Thriller Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Happy Tuesday!I almost hate to bring this topic up again, but I'm beginning to work through our registration for South Bend and I've been away from what goes on here and in the Bugle for a while.Has the Driven Class been updated at all to allow for small changes to the car (such as wheels)? If this has not changed, I see two possible solutions. First would be to make some tweaks to the Driven Class to allow for essentially stock cars to participate. The second would be to work with the Modified Division to create a Modified Driven Class (there is no such beast on the registration form on the Bugle wrap). It comes back to me planning to drive the pace car down, but it has Centerline wheels on it (that presents its own challenges, but we don't need to get into that). I am confident it wouldn't place in 400 point and there are suspect points about it that rule out archival, so it is down to Driven Class or Display Only. Sorry...there would also be the Mild Modified...but it isn't really modified enough to do well there. For me, it isn't about bringing home hardware, but it is nice to have mementos that go with the individual cars. Driving nearly 1000 miles to a meet and coming away with a dash card (which fades in the sun and can be easily ruined by moisture or poor packing) is a little weak. At any rate, whether or not this sparks discussion, verification of whether or not my car would qualify for the Driven Class is the issue which is a bit more time-sensitive.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-g-g0 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Derek,Great to see you back on this site! Always enjoy your thought's and posts. I totally support your locgic/concerns as I will have a car (not this year) that will create similiar concerns by next year I hope.Will see you in SB!! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I would say the class of Modified Driven could be reviewed at the National but prior it is probably too late, maybe not. Do you like the Centerlines? Buick road wheels are plentiful in good used condition. 15 x 6 at least and of course they make brand new ones. Maybe consider going that route. But your point is well taken. I have noticed a trend among the younger crowd wherein they will put "22's" on a low mileage 70's Electra. I know this because I am constantly looking for low mileage 70's era Buicks and at least 1/2 of them have these huge chrome wheels on them. Now what if one of those 'kids' wants to bring one to a BCA Regional/Chapter/National meet? Some of us would cringe, but there are at least 1,000 to 3,000 of these cars out there and if the kids are preserving the cars themselves, then I don't want to discourage them. So, maybe it is time for a Modified Driven Class. Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Hadn't seen any of those Electras down here, BUT plenty of Crown Victorias with new paint and 22"+ wheels (which raises them up quite a bit!). It would not surprise me if the rolling stock cost them more than the vehicle did.In many respects, I would feel such vehicles might fit better in a Driven Modified class. Reason is that, by observation, people who make such modifications usually don't stop there, but also have customized interiors, non-factory paint colors, and different electronics in the vehicles, too.When I was configuring the classes for our Mopar club shows, I used a point system to divide "Stock", "Modified", and "Custom" classes. A few minor things, like an additional oil pressure gauge or tach, would not be enough to put the car out of the "stock" classification, as the intent was obvious to "keep it stock". But if they also added additional chrome items under the hood (from stock), and were taking more of a "Day Two" orientation (what you did to the car the second day after you bought it, correct for the period, usually), then that would be "Modified" (or another similar name). Then, if the points accumulation went past a certain point, it was "Custom". "Race Car" could not have license plates or a recent inspection sticker. These point breaks were refined using "intent of the owner" as the main criteria of what they wanted to do with their car. This system worked well for us, but few of the "weekend cruise" orientation understood it, where the rules were much looser.Just some thoughts,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Man getting geared up for the drive there myself...look forward to seeing you there Derek!I'll be driving my "survivor" hopefully with Dad, if it ever gets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadetree77 Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I've often wondered about this topic too. Hypothetically, say I brought my '52 to a meet. What class would it fit into? It's mostly original with the exception of the alternator and conversion to 12 volts by the previous owner. The paint and interior is original(rough but original)and I've recently re-painted the frame, underside, engine, and transmission. Where would it fit in? Sounds like a "modified driven" would be a perfect fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm probably putting my 1990 Reatta in Display only (really the only option for the car due to its age - or lack thereof).I have 16" chrome Riviera wheels, and a tan cloth convertible top which would both be deductions by the current Reatta Judging Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 .....Has the Driven Class been updated at all to allow for small changes to the car (such as wheels)?.....I received a copy of the latest (July 2012) BUICK CLUB OF AMERICA - MODIFIED CLASS JUDGING FORM via E-mail from Keith Horsfall in response to another question I had re: non-Buick engines in the Modified Class. The following is exactly what's printed on the form that I received: ......EACH QUALIFYING DRIVEN CLASS MEMBER WILL RECEIVE A GRILL EMBLEM ON THE SHOW FIELD. TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR DRIVEN CLASS THE BUICK MUST BE 25 YEARS OLD. THERE IS A SEPARATE JUDGING FORM FOR THIS CLASS, ONLY MINOR CHANGES FROM STOCK ARE ALLOWED: CONVERSTION TO 12 VOLT, ALTERNATOR, RADIAL TIRES, DUAL EXHAUST, MINOR SOUND SYSTEMS, AIR CONDITIONING, SOME CHROME ENGINE DRESS UP, DIFFERENT WHEELS.The Buick Modified Division of the Buick Club of America prepares the judging forms and revises it as necessary to ensure fair and impartial judging.Revised July 2012......Al MalachowskiBCA #8965"500 Miles West of Flint" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thriller, As Driven Class Chairman I freely admit to running a loose ship compared to my predecessor. While no specific rules have been changed the class is supposed to be come out have fun and don't worry about all the 400 point stuff. I try to work with Keith (Horsfall), the Modified Division Director to ensure that if the driven class car is modified we quickly adjust it to a modified driven class car (yes that class exists), so that it still gets some recognition. So between the Driven class and the Modified Driven class and Keith and I working together I think the only folks not getting a driven class certification at Danvers and Charlotte have been ones that have their car locked up tight on the showfield, have no spare tire or fire extinguisher, didn't show up for the class, or have a Chevy engine, etc. Anyone with question can PM or email me the specifics and I can help however we can. In my opinion the driven class should be a low stress have fun place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 DerekThere you go (Brians input). There already is a class for this vehicle. I say bring it so I can sit in it and enjoy it vicariously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thanks Brian.So, if I understand correctly, I could register it as Driven class and leave it to you guys on the field.A spare tire has always been a sore spot with me...14" up front and 15" rear implies I'd need to carry 2 spares for size considerations (to date have carried the portable sealant / inflation crap). That's another reason to be rid of the Centerlines.I was forwarded an option for new reproduction wheels...which would probably cost me more than the local pace car which has the original wheels.Teresa just grinned when I asked if we were just going with the Century or if we were taking the Reatta as well.... She has to get serious about passing her road test though.Can I perhaps leave you the keys on judging day to keep Jake from adjusting the seat? :cool: There's not much vicarious living to be had there...a previous life saw the internals strengthened so it performs reasonably well for a mid-70s 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Send me or post a photo now and we can work it out in advance of the show. From the written description the wheels sound fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Interesting about the wheels. I have a 26 year old antique Buick. I bought four NOS wheels, new and still boxes, Buick logo and all:Those corporate shoppers must have figured Flintahama or Flintyo was a suburb:I'm in it for the fun, too.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Brian,Is your ship loose enough to let a car that's only 23 years old in? Teresa just grinned when I asked if we were just going with the Century or if we were taking the Reatta as well.... She has to get serious about passing her road test though.Can I perhaps leave you the keys on judging day to keep Jake from adjusting the seat? :cool: There's not much vicarious living to be had there...a previous life saw the internals strengthened so it performs reasonably well for a mid-70s 350.Aw come on, it's only a couple thousand miles round trip! A perfect maiden voyage! Just make sure you tell Teresa to hit the "E/M" button on the dash when she crosses the boarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Brian - I have photos in an album here - http://forums.aaca.org/members/thriller/albums/1976-buick-century-free-spirit-indy-pace-car-replica/ - from the perspective of Driven class, the only visible change is the wheels and tires. I may still be able to make something happen...in the longer term I do want to have four wheels and tires the same size and would ideally have the correct wheels, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to spend over a grand at this point to get a driven award in three months (yes, that's all it is folks).Marck - 23? Is that the new math they teach? Our Reatta is an '88 model, which is 25 years old, so would qualify for driven class, unless I'm mistaken (which is frequent, apparently...I am married, after all).It is good that we are making progress on this...now need to figure out where I'm pitching my tent there...perused hotel space a bit last night and it is starting to look like slim pickings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Brian - I have photos in an album here - http://forums.aaca.org/members/thriller/albums/1976-buick-century-free-spirit-indy-pace-car-replica/ - from the perspective of Driven class, the only visible change is the wheels and tires. I may still be able to make something happen...in the longer term I do want to have four wheels and tires the same size and would ideally have the correct wheels, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to spend over a grand at this point to get a driven award in three months (yes, that's all it is folks).Marck - 23? Is that the new math they teach? Our Reatta is an '88 model, which is 25 years old, so would qualify for driven class, unless I'm mistaken (which is frequent, apparently...I am married, after all).It is good that we are making progress on this...now need to figure out where I'm pitching my tent there...perused hotel space a bit last night and it is starting to look like slim pickings.My 1990 convertible which I will be driving (unless I can get my '90 Maui Blue/grey coupe in nice shape first) is 23 years old. 2013-1990=0023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 It depends on where you want to park and who you want to park next to. Driven class is all years, is sometimes in a remote (from the judged cars) location, judging is on a different day; but you get some good driving conversation with nice people: "Hey Ben, how many miles did you drive that '50?". Display is next to the judged cars of your class; also good conversation: "So why did you paint it pink?"Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 This guy parked next to me at the 1981 Nationals in Sandusky, Ohio with a fresh paint job on his '64 Riviera. He felt my vinyl top was incorrect; shooda seen the paint job!Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest papaw Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 So, if someone wanted to drive in for just a day, could the car be entered for the driven class and what day??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 So, if someone wanted to drive in for just a day, could the car be entered for the driven class and what day???Yes, For 2013...Saturday, on the field by 10am (I think, earlier the better of course). In theory, someone who lives within a mile of the showfield, could drive the entire distance to the meet and get the award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 It depends on where you want to park and who you want to park next to. Driven class is all years, is sometimes in a remote (from the judged cars) location, judging is on a different day; but you get some good driving conversation with nice people: "Hey Ben, how many miles did you drive that '50?". Display is next to the judged cars of your class; also good conversation: "So why did you paint it pink?"WillieWillie, there has been some discussion about intergrating the drven cars in with the 400 pt cars on the showfield. Potentially this could happen as soon at this coming meet, but at the moment no final answer decision. All can feel free to comment on such and i'll make sure all of us talking about it see the comments. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Brian - I have photos in an album here - http://forums.aaca.org/members/thriller/albums/1976-buick-century-free-spirit-indy-pace-car-replica/ - from the perspective of Driven class, the only visible change is the wheels and tires. I may still be able to make something happen...in the longer term I do want to have four wheels and tires the same size and would ideally have the correct wheels, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to spend over a grand at this point to get a driven award in three months (yes, that's all it is folks).Marck - 23? Is that the new math they teach? Our Reatta is an '88 model, which is 25 years old, so would qualify for driven class, unless I'm mistaken (which is frequent, apparently...I am married, after all).It is good that we are making progress on this...now need to figure out where I'm pitching my tent there...perused hotel space a bit last night and it is starting to look like slim pickings.FYI talking about the wheels with the driven class assistant chairs and Keith, have an answer shortly. Just want their opinions to make sure I'm not missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest papaw Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thanks Brian for the answer as I seen in an earlier post driven class and show day was different and wanted to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Also, there was a comment about "all years" in nthe driven class. To my knowledge it is 25 years or older, or 1988, as I understand. There was also a coment about Reattas. I think I understand. If they are judged with class judging they are in, but under "Driven" only 1988s would be included on the 25 year limit. Please correct me if I am not clear on that.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Yes John...that would be what led to my confusion about Marck's comment...I thought he was talking about my car, which qualifies, but he was talking about his, which would not.I like all the cars together. That way nobody feels left out by parking in another location, particularly if it is far enough or separate enough that spectators or participants might miss seeing some interesting cars.As a judge myself, the complaint about having "extra" cars in the class making it harder to find, that is what the different colour (note correct spelling ) window cards are for. Judges, particularly team captains, should quickly be able to determine which cars they are to judge with entry numbers and all. It isn't rocket science. Some people just like to complain (been there and done that myself, still working on improving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Well, I guess it all depends about the parking. I kind of liked Batavia where for all practial purposes, the 400 point judged cars were on the paved lot on the side of the building where the driven class was on the grass in front of the hotel entrence, which I think made for a nice presentation.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 John,We had a long list of volunteers who did a great job in Batavia. The driven class really was a nice spot:And the show field couldn't have been better:Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Thanks for saving the photos. I think that is my Riviera two cars above the ezup tent. And my other car is pretty well hidden in the front row. Some nice memories there.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 This has been reassuring to me since I plan on entering my 1937-41 again. "Again", since it was promised to be able to be driven to Concord last year but the shop did not deliver till mid-September. Delivered, since they did not trust it to be driven the 60 miles back home. They said it just needed a little "tweaking" which I have been doing ever since. (Finally did a 25 mile trip this past weekend)! I had tried to keep the car as original as possible. But it is what it is.. As I wanted .. a driver. It looks like a used car from 1950. Old black enamel paint over Hampton Gray, covered over upholstery, bumpers and guards re-chromed...OUCH $$$. I re-painted the rear half of the underbody and frame and detailed the engine a bit. Mechanically.. engine bearings adjusted, oil pump, fuel pump, water pump, carb, new fuel lines cleaned /sealed tank. Cleaned and tested radiator. New brakes/lines seals etc. new transmission gears/bearings. Rebuilt front end and new tires on correct 37 rims freshly painted. New wiring harness (which I believe I finally have all the dirty contacts cleaned and correctly replaced). All so I can "RELIABLY" get to and from South Bend! So the wood-graining, running board rubber,headliner and all the bad glass are the only original features left. So the driven class is the class for me! Brian.. You need another judge? I signed up last year and was moved to another class. Larry 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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