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The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL


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Good catch.  My car does have a Bedford Cord interior.  That was also my guess on the stamped letters, but I'm surprised there are only four, not six.

There are also stamped letters on little bosses on either side of the engine number, does that bring the total up to six?

Edited by ply33 (see edit history)
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I have found the information David Hochhalter sent me about the DC. At the engine number, a suffix A= 0.020" oversize cylinder; B=0.010" undersize crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. AB = both of the above. These should not be confused with the letter size of each cylinder bore stamped adjacent to the engine number and in line with.

 

So are you sure they are P and not B? The wee bosses are probably stamped with cylinder bore sizes.

 

The next question is obvious: what does each letter size denote? The info. from David H. was from a service bulletin.

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I have found the information David Hochhalter sent me about the DC. At the engine number, a suffix A= 0.020" oversize cylinder; B=0.010" undersize crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. AB = both of the above. These should not be confused with the letter size of each cylinder bore stamped adjacent to the engine number and in line with.

 

So are you sure they are P and not B? The wee bosses are probably stamped with cylinder bore sizes.

 

The next question is obvious: what does each letter size denote? The info. from David H. was from a service bulletin.

The engine group of the '28-'33 Plymouth master parts list has some information about the under/over size bearings/cylinders based on letters on those bosses. Might be the same as for Dodge as they used the same engineering and production teams. You might want to check the parts book for your car to see if they are described there.

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The engine group of the '28-'33 Plymouth master parts list has some information about the under/over size bearings/cylinders based on letters on those bosses. Might be the same as for Dodge as they used the same engineering and production teams. You might want to check the parts book for your car to see if they are described there.

I can't see them with a quick scan through the Dodge Brothers master parts list for all models up to 1934. What section are they in the Plymouth parts book?

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I can't see them with a quick scan through the Dodge Brothers master parts list for all models up to 1934. What section are they in the Plymouth parts book?

Beginning of Group 9 (Engine) after the pages of cut away pictures of various year engines, before the actual start of part number listing, on a page titled "Identification of Engine Numbers". It is basically there so you can figure out what replacement parts (standard/under/over size) you will need to order for your engine.

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So are you sure they are P and not B? The wee bosses are probably stamped with cylinder bore sizes.

 

 

Upon a closer look, I believe you are correct - they do appear to be the letter B.  The bottoms of both letters are faint, but you can see the beginning curve of the B.

 

IMG_6296a_zpszfsrg30c.jpg

 

IMG_6293a_zpsceiaymuz.jpg

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Your crown wheel is held on the carrier by the same system as the 1930 DC. Were all the lock tabs up and the bolts tight when you looked at them?

 

One of the bolts broke in my DC. Luckily the broken-off head fell down and was pushed through the back cover (hence the oil drained out) rather than going through the pinion gear. Every tab was in correct position and every bolt was loose, not even finger tight. No wonder one broke. The cover had been repaired after a previous similar failure, as had one of my spares. My thinking was it was a systemic failure so I used Unbrako bolts, drilled, torqued and then tied in pairs. Luckily it broke going over a speed hump at 5 mph in a car park.

 

I am enjoying your restoration, not least because the car and its systems are so similar to the DC.

 

Spinneyhill, I took a look at my crown wheel in preparation of buttoning up the rear axle.  I don't doubt your problems, but I'm darned if I can figure out what happened in your case.  I checked each bolt on my crown gear carefully.  None had broken or seemed the least bit loose and all the tabs were bent up tight against the bolts. 

 

IMG_6316_zpshqo2nfax.jpg

 

IMG_6318_zpsoszybcyh.jpg

 

Were your tabs also bent up against the bolts after the breakage?  I don't see how any bolt could be loose if the tabs were up unless someone bent the tabs down, loosened the bolts and then bent the tabs back up.  I can certainly see how a bolt head might break off, but fail to see how any bolt could  loosen up.  Or did I misread your original comment?  That's been known the happen on my part quite often! :)

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No, you are completely right. I have thought about it a lot and cannot understand how it happened. The hard part to understand is that the cover damage indicates it has happened before. All of the lock tabs were hard up against their bolt head. My conclusion is that they are not torqued up enough and thermal changes many times have had an effect somehow.

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Yeah, I saw that. I don't think it is complete, which is probably why the bidding is so low. Can you tell what's missing?

Looks like it is missing the "extension pin" and "spacer", photo attached. I had to go look at mine to be sure as I don't need those two pieces to adjust the brakes on my Plymouth.

post-76060-0-50740200-1437625346_thumb.j

Edited by ply33 (see edit history)
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I didn't need extension adapter on 30 DA, easy part to make on a lathe, with your talent!

If you decide to get the that AMMCO 1750 (the price seems reasonable at the moment) and you need either of those two pieces I could "mike" mine and send the dimensions. Like 30dodge35 writes, should be easy parts to make on a lathe.

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Well, I bit the bullet and bought the EBay item 30dodge35 kindly pointed out.  I ended up paying just north of $190, which is more than I wanted to pay, but seeing the ridiculous prices these things are bringing, I guess it was somewhat of a bargain.  Someone bid $189.00 with seconds to go, but I idiotically bid quite a bit higher than that with 2 minutes to go and he didn't go high enough.  For a while I thought it was mine at $137, which would have been a bargain.  Thanks for the generous offers of site members countrytravler and 30dodge35, who offered to loan me theirs.

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Well

You got a bargain at that price

I paid $300 for my set and it is worth that in the time and accurate adjustment of eccentrics on brakes I you see you need extension send a pm

And I will send the you can make one from it

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I'm unclear (from the 1750 instructions I found online) what the extension pin does.  It was mentioned above by several members that I probably don't need it, and I couldn't find it in the instructions.  From what I can see in the pictures of the unit I bought, I have the parts to measure the diameter of the drum and what I need to adjust the shoes.  Am I missing something - mentally and/or needed parts?

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No

It states in instruction after measuring drum

step 7

Remove the pin then set adjustment to half size install extension and spacer to take up space ion on axle between nut

But on the dodge you are able to get close to the shoes and it is not needed

I think with larger brakes with larger axle you would be further away from shoes and would need extension to reach and would not need spacer

It will be clearer to you once you get tools in your hand and on brakes

My drums were 60 oversize and I left adjustment as measured and installed drum with a little less clearance

Once you bleed system and depress brakes

Since you have slot then you can recheck for clearance

Edited by 30dodge35 (see edit history)
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For what it is worth, I originally attempted to set the shoes by dialing in the half and the clearance but was not happy with the result. I find it easier to set the radius of the drum on the tool and use a feeler gauge between the tool and the shoe to set the heal and toe clearances.

 

And you won't be successful, at least I wasn't, unless the shoe is arc'd to be pretty close to the same radius/diameter as the drum. Without a lot of fancy tooling, I found I could get that pretty close by getting a roll of sticky back sand paper at my local hardware store. I cut lengths to go inside the drums and then slid the shoes back and forth until the shoe facing was uniformly sanded. (I marked the facing with a magic marker first to be able to see where material was being removed.) That got my shoes to be the drum radius minus the thickness of the sand paper which for the paper I got was a little off what an official machine would have done but seems to be close enough. Each shoe is, of course, sanded to match the drum it will be installed in.

 

Never had a decent pedal until I arc'd the shoes to match. Now it is nice and high and I can lock the wheels if I need to.

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The sanding idea sounds interesting.  I assume you were able to keep the shoes flat enough against the drum to prevent a wedge shape to a cross-section of the lining.  I always seem to have a problem keeping the surface flat against the abrasive when sanding.  Do you remember what grit you used?

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I like the idea of sanding also

With the tool in place you can see the shoes are not perpendicular to the plate and axle

I would like to suggest before sanding

To bleed and activate pedal a couple of time

This will seat all mechanism in place

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I think I misunderstood ply33's post.  Are you sanding the shoes off the backing plate by sliding them back and forth inside the drum, or are you putting the paper on the drum and then putting the drum back over the installed shoes and rotating the drum?  I had assumed the former, but as readers of this thread probably know, I'm usually wrong. :)

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I had the drums off the car. For each drum I cut a length of sticky back sand paper and placed it inside the drum. Then I hand rubbed the shoes for that drum back and forth inside the drum until I had contact the whole length. It was not too hard to keep the shoe flat to the drum so that sanding was even across the face.

 

I guess you could do it by mounting the drum but you would definitely need to trim the sandpaper to the drum width (the paper I got was about 4 1/2" wide and my drums are quite a bit less. Also, you may have to be a bit more accurate in the length so that the paper is very close to the circumference of the drum. And you would end up with a lot of sanding dust inside the brakes that would need to be cleaned out. For the rear wheels it would be a real pain to install and uninstall the drums. And finally, getting the pressure between the shoe and the drum right to that the wheel isn't locked and isn't totally free so the drum can rotate and the paper can cut the shoe might be tricky.

 

I am attaching a photo of the box the sandpaper I used came in. It was scientifically selected (only sticky back roll of sandpaper in the local hardware store). Your local stores may have different choices. This paper is actually a little too thick. If you have choices, take along a micrometer or vernier caliper to check the paper thickness. This paper turned out to be 80 grit which was about right, it did not take long to cut the shoe facing to size and did not leave horrible scratches in the surface.

 

p.s. You may notice a shoe grinding machine in the background of the photo. I acquired that after I sanded my shoes and haven't used it yet. Price was too good to pass up and maybe I'll need new brake shoes fitted sometime in the future.

post-76060-0-46131500-1437840124_thumb.j

Edited by ply33 (see edit history)
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ply33, on another topic, I was reading your description of the repair on your rear brake hubs using a Speedi-Sleeve to repair the contact surface of the brake drum shaft the outer rear axle seal runs against.  It looks like your shaft is a smaller diameter than mine as the Speedi-Sleeve 99189 works on a shaft size of 1.887 to 1.893.  My shaft mikes out to 2.00 at the top and 2.05 at the bottom.  Was the shaft on your drum tapered like this?  It's the taper that has me worried.  I've used the sleeves before, but never on a tapered shaft.  I can find several Speedi-Sleeves that are close, but nothing with the range I need.  99204 seems the closest with a range of 2.040 to 2.047 - too loose on top, too tight on the bottom.  There is also 99199 with a range of 1.097 to 2.003 - just right at the top, way too tight at the bottom.  I can find no listings for a tapered Speedi-Sleeve so I guess I'll just have to take a chance and see what happens.

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I did not check for taper on my hub so I can't say if it varied. A taper of 0.050 over less than an inch sounds odd. Not enough to be anything like a Morse taper but too much to be manufacturing tolerances. Could it be an effect of wear over the years? By the way I am not clear on your "top" and "bottom".

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Here is the culprit, and the measurements I'm talking about.  The guy who turned my drums (a real old-timer) told me they were tapered so the seal would slip on more easily when the drum was pushed on.  The "top" is were the seal first slips on, the "bottom" where the shaft meets the drum.

 

IMG_6369_zpsnveldgt0.jpg

 

IMG_6368_zpsr3nnnoxi.jpg

 

IMG_6370_zpsd30sv6ls.jpg

 

IMG_6371_zpsod3lqlbf.jpg

 

The taper seems normal, not caused by wear and is about the same on both rear drums.

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Interesting about that taper. It could be that the machine shop that did it for me turned it before installing. Or it could be that the slight taper on your '32 Dodge is something they dropped '33 or simply did not do for the lower price range Plymouth.

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Anyone have a source for the correct brake shoe return springs for my DL.  I ordered a set from Roberts and they are incorrect - the springs I received are apparently the correct parts number (T271), but , they are too short by almost an inch.  The diameter of the Roberts supplied spring is 7/16 of an inch, while my spring is 5/8".

My spring length - 6-5/8"

Roberts spring length - 5-1/2"

 

They tell me they don't have the correct springs and gave me a refund, but it would be nice to locate a supplier who can give me the correct stuff or not list it as correct in their catalog.  Anyone tell I'm having a lousy day?

Edited by Taylormade (see edit history)
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Hey there,

Are these the clips we were talking about for the brake and fuel lines ?

Cheers

Ian

Did you happen to have those or do you know a supplier that carries them?

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Anyone have a source for the correct brake shoe return springs for my DL.  I ordered a set from Roberts and they are incorrect - the springs I received are apparently the correct parts number (T271), but , they are too short by almost an inch.  The diameter of the Roberts supplied spring is 7/16 of an inch, while my spring is 5/8".

My spring length - 6-5/8"

Roberts spring length - 5-1/2"

 

They tell me they don't have the correct springs and gave me a refund, but it would be nice to locate a supplier who can give me the correct stuff or not list it as correct in their catalog.  Anyone tell I'm having a lousy day?

Did you find some brake springs, yet? If not, I will look in my stash of parts for them for you.

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