WillBilly53 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) Went to start the 'ol girl yesterday and she was trying for about 2 seconds and then everything went dead. Nothing. No lights. I thought after all the electrical work that I've been working on that I had run down the battery enough that trying to start her just killed the battery. I fully charged the battery overnight. I've been messing around with her all day today but I can't get anything. No headlights, turn signal, radio, dash lights, dome light all dead. I've tested everything with my voltmeter and everything is getting correct voltage. So power is travelling, but nothing is on. Very strange. Any ideas what would cause this?EDIT: fuses and bulbs are still good Edited April 19, 2013 by WillBilly53 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 When you say "everything" is getting correct voltage that flies in the face of reason. Are you saying the headlamp plugs are getting the correct voltage along with the radio, interior lamps, tail lamps etc or are you saying the battery shows the correct voltage.? If it's the latter I'd say to check your your battery cable(s) for a corrosion problem...............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I agree with Bob. Voltage will travel through a dirty connection. Amps will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highcking Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 If you show 12v at all those locations, that only means the battery is supplying emf across the system but possibly almost zero amps. This can only be two things: corroded battery post or ground connection that is allowing only a trickle of current, or the battery itself is no longer holding a significant charge. I would try these two simple steps:1) clean both battery posts and the ground connection, and try the headlights.2) if still nothing, remove the battery and have it load-tested at a Sears, Auto Zone, battery store, etc. It will most likely show no remaining amp capacity.Bill ShieldsLuray, VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Old cables will often corrode at the copper wire/clamp interface. Even if the clamp is clean the corrosion could be internal and inviseable. Spring for a new pair of cables. If your car is 6V make sure they are heavy duty. 12V cables are 1/2 the thickness of 6V cables and will be undersized to carry the amperage required.............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Electrical 101: Electron flow actually runs on the surface of the conductor, thats why copper cables are multistranded, more surface area can carry more current(amps). Voltage is the "pushing" force. A "D" cell flashlight battery carries appx 1.5 volts DC and will run a flashlight bulb while maintaining voltage because of the light load placed on it. Hook that battery up to increasing loads and the voltage drops accordingly, not enough amperage available at the source. Hook it to a car starter and it will drop from 1.5 volts to "ZERO". Conductor size, composition and length determine how much load (amps) can be delivered from source to load. Corrosion effectively reduces your battery cable size from the size of your finger to the size of a hair all the while dropping voltage accordingly. That is why all voltage checks while troubleshooting should be done while loaded, comparing source voltage to load component voltage. This is called "voltage drop" and determines resistance of the conductor, ie: corroded cable or connection. Side terminal batteries and cables are a major pain in the butt, gassing around the post will travel up inside the sealed connections and cables and not be seen. You won't know it's there until it fails to crank like yours did. You will find your problem no doubt. This is not meant to be a "Technical Paper" , just a crude explanation of what you have already been told. Regards, TexasJohn55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 After I upgraded my '67 Chrysler to the Mopar Perf electronic ignition kit, the car started just fine for 4 times in a row, but "went dead" on the 5th try. Same scenario, voltage was where it should be. New starter solenoid didn't help, either. To look at them, the battery terminal and cables were just fine, until I saw a thin layer of gunk hiding betweeen the cable end and the terminal. I got out a battery post/cable end cleaner brush and went to work. When the cable end was removed from the terminal, the thin layer of corrosiion was very apparent, but was not "blooming" into full sight. Clean battery posts and cable ends fixed that situation. Regards,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) The "skin effect" of electron flow on the surface of a conductor is a function of frequency or cycles of alternating current. The higher the frequency the greater the skin effect. Since a battery provides direct current there is no skin effect. Cables are stranded for flexibility in this application.............Bob Edited April 20, 2013 by Bhigdog (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 Excellent replies, thank you all so much. The battery and cable are new, but it was indeed a grounding issue. I wiggled the ground cable around at the motor mount and suddenly everything light up. I surmise that when I tried to start her it shook the ground cable connection just loose enough. Looks like I need to get the sandpaper out, clean up that motor mount and really secure the ground cable connection there. Thanks a bunch for the explanations and electricity 101! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 The "skin effect" of electron flow on the surface of a conductor is a function of frequency or cycles of alternating current. The higher the frequency the greater the skin effect. Since a battery provides direct current there is no skin effect. Cables are stranded for flexibility in this application.............Bob ****Bhigdog Bob, Now that "is" a technical paper and you are absolutely correct on both points, flexibility was a given as house wiring is solid strand. Wouldn't a solld strand battery cable the size of your finger be hard to deal with!? For those who would like more info on AC "skin effect" just google it. Here is a quote from Wikipedia>>>>>>." Over 98% of the current will flow within a layer 4 times the skin depth from the surface. This behavior is distinct from that of direct current which usually will be distributed evenly over the cross-section of the wire." Thanks for the enlightenment Bob. Regards, TexasJohn55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Bob, When you brought up "skin effect", I thought you were going to say that corrosion sets up a skin effect by creating a layer of insulation that prevents current from reaching the inner core. Dang I like learning new stuff! TexasJohn55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 There's a couple of other "skin effects". Usually the higher the frequency of beers the greater the skin affect.................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 She fired right up, but damn if that left tail light didn't go out again! I can not figure that one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 She fired right up, but damn if that left tail light didn't go out again! I can not figure that one out.Ground problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Ground problem?I know, Willie! It's getting kind of ridiculous. I might need you to come to Athens and beat me over the head with a 2 gauge cable labelled "GROUND" to get it through my thick skull. Is it possible the fender itself is not getting good ground?EDIT: Come to think of it, that doesn't make sense, because the turn signals work fine. Edited April 21, 2013 by WillBilly53 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Lesson #587: don't put a 1157 bulb where a 1034 should go. Correct bulb has been inserted and tail lights work! She'll be roadworthy, yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 An 1157 should work, too.I say you've still got a ground issue at the taililghtsSent from my BlackBerry 9370 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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