A plea to anyone that is going to be showing a vehicle, or vehicles, at an AACA Meet.

[Shop Rat]

If for any reason you, or someone you designate, can't remain with your vehicle PLEASE leave a note as to how to reach you or where you can be found if you don't have a cellphone. Tell the person sitting with their vehicle next to yours. Please don't just leave. I just had a class at the Charlotte Meet where the owner/owners left the car and didn't leave a fire extinguisher out anywhere, trust me we looked. I was not going to open the black bag that was between the two folding "Soccer Mom" chairs to see if it was in there, that is private property. We point judged the car anyway just incase the owner showed up before we left the show field. They never came back, the person sitting with the next car over had not seen them at all. The owners had left before they got there. Not having a fire extinguisher is an automatic disqualification. My team and I gave them every chance and had no choice but to disqualify the car at Administration when I turned in the paperwork. And the rule is you must have a fire extinguisher with each vehicle you bring to an AACA Meet. Not one for all the vehicles you bring, you are not allowed to move one from vehicle to vehicle. And you can't borrow one from your neighbor's vehicle that has just been judged or will be judged after your vehicle is judged.

[Barry Wolk]

That's interesting. The only one of 60 or so Concours we've been in have required a fire extinguisher, and that was just in February At the Boca Raton Concours. I understand the logic in an AACA setting as the cars are started for mechanical judging. In a Concours setting that is very, very, rare. You are rarely even asked to raise the hood.

What I truly don't understand are the people that don't stick with their cars. For us, it's more about interacting with people than anything else. One of us is at the car at all times, except at lunch.

How do AACA events handle people leaving their hoods up? Is that normal? I find that Concours discourage the practice as it's really just a beauty contest.

[MCHinson]

Barry,

AACA Does not start vehicles for mechanical judging. AACA Judging is conducted with hoods and trunks open. The fire extinguisher rule is simply a safety rule. The rules are the rules. Most owner's stay with their cars. Some owners leave their cars because they are elsewhere judging other vehicles or doing other jobs related to the hobby. Some people may have other priorities, but most owners tend to hang out with their cars during a show. There is, however, no requirement that they do so.

[Barry Wolk]

My only experience with points-judging was a singular LCOC event, so I didn't know.

[Shop Rat]

We did have one car in the first class we judged, we judged two as the classes were both small, that was owned by a fellow judge. He left a very nice printed out from a computer note telling us that he was judging and giving us permission to do whatever we needed to do to judge his car. And at the bottom was his name and cellphone number. Now that is how it should be done. Had he been the one that did not have a fire extinguisher displayed as is required I could have simply called him to verify if he had one with him and where to find it.

[ted sweet]

what if the owner of car next to it had moved his extingusher to the cars front tire?

[Shop Rat]

what if the owner of car next to it had moved his extingusher to the cars front tire?

If you are asking if possibly the owner next to the car had taken the extinguisher and used it for his car as in borrowing it and didn't put it back? I suppose that is always possible, but I would have no way of knowing that. We looked all around the car and in the car and none of us found the extinguisher if there was one. I went out early and checked and all the cars that were there that showed up (we had two no shows - one in each class), with the exception of the one car, had their extinguishers out to be seen and they were all fully charged. The owner of the car without an extinguisher had opened the hood and the trunk, set their two chairs out and that large black nylon bag and left. They didn't even take the paperwork out of the envelope which was laying on the dashboard. Since the guy that was sitting closest to the car had not seen him, and he was close enough to have seen if the person was there and he said he never saw the owner.

If you are asking if it would have been okay for the owner near the car to have moved his own extinguisher over to help the guy out, we are not permitted to allow that. It is a hard and fast rule for safety reason to protect the vehicles.

Anyone that has been around a vehicle fire, and I have been with a friend's "new to them" antique car knows that the extinguisher can mean the difference in saving the vehicle or watching it be ruined. The friend had just gotten the car and brought it to our Region's local show. He forgot to put an extinguisher in the car. It caught fire when it belched back gas through the air filter and that caught fire. The guy, an elderly gentleman, jumped out and raised the hood and was trying to beat the fire out with his jacket. Luckily we were still there with our motorhome and it had two fire extinguishers in it and one was used to put out the fire. The man was able to drive the car home. Lesson learned.

It isn't just some silly rule enacted by the National to be dodged around. Once when I was a Deputy Chief (that position was eliminated a number of years ago) at the Hershey Meet I waited by a man's three cars while his friend went into the flea market to buy two working fire extinguishers. The man showing the cars only had one extinguisher. He had even called the National to ask about the rule since it was his first National Meet. And he thought they said "an extinguisher" so he brought one. His cars were stunning and I didn't want for him to be disqualified. He was with the cars and we could do something about the situation. He was very grateful for my efforts to help him out. I was happy to help him. (My feet didn't like me much though after standing that long on them. )

Edited April 8, 2013 by Shop Rat
Added information (see edit history)

[LINC400]

I will be at my first AACA meet being judged for points in the HPOF class this spring. Usually I do not remain with my car because I do not have it judged, and do not feel like just sitting next to my car for 8+ hours. I like to walk around and see the other cars there and talk to people. Does AACA at least give some sort of estimate as to when your car will be judged, like 1970-79 will be judged from 1:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m., or are you just expected to sit next to it all day and never move?

[R W Burgess]

............... This whole discussion about fire extinguishers and sitting next to your car during judging just reinforces the reasons I have no interest in AACA judging. It reached the point long ago where the minutiae in the rules took all the fun right out of it. I just don't want to be bothered with something that's too serious to be fun. If you want young people to join the club and take part, you might give some serious thought to organizing shows that feel more like fun and less like work.

This issue is being taken completely out of context guys. The "Fire Extinguisher" rule is prominently displayed on the Pre-Registration Sheets, the Score Sheets, the Web Site, and I'm sure on every street corner of the AACA world. We do not expect you to sit by your car at National Meets , unless you want to enjoy the raves over your vehicles, and or the thanks for bringing it out. There is also a short pre-meet new owner orientation meeting to help new members understand our judging rules.

Thanks,

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

I need to add one more comment!

For any region/chapter hosting events, including National Events, it would really be nice if your hosting group would consider having extinguishers for sale. It will keep the show participants happy and may even add a little to your club's treasury.

Wayne

Edited April 8, 2013 by R W Burgess
added a word..and another one. (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Wayne is right, making too much of this....We ask the owner to be around his car for judging which usually is done in a very tight frame of about two hours. Every one who shows a car understands the exact time judging starts. It is simply a matter of staying with your car for that short of a period of time and hopefully during that time you can let the public have the pleasure of learning more about your car from the real expert...you!

[old car fan]

I think the only thing said is you must have a extinguisher..Most shows I go to require them.You do not need to be there ,but contact info,if needed, would be nice.I also look at the other entrys.I think Shop rat and most are just giving some great info,or a heads up.Simply said ,he may have got a award,but could not find the person showing the car.I agree.

[Bhigdog]

Wow! Everyone must have too much time on their hands to fret over this tempest in a very small tea pot. Like it or not extinguishers are felt to be necessary by management. So, no big deal. They cost about the same as a couple of gallons of gas and just maybe might come in handy some day.

Don't like hanging around your car all day? So don't. I don't recall any rule saying the owner MUST be present during judging. I missed being with my car at my last meet and got back as the next car in line was being judged. When the judges had a break between cars I approached and explained I missed being with my car and were there any questions they might have. The captain was very pleasant and said they had judged the car just fine without me. I've never met a snotty judge, most are too nice.

Shop Rat's just trying to be helpful and obviously is.................Bob

[keiser31]

I, for one think it's a GREAT rule! I would WANT every car to have an extinguisher. Chances are that if one car catches fire in the judging lineup (or any other lot), another or two may get damaged. Wouldn't you want you neighbor's car to have one, too?

[Chris Coon]

If you ever parked next to a Stanley at a show you would be looking for extra fire extinguishers

I usually try to leave a little extra space if possible

and always have an extinguisher ( which, thankfully, have never had to use) nearby

[Shop Rat]

.....Shop Rat's just trying to be helpful and obviously is.................Bob

Thank you Bob, that is exactly what I am trying to do, be helpful. If people don't want to stay with their vehicles that is okay. But please leave a note as to how to get in touch if needed. I needed to find the owner and did my level best to avoid his/her car being disqualified and I couldn't keep that from happening. Maybe they only wanted a good parking space. If that is the case they should have put it on the field as a "Do Not Judge" entry. It would have saved my team and I a lot of time in the sun point judging their car for no reason. We put forth the correct effort and they didn't.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Many years ago, my '67 Ford Galaxie 500 caught fire as I pulled into a 7-Eleven, next to a laundromat. Both had all glass fronts and, as I watched the flames spread from the engine bay, my main concern was that the car would explode and take out the store fronts before the FD arrived. By the time they showed up both front tires were ablaze, but the fire didn't make it to the gas tank. Lost the car, but was terrified of what could have been my liability.

Think of an extinguisher as extra insurance against damages.

(by LINC400) I will be at my first AACA meet being judged for points in the HPOF class this spring. Usually I do not remain with my car because I do not have it judged, and do not feel like just sitting next to my car for 8+ hours.

LINC400, in HPOF (and DPC), your car is "Evaluated," not judged, but the owner still should be there to answer any questions the Team Captain may have regarding its authenticity, etc. Judging always begins at 11AM, so the window is short for your required presence, and you can always leave a note with contact info if you can't be there.

I was judging at Charlotte, and left a note on my DPC window card stating that, along with permission to open doors and my cell phone number. I drive the '57 Buick a lot (having regular insurance on her), and keep the extinguisher in the backseat floor board. The way the new gas plays havoc on our fuel lines, having it there is inexpensive peace of mind (ever-mindful of the loss of my '67), and it's always there come show time.

With that past personal experience, all this seems like a no-brainer.

TG

Edited April 9, 2013 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[LINC400]

I have no problem with the fire extinguisher. I already have one. Besides, a friend's car caught fire out the the blue once and it took 3 extinguishers to put it out, and it still suffered a couple thousand in damages, but it was repairable.

I just didn't want to be stuck sitting next to my car all day, and not be able to do anything else. But if there is a time window given for judging or evaluating, that should be fine.

Edited April 9, 2013 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[mrspeedyt]

I carry a 5gallon bucket with a 20bc extinguisher, flares, triangles, and tow rope. I move it to the car I am driving. (I drive only one at a time...) and a 2 liter 7up can be useful too in case of a fire.

Edited April 9, 2013 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[Shop Rat]

.....Judging always begins at 11AM, so the window is short for your required presence, and you can always leave a note with contact info if you can't be there.TG

The exception to the 11 a.m. start time is Hershey. There judging starts at 10 a.m. And leaving a note with contact information for the Team Captain if the owner/owners can't be there or choose not to be there is all that is required. If someone doesn't want to leave that information out in the open, put the note on the front floor board of the vehicle and we will find it. Write Attn: Team Captain on the back side and put the information side down.

[CarFreak]

That's interesting. The only one of 60 or so Concours we've been in have required a fire extinguisher, and that was just in February At the Boca Raton Concours.

Other than some oddball non-club shows, pretty much I attend require extinguishers.

As for Concours events, it appears many of the 'big' events don't but these Concours require extinguishers:

Sonoma: Entrant Invitation | Marin Sonoma Concours 2013

Misselwood: http://www.endicott.edu/~/media/EventConfMediaLibrary/MisselwoodConcours/PDFs/registration%20form%202013.ashx

Capital: http://www.theconcours.net/pdf/2011-niello-concours-capital.pdf

Salisbury: Application « Salisbury Concours d

San Fran Presidio: http://www.sfconcours.com/pdf/09Entry_FormPresidio.pdf

Cottage Grove: http://cottagegroveconcours.org/sites/default/files/Concours%20Application.pdf

Palo Alto: Palo Alto Concours d'Elegance - Classes & Rules

Newport: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CEcQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxa.yimg.com%2Fkq%2Fgroups%2F18865109%2F1619790919%2Fname%2F2011%2BEntry%2BForm.doc&ei=_cdkUZmOG-7I4APVx4DQDQ&usg=AFQjCNH_6xrF7XQpdesOAjsGASPuS8TC6A&bvm=bv.44990110,d.dmg

Boca Raton: http://www.bocaratonconcours.com/bocaratonconcours/Car_Entry_Form.pdf

Forest Park: http://www.hccmo.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/2013eastershowflyer.pdf

San Luis Obispo: Entry Standards and Rules | www.sanluisobispoconcours.com

Hillsborough: http://www.midpenmusclecar.com/images/CarShowApplication2007.pdf

Muckenthaler: http://www.socalcarculture.com/Images/051511MuckConcours.pdf

Keeneland: NOMINATION_FORM_2012

1000 Islands: http://www.abm.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Concours-Entry-Standardsedited.pdf

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Like many other threads, this one has deveiated from the original intent, which was...... If you can't stay with your car, leave contact info. On the question of fire extinguishers, rules are rules.

Ben

Edited April 10, 2013 by R W Burgess (see edit history)

[ted sweet]

sounds like owner wasnt interested in judging and or awards

[ted sweet]

my point was what if owner says i will be right back its in the trailer, but instead gets in from a friend whose car isnt being judged at that exact moment.

[R W Burgess]

my point was what if owner says i will be right back its in the trailer, but instead gets in from a friend whose car isnt being judged at that exact moment.

Ted, we would expect all show car owners to be upright, honest, and true to the hobby, as they are to life.

[West Peterson]

I carry a 5gallon bucket with a 20bc extinguisher, flares, triangles, and tow rope. I move it to the car I am driving. (I drive only one at a time...) and a 2 liter 7up can be useful too in case of a fire.

The soda pop is a great idea. If you have a fire caused by a wheel bearing, most fire extinguishers will put the fire out momentarily, but does very little to cool off the overheated metal, which will catch the grease on fire again and again until the car is up in flames. A soda can be shaken up and sprayed onto the heated area, and the liquid will cool it so it won't re-ignite.

The reason an "un-cola" is recommended is because it has no coloring. However, I suggest using a diet un-cola, because there is no sugar in it. If you can get a fire out before it causes damage, clean up will be much simpler. I'm not a chemist, but I know that sugar likes to burn, so it's possible the sugar in the soda would exacerbate the problem????

[CarFreak]

Jay Leno spoke at the Kruse Auction many years ago and explained why fire extinguishers should NOT be upholstered to match the interior of a vehicle.

He was out driving in a freshly restored Duesie(?) or other Cla$$ic when something caught fire under the hood. He knew there was a fire extinguisher in the car but couldn't find it. Fortunately there was a convenience store so he ran in and grabbed several 2-liters which he used to put out the fire. Of course, he paid for the beverages when the commotion subsided but from then on, Jay explained how he made sure extinguishers were easily found in his cars.

[old car fan]

Susan was correct in posting this,But there is no reason not to keep a extinguisher at all times.Should be mandated,just common sense.Home ,car or shop?I came real close to burning up a Willys Knight.After that,i have what we need.Old cars burn as good as the rest

Edited April 12, 2013 by old car fan (see edit history)

[keiser31]

I have experienced two under-the-dash fires in my '31. I carry an extinguisher at all times, now.

[old car fan]

I think the point is made,great info,why disregard it.Thanks