Show me you 64 seat belts!

[Guest Artic64]

Just trying to get an idea of how many styles of seat belts were available for this year.

[RivNut]

From what I've been able to discover, there was one 'factory installed' seat belt for 1964. I'm sure that if the seat belts were installed at the dealership, you might get anything.

Here's what I think is correct for 1964.

[1965rivgs]

Ahhh...EXCELLENT question. Before calender year `64 seat belts were an option. So, at this time (Sept thru Dec `63), Buick most likely offered one seat belt option (without the retractor) with the buckle which Ed pictured above. Starting on Jan 1st `64 seat belts became mandatory/standard equipment. At this time there were two seat belts offered which Buick described as "deluxe" (standard) and the custom belts with retractors (optional). I suspect the standard style belts at this time had a cheapish plastic buckle and the extra cost "custom" seat belts with retractors had a chrome buckle. I dont have much evidence as to the early seat belt style in terms of factory literature but a later (March `64) wholesale car order lists:

Option B1 custom front seat belts with retractor

Option B4 Rear seat belts-deluxe (see note) Note: Code B4 rear seat belts-deluxe-corresponds in color and material as front deluxe belts now standard on all cars

It is interesting to note that the rear seat belt option was added Feb 10th `64

I am assuming at this point the optional custom front seats belts came with the chrome `64 buckle which Ed has pictured above and the deluxe standard belts came with a plastic buckle with a pic of the Fisher Body carriage (as later standard belts)....but assuming is generally not good enough for me or for a definitive answer and I dont have the necessary `64 literature to do any better. I always intend to examine the `64 cars at the national meet and get sidetracked with other questions, socializing, etc...so the research doesnt get done.

It would be helpful if everyone reading this who owns a `64 with seat belts could add some info as to how their car is equipped.

A pic would be great, but not necessary, and the body build date in the upper left hand corner of the Fisher Body plate is needed.

Also,if anyone has a `64 Salesman`s book or a `64 fleet catalogue there should be a reference to the seat belts.

GREAT question...this is the kind of detail which keeps things interesting!

Tom Mooney

[johnrex]

Tom, here are some shots of my '64 seat belts and retractor. I know they are original.

[1965rivgs]

Wow...John, thanks for the post. As evidenced by the 5W on the Fisher Body plate your car was originally built with the B1 custom belts with retractors. As I expected, the custom belt has the chrome buckle but I am surprised the retractor is the type pictured. I expected the retractor to be the floor mounted type which the `65 models were equipped with. Very interesting....BTW, the retractor pictured is the type offered in `65 and later as a dealer accessory to be used with the standard belts. Thanks again for posting!

Tom Mooney

Edited April 23, 2013 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[just Matt]

My 64 has front seat belts with the same chrome buckles and stitched tag as shown above, but no retractor mechanism. I'll have to take a look at the body tag later this evening. I just purchased some Beams rear seat belts for the kiddos, but haven't installed them yet.

[RivNut]

Here are some pictures of the belts that were on my '64 plus some others that I got from Ken at Wheatbelt. Has anyone seen a retractor like this? Ken shipped it to me with the belts I got from him. Even though my data plate says that the seat belts came with retractors - 5W, there were none on the belts when I got the car. The data plate (w/ build date 1st week of July,) blue belt, and the buckle by itself came from my car. The brown belt and buckle, and the retractor came from Ken.

[johnrex]

Here is a scan of my '64 Owners Guide showing the belt and retractor option

[RivNut]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]189816[/ATTACH]

Buick engineers were way ahead of their time, and probably ahead of today's automotive engineers as well. According to the illustration, they were able to over come gravity and have the insert part of the buckle always facing up where it would be easy to get ahold of.

Ed

PS - Are these the same retractors that you can purchase on the Corvette sites?

[just Matt]

Upon closer inspection, my belts have the BROWN-LINE tags. One of them shows a mfg date of 11/11/1963.

[1965rivgs]

Wow, Matt..this is a fine example of automotive archeology. Your car is a very early `64 produced at the end of the first day or beginning of the second day of production! The accessory codes on your Fisher body plate are a carryover from `63 and represent the actual sales codes which were filled in on the wholesale car order. Fisher body changed over to arbitrary codes in Nov of `63 so most of the `64 cars have a much different format than yours. According to the codes your car was originally built with remote control outside rear view mirror (S7) and tinted windshield (I7). If your car was originally built with the seat belt option there would also be a B1 code. Apparently your seat belts were added, probably at the dealer in `64. Your buckle design is correct for `64 but the manufacture date of the belts is later than the manufacture date of your body so they must have been added after your car was assembled. Very cool example of what must have been a very typical scenario back in the day. Thanks for sharing,

Tom Mooney

[1965rivgs]

When I saw John`s post referencing the `64 Owners Guide it reminded me that there are very often several editions of the owners manuals printed thruout the model year and that each manual from before and after Jan 1st `64 may provide some clues. The `65 models had at least 4 editions of the owner`s manuals including an edition which featured Buick`s marine engines. As usual, doing a little digging and disregarding assumptions turns up a surprise or two...

I consulted the owners manuals in the ROA library and also my own and came up with several versions of the `64 Owner`s Guide.

In the beginning of each owners guide there is a part number. If Buick makes significant changes to the owners manuals subsequent versions will carry the same part number and a note as to edition number. As evidenced by the pics (which I hope will upload) Buick likely produced two different retractors in the `64 model year. The earliest is the plastic barrel type which Ed has pictured in his post above (I have NEVER seen this type and assumed it was after market upon initial viewing) and the more typical `60`s type which is a metal bail type which John has pictured. Pay close attention to the part number and edition numbers pictured in the owner`s guides....wish me luck with the uploads...

Edited April 24, 2013 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

Started a new reply for the additional pics because I feared I would time out....

Ed, it appears from the pics in the owners guide your plastic retractors were either factory installed or available as a dealer accessory....or both.

To answer the original question as to how many types of belts were available we need to find a `64 car produced after Jan 1st, `64 with the standard seat belts. This may be tricky because belts were a commonly added item so we will need to see original docs or at least check the date of manufacture of the belts themselves. I`m still holding out that the standard belts were a cheapish plastic buckle which would leave us with the conclusion the `64 cars were produced with two belt types...and two different retractors! Note the edition number in the following pics...

Tom Mooney

[just Matt]

Wow, Matt..this is a fine example of automotive archeology. Your car is a very early `64 produced at the end of the first day or beginning of the second day of production! The accessory codes on your Fisher body plate are a carryover from `63 and represent the actual sales codes which were filled in on the wholesale car order. Fisher body changed over to arbitrary codes in Nov of `63 so most of the `64 cars have a much different format than yours. According to the codes your car was originally built with remote control outside rear view mirror (S7) and tinted windshield (I7). If your car was originally built with the seat belt option there would also be a B1 code. Apparently your seat belts were added, probably at the dealer in `64. Your buckle design is correct for `64 but the manufacture date of the belts is later than the manufacture date of your body so they must have been added after your car was assembled. Very cool example of what must have been a very typical scenario back in the day. Thanks for sharing,

Tom Mooney

Thanks for that excellent info, Tom! I kinda thought that the very early build # and seat belt date didn't seem to jive. I had a feeling it might be a possible dealer install situation. And thanks for explaining the other option codes. I was puzzled as to why the formats didn't match the others in this thread. Thanks so much! Very interesting stuff!

Edited April 24, 2013 by just Matt (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I'm really surprised that these plastic retractors have lasted this long. They're not covers for the wire bails such as John Rex shows in his post, but rather the belts are slipped between two plastic tabs each of which has two large coil springs in them which winds the belt when released. If anyone is interested, I'll take a picture of the inside of one. What I'd really like to see is the instructions for adding these to belts as dealer istalled retractors. ("As long as I'm dreaming, I'd also like a pony." Susie Derkins from Clavin and Hobbes, 1988.)

[JZRIV]

Nice work Gents. This would make a great article for the Riview.

[1965rivgs]

Ed,

Does it appear the barrel retractors can be added to an existing belt? The only illustration I could find of this retractor type is in the accessories section of the `64 owners manual so it is unclear if these were only factory installed or could be added by the dealer. Also, is there a date on the label of the belt which is mated to the barrel retractor?

It is important to keep in mind accessories illustrated in the owners manuals may be outdated pictures and therefore not accurate when compared to actual production cars (that is one change we see in different editions of the owners manuals-updated illustrations). Always best to reference the cars first, then the literature.

Tom Mooney

[Guest Artic64]

I started this thread, but I need to get you a picture of my belts. My car has a Canadian history and my belts have the Fisher logo on the clasp. The webbing is saddle and the buckle is a light cream plastic with the fisher coach emblem. I will get a picture posted later today of the buckle, the label and my data plate. I am liking the information supplied by you fellas!

[RivNut]

Tom,

The plastic barrel is made of two halves which snap together; I've had one of them apart to look at the insides. The problem is this: Ken sent me the barrels along with some belts I bought from him, but the belt to which the barrel is attached was cut off on both sides of the barrel as can be seen in the picture. I have no idea if the barrels came from the same car as did the belt, or if they were off some completely different belt. No dates on the labels on the barrels. But inside I seem to remember a part number cast into the plastic. If you'd like me to check that or pictures of the inside of the barrel let me know. If the barrels were part of the belts that Ken sent to me, the dates must have been stamped on them, but they's since worn off. There's a place for a date, but no date. We're close but we're not playing horseshoes.

Ed

Edited April 24, 2013 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

I'm really surprised that these plastic retractors have lasted this long. They're not covers for the wire bails such as John Rex shows in his post, but rather the belts are slipped between two plastic tabs each of which has two large coil springs in them which winds the belt when released. If anyone is interested, I'll take a picture of the inside of one. What I'd really like to see is the instructions for adding these to belts as dealer istalled retractors. ("As long as I'm dreaming, I'd also like a pony." Susie Derkins from Clavin and Hobbes, 1988.)

Sorry Ed, cant help with the pony. These instructions are from an NOS set of the retractors in question, enjoy,

  Tom

[RivNut]

WOW!  I'll forget about the pony.  Thanks for this.  I'll copy it and put it in the box with the retractors.

 

The illustration shows the belt retractor lying on a bench seat.  Was this same retractor used on the Riviera on the door sill side where the belt was bolted to the floor?

 

Ed