Id it really overheating?

[Guest TKJ sr1]

I have this 65 buick Specal v-6 that I'm trying to get running after sitting for 9 or so years. i have it running after carb kit, fuel pump, water pump and getting all the fluids changed. Now after installing the new water pump and thermostat the water begins to boil over before the radiator feels warm, infact the water being pumped out is just lukewarm. Put Prestone radiator cleaner through it twice. Getting some dirt colored water out of it, but after that drain and I pour clear water it drains clear. Any suggestions? get the radiator rodded? New cap?

[F&J]

Try it without the thermostat, unless you are positive that there was not a lot of air trapped in the engine after filling the rad.....or...

Some people drill a 1/16" hole in the T-stat, near the outer edge, so that refilling from an empty system goes easier.

[R Walling]

Check out the radiator.

I pulled my 55 Chrysler radiator out of the car and two months later I happen to turn it over and it was still full!

[Aaron65]

My '65 300 traps the air something fierce when I do any cooling system work. Drill a small hole in the thermostat...then you can determine if you need any radiator work. With brown water though, you might as well plan on getting a new radiator or having this one checked and cleaned.

[Guest Magoo]

Are you sure it isn't pumping combustion gas into the cooling system? Head gasket failures are very common on this engine.

[Guest Drew Kreidelcamp]

I had the same problem after the thermostat was replaced in my 1951 Henry J. I drilled a small hole in the thermostat and the problem was fixed. It prevents air from getting trapped in the system. If the coolant is not in contact with the thermostat, it may not open.

[misterc9]

Maybe the thermostat is in backwards. Pointed end should be toward radiator, pellet end toward engine. Drilling the small vent hole is also a good idea as mentioned above.

Edited March 23, 2013 by misterc9 (see edit history)

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Trapped air seems logical. Hadn't thought of that. I took the radiator off to have it checked out. I'll take the thermostat out and drill a small hole in it. One thing though. When I first removed the old water pump it was crystallized. Looked a lot like rock salt. I don't see or feel it down the water galley. Hoping it's not plugging small inner channels. thanks guys.

[padgett]

Key is the rad hose is not getting hot. Means either coolant is not really hot or something is plugged. Can tell if rad is clogged when flushing. Most likely culprit is thermostat. BTW with a carb I always use a 160 thermostat, computer control a 180. Even in the '50s, 195s were common OEM but I find if you run the engine cooler, even 10% (180 vs 195) everything under the hood lasts longer.

[Aaron65]

When I ran a 160 in my '53 Buick (no PCV system), the oil breather snotted up regularly...now with a 180, it runs toward the high end of the normal band on the highway in the summer on a 30+ minute run, but no junk on the breather.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

The radiator is plugged!! At the very least, the shop checking it should rod it out. Best is a recore. With those crystals mentioned, entire cooling system is suspect.

ben

[Guest TKJ sr1]

I took the radiator in yesterday. It's a new 180 thermostat. Drilled a 1/8 hole in it to help the air lock. Sure hoping this does the trick. I get the radiator back today. Thanks for all the input.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Ok. Put radiator back in. It's still spewing water out. Radiator is warm all around. It's is over heating. i can see the water is being pumped.

[nickelroadster]

"it's still spewing water". Spewing water from where? "Radiator is warm all around". From this we can assume that you are getting good circulation. Did the radiator guy say how much junk was in it? How sure are you that the block is clear? Did you ever do anything about the suggestion of a bad head gasket? Napa sells a kit that will detect the smallest amount of combustion products in your coolant. Have you checked to see if your timing is correct? Retarded timing will cause overheating. Have you checked your exhaust system for obstructions like a mouse nest?

[Guest TKJ sr1]

The radiator is warm all over. The radiator guy said it was pretty dirty. I'm not certain the the block is clear. I have run and drained it many many times and it continues to be dirty brown, seems to get a little clearer every time. I haven't for a bad head gasket. Timing is right on. What is this kit called? Thinking of removing thermostat and exhaust pipe, but I don't think it is the problem. I really think it's more of a head gasket or plugged block. Beginning to think I'm spending too much time and money on this motor.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

I found a leak detector kit at NAPA. It's fluid of some sort. Not much on the procedure. And of course it's order only.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

i have failed to mention that there is a lot of foam in the water.

[Aaron65]

Is it running on all 6? Foam in the water doesn't sound good.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

oh yeah, runs pretty smooth

[nickelroadster]

Leak detector is what you want. It will show you if there are any combustion products in the coolant and you want to have none.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Like a dummy i left the heater hoses connected, bypassed it and the water cleared up. It is still overheating. Got a leak Detector tried it but every time the thermostat opens it over flows and can't get a good reading. I drained the water down to the top of the core but still backs up and over flows. I seem to get good circulation, but is hot.

[nickelroadster]

It sure sounds like you have blown head gasket. Exhaust gases escaping into the coolant are pressurizing the system on a continuous basis makes it overheat. These gases do not conduct heat as efficiently as coolant alone and that is why it overheats. Also sounds as if you have a clogged heater core. Can you see how this situation would make it hard to conduct a leak test? Nothing else besides a blown head gasket would pressurize the cooling system. Time to install new head gaskets. Time to think of this as a learning experience.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Oh, believe me it is a learning experience. I'm thinking head gaskets too. This car has been worked on before. Crappy job too. Every fluid leaks, every bolt just barely finger tight. I think I need to consider if this motor is worth all the work.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

OK, pulled the heads. Looked like the intake manifold was leaking a little at the #4 cylinder. Between the exhaust port and intake port. Can't see any obvious head gasket leak though. I did feel fairly uneven torquing on the head bolts and intake manifold bolts in fact. Hope this does the trick.

[Aaron65]

Let us know how it turns out...if the intake was leaking, obviously change the oil...Did you use a manual to get the torque sequences right on the heads and intake?

[nickelroadster]

Also check the heads for flatness. This also gives you a chance to look at water passages in the heads and block that you wouldn't see otherwise.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Should get the gasket kit today. I have an old "Motor Manual" that my dad used. It was published in 1966. I also have one that was published in 1962. Funny thing, every torquing sequence I found shows 11 or 13 bolts. These heads and block

have only 8.

[Aaron65]

Engine Torque Specifications for most Buick Engines

Check this out...it looks like you have a '66 or '67 V6 in it.

[alfourfire]

I've read in the past that foam in the radiator/cooling system is a sign of a leak in the water pump allowing air to be sucked into the system. Just a thought.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Hope that foam isn't from the water pump. I did replace it. Thanks for the info @Aaron65...Could be why the numbers don't quite match either. reads that it a V8* too. Somebody got hooded winked when it was worked on. Something else too...The block and heads have about 5/16" water jacket hole the between inner cylinders...The Head gasket has a very small hole...about 1/8" hole....that can't be right.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

OK...took my time, did all the right steps, got her all back together. Guess what? She running hot. Purred real nice, sounded smooth. Got that headed gasket prob. remedied. Once it got warm enough for the thermostat to open there was a little foam. water was circulating, radiator warming consistently, no leaks anywhere. Idled about 10 mins. while filling the tranny with fluid. Popped the relief on the rad. cap and she just went crazy spewing hot water and steam. One violent eruption. Very disappointed here. One thing i did notice....the heads have a distinct crown to them. Long wise on the head. Took a chance that was by design for torquing.

[Aaron65]

I can't imagine it was designed that way...the head should be flat on the sealing surface. That stinks man...I forget, did you try pressurizing the cooling system? I think that's your next bet...go to your local big box auto parts store and rent a pressure tester. Hook it up to the radiator and pump it up to 15 pounds of pressure, and let it sit. If there's a leak, the pressure will go down and you may even see where it is leaking.

[Dandy Dave]

Start it cold with the radiator cap off and see if bubbles are comming up right away, before it even gets warm. If so, most likely you have a hairline crack in a head somewhere. This will happen from repeated overheating and running. You have to look carefully, especially around the valves and valve seats. Also, as mentioned previously, the heads need to be checked for flatness. Even a warp of 0.002 to 0.003 can be a problem. Too bad that you had them off already and did not carfully look. Dandy Dave!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Man, after idling for ten minutes, it WILL be warm enough to spew. As the temp comes up to operating, pressure builds as it should. Popping the cap releases the pressure rapidly. Normal! Have you installed a temp gauge to see what the temp is coming to? It should be getting to 225 or so. It is only overheating if it blows water past the cap out the pressure relief line.ASSUMING no crack head or bad gasket or other internal problem, the radiator should cool it to design temp.

Ben

[Guest Foggy norm]

Don't give up on the engine. It sound's like your over the hill and doing everything right with it....it RUNS! Shouldn't worry to much about the "crystals", that's the begining of surface rust in an enclosed enviroment. That stuff gets shinny and bubbly like crystals, exposed it would be dull. I've opened an 80year old part that had fluid in it at one time, shinny rust. With new water (mixed antifreeze) it dissolves and flushes away. I wouldn't put antifreeze in it till your done working on it, it'll just get dirty.

[Guest Magoo]

OK...took my time, did all the right steps, got her all back together. Guess what? She running hot. Purred real nice, sounded smooth. Got that headed gasket prob. remedied. Once it got warm enough for the thermostat to open there was a little foam. water was circulating, radiator warming consistently, no leaks anywhere. Idled about 10 mins. while filling the tranny with fluid. Popped the relief on the rad. cap and she just went crazy spewing hot water and steam. One violent eruption. Very disappointed here. One thing i did notice....the heads have a distinct crown to them. Long wise on the head. Took a chance that was by design for torquing.

The cylinder heads and block decks should be flat and straight with no crown or dish -- within .002 inches as measured with a straightedge and feeler gauge. Some people say .001 and others might say .004, whatever, but if your heads have a discernible crown, that's wrong for sure.

As others suggested, while the engine is still assembled I would

1. buy/rent a good pressure tester that installs on the rad cap flange and see how well the cooling system holds pressure.

2. Using the adapter hose from a compression gauge or leakdown tester, blow 100 PSI compressed air into each cylinder via the spark plug hole (int and exh valves closed) and see where it goes.

[Guest TKJ sr1]

Thanks guys....Yeah the heads were distinctly concave. Knowing the heads are bad, I'd better go in that direction. I did drive it up and down my block. First time in over 9 yrs. Nothing fell off. Leaked from the bottom. I checked the pan bolts, again barely over finger tight. Tightened the ones I could reach. Can't thank you guys enough. I've been using all your advice and learning from it.

[Aaron65]

I wonder what the interchangability is on these V6s. Maybe you could find a good running engine and swap it out, rather than spending many hundred or even thousand on a rebuild. It might be worth looking into. Then again, if it runs on all 6, maybe a mill and a valve job would do. However, I've found that headwork almost universally comes out to nearly $1000, no matter what. Good luck!

[Guest TKJ sr1]

I did get it running. That was my first goal. The interior is totally shot. So, while i work on that I can see about a engine change out or ? I have already invested way to much into that motor to give up on it. I am worried that the heads or too far gone. Not sure how much can be milled. That daylight I saw using a straight edge was WAY over any tolerance. maybe I can find some heads...Yet, again someone worked on it, and EVERY bolt and nut were just thrown on. When i did drive it, oil dripped pretty bad. No leak sitting. Not an easy task to do any thing from the bottom. Have to remove some steering linkage and motor mounts. Raise the engine. Might be better to yank it, so I can do it right. Damn, what interior pieces I can find (and not everything) are costly. May I can sell the wife!!! haha...wouldn't be enough anyway...This is a great site and you guys have been a blessing...

[nickelroadster]

Hopefully you are at least learning something and are having a good time. Sometimes the strange things that people do to cars over the years can be really jaw dropping but at the same time really educational.