven off the generator with a long shaft.

Vern

Hi Vern! Are you saying that the pump I purchased is for a "Fast Four"? My Coupe is one of the first produced with the "B" engine with the two unit starter/generator. I attached a photo of what I used as a guide for purchasing the pump. Am I missing something here????

post-52313-143141885208_thumb.jpg

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Would you have a photo of this rubber coupling setup? I have searched my books with May 1926, June 1926, and September 1926 and have not found the rubber coupling you describe on any of the water pump distributor drive units. I have seen the rubber disk but not the straight shaft hose arrangement.

Now that I am totally confused it's time to call it a night and wake up tomorrow and work on the Buick............

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The "B" engine was the first 6 volt engine for the DB and the Rubber tube compelling was first used the "B" engine with 3 maine bearing was only used for a few months then te "C" 5 maine engine came when the 5 maine bearing engine was interduced they went two disc compelling.i belive I have a NOS tube compelling in stock will look tomorow.The said compelling looks like a rubber hose but is reinforced with thread like the disc compelling.

But if you had a generator with a taper shaft and the steel compeller for the generator and the Pump one can use the taper water pump shaft and the disc compellers.

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Ok Ray I have given this some thought and may have come up with a permanent fix. Because you are 6 hours ahead of me I am not expecting a reply right away. I have attached photos showing the face of your water pump and a photo of what it should look like. There are probably 50 ways to fix this but here is one. Mill the raised portion (Pilot for the impeller housing) face of your pump 0.125" (1/8") Make a stainless disk 1/8" thick the O.D. of your impeller housing and the I.D. of 1.875" (1-7/8") After milling there should be enough room to drill & tap a series of holes for a 6-32 stainless countersink screw. 8 equally spaced holes should be enough. Picture bolting a CD disk to replace your rusted face! Just make sure the disk is 0.005" below the center bronze bushing. The center bushing sets the gap of the impeller to the face.

Use locktite on all the screws and make sure the screw heads are flush with the stainless face. A file or honing stone will take care of that. This fix should last you the rest of your days on the planet!

After looking at this I am going to talk with a seal guy that I know and convert this to a lip sealing setup. I will use the brass nuts for originality but under them will be the lip seals. If your pump needs the bronze bushings let me know and I will spin some out and get them on an airplane on the 15th.

Thanks Bill for your advise. There was not enough material left to tap into so having made careful measurements, I removed the rusted remains of the raised section completely and installed a stepped plate; using the existing holes to clamp it with. I made up two rubber gaskets. The bushes are fine and so far the pump is working well. I agree with you that the lip seal option is a more reliable option and have had some success in stopping the leaks by using rubber seals. My plan was only ever intended as a stop gap measure until a better core became available - which is where I came in!

The only thing which has not been mentioned is that there are two sizes of rubber discs (if you decide to use that method). If the hole centres of your driver are 2 1/2" you will need the larger 3 1/2" size disc.

Ray.

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