1934 Packard Preservation

[HarryJ]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Don from what I can see and have read it looks like you need to go completely through the cooling system; possibly rebuilding/cleaning the radiator. Also the water jackets may have an accumulation of rust/ mud sediment in them.

Edited April 19, 2013 by HarryJ (see edit history)

[Guest traumjaeger]

Hi Don, I have some photos ready for you but I have run into two problems. 1.How do I clear the previous scans from the manage attachments? 2.When I try to upload the files I keep getting a exclamation mark at the side of the file and it won't accept the file. Your water problem, when I did mine I disconnected the bottom hose and ran a high pressure water hose through it and back flushed it through the rad. I then put the hose back on and kept the water flowing through the rad with the drain cock open. I did this several times over the course of a week and I was surprised at the muck that came out. By the way if your water is oily and has lots of sludge in it, it's possible that you have a blown oil cooler. This can happen with a 79 year old cooler and with the start up oil pressure up to at least 60p.s.i it bursts. Not as serious as it sound and can be repaired either at a rad shop or replacing it with a by- pass pipe, which is what I did with mine after two bursts. The car doesn't need the oil cooler and was just one of Packard's ideas to improve the oil temperature. If the cooler has burst it does not lend itself to good cooling with oil in the water. Hope you can help me with the photos again. T

[TexRiv_63]

Terry, you don't have to clear previous photos. Just hit add files and duplicate the process you used before, it should work fine. Could photo files be too large?

[TexRiv_63]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Don from what I can see and have read it looks like you need to go completely through the cooling system; possibly rebuilding/cleaning the radiator. Also the water jackets may have an accumulation of rust/ mud sediment in them.

Thanks Harry. When the car was serviced before I bought it both the head and water jacket cover were removed and all passages were cleaned out but the radiator was not flushed. I also don't know how well the block was cleaned or if it was flushed. My game plan is to backflush and frontflush the block and radiator separately until I get clean water then run it and see if it improves. Next I will pull the water pump and see how that looks plus replace the belts. If none of this helps I may have to pull the radiator but I hope not.

[TexRiv_63]

I have been looking all over for a cooling system flushing tool and saw a bunch from cheap and flimsy ones to ridiculously expensive "Professional" ones. In the end I found what I consider a reasonably priced but industrial grade flush gun right here in Dallas, Texas from a company called Therm Processes Inc. It has a heavy cast brass body and heavy duty brass water and air valves and looks like it will last forever. Now all I need is some time to do the work!

[unimogjohn]

Don, great find, but take care not to put a lot of pressure into the system or you may end of blowing out the tubes of the radiator. Personally, I would not use more than 5 to 10 lbs of air pressure. But then again, I may be a bit conservative.

[Guest traumjaeger]

Hi, Don here are three photos for you which is all I can seem to download at the moment. The !!!£££xx computer is having a mind of its own at the moment. I will try again soon with some more. T

[Earl B.]

Don, I took my water jacket cover off and OH MY what a mess in there. I used a chisel to scrape the goo out. Then I used a pressure washer. I think you will do well to take the cover off while you're into all this...B

[TexRiv_63]

Hi, Don here are three photos for you which is all I can seem to download at the moment. The !!!£££xx computer is having a mind of its own at the moment. I will try again soon with some more. T

Terry, your firewall looks so clean compared to mine! The round unit with the six screws is the brake assist adjuster same as mine but we'll see what the other junk does...

[TexRiv_63]

Don, great find, but take care not to put a lot of pressure into the system or you may end of blowing out the tubes of the radiator. Personally, I would not use more than 5 to 10 lbs of air pressure. But then again, I may be a bit conservative.

John, my plan is to actually start with just water pressure and see what come out. If I add air it won't be high pressure, just enough to add some pulse to the water. I REALLY don't want to take the radiator out of this car if I don't have to!

[TexRiv_63]

With help of Terry and Owen_Dyneto I think I have partially figured out the stuff on my driver's side firewall. Looking at the pic of Terry's car the only standard pieces are the Bijur pump, the large round regulator for the brake assist, and the vacuum tubes that connect them. The smaller round unit with the electrical terminals is most likely a vacuum sensor switch which is part of the optional Startix system. The mystery part is the rectangular box with the gold cover, inside are two copper-wound coil units with breaker point plates and two fuses. Only one of these coil units has wires attached to it, there are two unused terminals. One guess was that this was an add-on voltage regulator replacing or supplementing the generator cutout. Another was that this was a supplementary circuit breaker / fusebox that was added at the same time an aftermarket turn signal system was added. It is obvious that a lot of modern wiring was added but I have no records showing what it does. The generator appears to have been rebuilt at some point, it has what looks like a new cutout and there is an abandoned wire laying next to the generator. The charging system appears to work very well on this car with no significant battery drain since I have had it. Has anyone seen this type of setup before? Help solve the mystery.

[r1lark]

Tex,

The box with the two fuses inside looks like a headlight relay. Six volt cars are subject to voltage drop through the headlight switch which will cause dim headlights and in extreme cases cause the headlight switch to heat up. When installed, the relay actually switches the current which is provided directly from the battery. Of course it could also be wired as a relay for something else, but I would suspect the headlights.

Keep up the great work on this car, it sure looks like a keeper!

[TexRiv_63]

Thanks Paul, I never thought about a relay but it makes sense. The lights are nice and bright for an old 6 volt car. At some point I'll have to trace the wires and see what they connect to, bigger fish to fry first though.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Thanks Paul, I never thought about a relay but it makes sense. The lights are nice and bright for an old 6 volt car. At some point I'll have to trace the wires and see what they connect to, bigger fish to fry first though.

Disconnect it and try the lights, maybe??

Ben

[TexRiv_63]

The last few days I started working on the cooling system. I drained the coolant, which looked like a 50/50 green glycol antifreeze solution. I then filled the system with water and drained it a couple of times before removing the radiator hoses. The cast iron water fittings showed a little corrosion but were in pretty good shape, I had been worried about that. I hooked up a flexible drain hose to the radiator top outlet and set up my new flushing gun with a garden hose and air line and inserted it in the lower hose which I had left connected to the bottom radiator tank. I set the air pressure at 10-15 psi, turned on the water, and tapped the air valve on and off to provide a pulse in the water flow. I was happy to see a bunch of crud and chunks come out, most dissolved in the water flow but I saved a few, the largest were almost 3/4" long! I kept flushing on and off until there were no more chunks, then I hooked the tubes up to the block. Backflushing the engine didn't produce any visible dirt or chunks so hopefully the service previous to my purchase did a good job of cleaning it out. I patched a seeping area around the thermostat with RTV which is curing as we speak. I also re-torqued the cylinder head and it did need it. Later in the week I will fill it with water, check for leaks and drive it and see if there is improvement. Later I plan to drain it again and refill with distilled water spiked with Redline Water Wetter and we'll see where we wind up.

[Guest traumjaeger]

Your getting there Don. That's about the size of crud that came out of mine. Keep us informed on any improvement please. T

[TexRiv_63]

Along with the cooling system I did a little exploration on my Bijur pump. I pulled it off to clean out the reservoir and when I removed the oil feed line fresh oil dripped out so I am fairly certain it is now working since I have regularly used the car. The oil in the reservoir was old but not that dirty, there was some gunk at the bottom which I cleaned out along with the filter. The glass jar had a crack at the top, I covered it with a piece of duct tape which I turned to the firewall side. I cleaned the firewall area a little, hooked everything back up and put in fresh 50 weight oil. When I get the car running tomorrow I'll check the operation of the vacuum diaphragm to be sure it is working. Later I intend to clean the joints serviced by the pump and remove some of the connections to better observe if they are getting oil.

[TexRiv_63]

I am cautiously optimistic that my cooling problems may be improved! (How's that for a safe statement to not arouse the car repair gods?) I filled the system with plain water, saw no leaks, and started it up. I ran it in the garage until the gauge hit 140 then went for a ride. It was 84 degrees here today. I stopped for some gas and drove it about 6 or 7 miles. On the same route before it went up close to 200 degrees but today it topped out at 180 and stayed there. I'll take it out again a bit this weekend and if the results are consistent I'll replace the tap water with distilled and add Redline Water Wetter. That is supposed to lower temps by as much as 20 degrees compared to a regular antifreeze mixture plus it functions as an anti-corrosive. So far so good...

On the other side of fate I did check the Bijur pump diaphragm with my MityVac and it does not appear to work, so much for my earlier optimism. I'm going to check it again using engine vacuum but it looks like I may need to get it rebuilt. Any recommendations based on recent experience?

[Guest traumjaeger]

Hi Don, Good news indeed. Two places for Bijur repairs Classic and exotic in Troy Michigan And I had mine repaired by a guy in Calif. By the name of Jim Johnson who owns and runs his own engineering business. I cant, find his address at the moment, Drip plug spares are available from Bruce Blevins 1838remellStreet Flint Mi 48503 Phone 810 744-1820. Hope this helps T.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Don, I was wondering what you would get next. Looks like you have a great looking car to work with.

[TexRiv_63]

Terry, thanks for the names. I hope to get back to it this week and we will see what I have to do.

Bill, thanks - we need to keep the good cars in Texas!

[TexRiv_63]

Yesterday I jacked the car up for another round of puttering. I cleaned up all of the spring shackles a little by scraping enormous piles of crud off, what a dirty job. My initial thought that I had seen new oil from the Bijur system at some of them proved to be false as the crust was mostly dry, although they may have been hand oiled when the car was serviced before I bought it. I did confirm that the undercarriage of my car was painted Packard Blue from the factory - someone said that was an option but it is not mentioned on the invoice. I started the car and checked the Bijur pump as Owen_Dyneto suggested using engine vacuum applied on and off for many cycles, there was no response from the pump. There was also an obvious vacuum leak at the diaphragm so I plugged the line and the engine idle slowed down a bit, it may run a little better now! I will have to remove the pump again and send it off for repair. While I'm doing that I going to use a pressure oiler to manually pump up the system so I can see if all the joints are open and get some lube to them. The oiler is actually a lever type grease gun that I've never used but when I bought it they said it could also be used for oil, we'll see.

[TexRiv_63]

I did not have a very productive day yesterday. I removed the Bijur pump from the firewall and disconnected the line to the throwout bearing then I filled the pressure gun with oil and hooked it up. I started pumping, stopped and looked under the car, no evidence of any oil. I assumed I was just filling the lines, pumped some more, the pressure seemed to go up a little but not much. Looked under the car again in the front, didn't see any oil. Then I turned my head to the back of the car, boy was there a puddle behind the right rear wheel! Turns out there was a big leak at the soldered "T" joint at the crossmember in front of the fuel tank. In hindsight I should have suspected something since there was a lot more crud around that spring than elsewhere underneath. I disconnected the line at the junction on the drivers side but didn't have the right fittings to plug the hole so I had to wrap it up for today. Once I can plug it I'll try again and see if there are any other leaks... I also have a slow leak in one of my tires, thought it might be the valve core so I replaced it, but it still leaks enough to lose 10psi in 2-3 days. Looks like I'll have to open up one of the spares, they are ancient tires but they do hold pressure.

[TexRiv_63]

No more progress on the Bijur system. Today I had to change a tire, I have a slow leak in the right rear, replaced the valve core but still leaks so I'm going to take it in for (I hope) repair. It was the first time taking down the spare. Getting the tire cover off was interesting, kind of like uncoiling a spring! That will be a lot of fun putting back on... I found that the car had wide whites on it at some time, the spare is an ancient bald U.S. Royal but it does hold air. I pulled out the tools under the passenger seat as I needed the lug wrench to mount the wheel, I have that plus the jack and jack handle but no other tools. I did find the battery box cover hiding between the seats and will see if I can mount it later. I was pleased to find the tire well in excellent shape with no rust and original paint intact. This is the first car I've owned with lug bolts but using the lug wrench as a dowel like the manual tells you makes it pretty easy to mount the wheel.

[Guest traumjaeger]

HI Don, Yes the side mount covers can be a bit of a challenge, I've been there. When you put them back on keep the tyre under inflated and pump it up when you have got all back on the car. Any chance of a few pictures of your jack and battery cover please. I'm still looking for the cover for my battery. What's the plan for the Bijur unit?

[TexRiv_63]

HI Don, Yes the side mount covers can be a bit of a challenge, I've been there. When you put them back on keep the tyre under inflated and pump it up when you have got all back on the car. Any chance of a few pictures of your jack and battery cover please. I'm still looking for the cover for my battery. What's the plan for the Bijur unit?

Here is everything I found under the seat. The jack, handle, and lug wrench appear to be painted Packard Blue and the battery box cover is black. The jack won't turn, I will have to clean it up and soak it with penetrating oil. One of these days I will research what other tools were included with the car and try to find them. My first priority for the Bijur is to get oil into the lines and provide some needed lube for the affected joints, I went out today and found the fittings I needed, just have to get back at it. Once that is done I have to call some of the recommended restorers for the bad news and send the pump off.

[TexRiv_63]

I got my leaking tire fixed but it took awhile. I first took it to my local Discount Tire where they had previously told me they could fix tube type tires. When they actually looked at my Packard wire wheel and OOOOLD Dayton truck tire the story changed. They looked hard for a manufacture date on the tire but of course there was none, then I got the blank stare when I told them they probably would need to patch the tube... I think the boss had to call someone, then he told me they couldn't do it, they were "not allowed" to work on a tire older than 10 years, only REPLACE it! I wound up taking it to Thomason Tire, a long time local dealer in old McKinney. I showed them the tire, asked if they could fix it, and got "Sure, no problem". I left it there and got a call telling me they patched the tube and it was ready before I even got home! I asked if they could handle replacement tires and they said sure and work with Coker or Wallace Wade. Good to know for the future.

I remounted the tire today and put the spare back, getting the metal cover on was actually quite easy after deflating the tire, thanks Terry. The old arms sure ache from lifting those tires though!

[TexRiv_63]

I had a chance to work on a little "Preservation" today. Due to my leaky tire I had removed one of the spare tires and tire mirrors plus exposed one grungy brake drum. Since discovering my undercarriage was painted body color at the factory I knew I would be exposing sections of this paint plus rusty or bare metal in spots I cleaned so I decided to use a clearcoat to preserve these areas and discourage additional rusting. I bought three cans of Krylon clear, one flat, one satin, and one gloss. Today I did the brake drum as my first experiment, I cleaned and degreased the visible part and applied a light coat of the satin clear. It did not appreciably darken the color and I like it, what do you think?

I also did a bit more paint polishing on the body. (No clearcoat will be used here.) After my initial use of light compound and wax on half the hood and cowl removed a massive amount of the paint I decided I would not go that way. Today I experimented using just wax, Meguiar's High-Tech yellow paste wax applied by hand. I did the other side of the hood and cowl plus the front section of one door and am quite pleased with the results. There is a noticeable darkening and gloss improvement without the excessive paint removal of the other method plus the wax protection will help in keeping it clean.

Lastly I purchased some Quick-Glo Chrome Cleaner after seeing it demonstrated on a Jay Leno's Garage video. This is a pumice - based cleaner with wax in it that has apparently been around since the 50s but I had never used it. I have not tried it on anything serious like rusty bumpers yet but I did use it on my tire mirror and part of the radiator shell and it seems to work very well. When I removed the bumper guards from my rear bumper I cleaned that with red rubbing compound but it still needs help - I'm going to try the Quick-Glo on that and we'll see.

[r1lark]

Don, check out this thread about restoring antique single stage paint.........a lot of good info, and in my opinion it makes a lot of sense. In fact, I'm following this process on my '54 Studebaker (with a weathered early '70s paint job) and it is making a big difference. A lot of info, I had to read it thru several times.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

Edited May 26, 2013 by r1lark
added the link! (see edit history)

[Guest traumjaeger]

Hi Don, Wow. The old girl is starting to look a lot better with your application of some elbow grease. By the way thanks for the pics of your jack and Battery cover. Glad the tip on the side mount replacement helped. Well getting ready now to go over to the Belgian European rally tomorrow with my 34 "Jean-Luc Packard." If you need anymore info on anything just shout. T

[Landman]

I also did a bit more paint polishing on the body. (No clearcoat will be used here.) After my initial use of light compound and wax on half the hood and cowl removed a massive amount of the paint I decided I would not go that way. Today I experimented using just wax, Meguiar's High-Tech yellow paste wax applied by hand. I did the other side of the hood and cowl plus the front section of one door and am quite pleased with the results. There is a noticeable darkening and gloss improvement without the excessive paint removal of the other method plus the wax protection will help in keeping it clean.

.

Don, in 1983 I bought a Packard that had been repainted in 1966 or 1967. While it wasn't 80 years old like yours it had faded some and had a lot of swirls in it. I brought it back with paste wax with dramatic results, both in the paint and my shoulders.

[TexRiv_63]

Don, in 1983 I bought a Packard that had been repainted in 1966 or 1967. While it wasn't 80 years old like yours it had faded some and had a lot of swirls in it. I brought it back with paste wax with dramatic results, both in the paint and my shoulders.

Pat, that looks fabulous! No way I can go that far but we'll see...

[TexRiv_63]

Don, check out this thread about restoring antique single stage paint.........a lot of good info, and in my opinion it makes a lot of sense. In fact, I'm following this process on my '54 Studebaker (with a weathered early '70s paint job) and it is making a big difference. A lot of info, I had to read it thru several times.

Thanks Paul, I'll check it out.

[TexRiv_63]

Another dirty job week. Starting Tuesday I jacked it up and pulled off all four wheels to finish up my lubrication adventure. I plugged the leaking Bijur line along with the one going to the clutch release bearing then I reattached my pressure oiler. This time I was able to pump it up good without any major leaks which I did a few times then let it sit overnight. The next morning I saw oil at the front spring shackles and the rear spring front shackle but no visible oil anywhere else, not sure if you would see it normally. I manually oiled the rear shackles and the rest of the Bijur points and gave the clutch bearing a shot plus went back and did the brake clevis points again. Hopefully this will keep everything loose until I get the Bijur pump rebuilt.

Able to get at the front end for the first time, today I wiped and scraped off another mountain of old grease and crud from the steering joints then I relubed them - I had to put new right angle zerks on the kingpins to get my grease gun fitting to work. I use a screw type Alemite gun that I bought when I got my Pierce Arrow, it takes longer to do the job but doesn't overpressure the joints. I also topped off the front shock absorbers with jack oil but found they were close to full. I still need to check the rear shocks but ran out of time. I finished up by cleaning and clearcoating the rest of the brake drums and remounting the wheels.

[Guest traumjaeger]

Hi Don, Good to see things taking shape for you. Just one point, grease should not be used on your steering joints but S.A.E 140 or 160 oil . Dave (Owen Dyneto) can probable advise you better on that issue. T

[TexRiv_63]

Hi Don, Good to see things taking shape for you. Just one point, grease should not be used on your steering joints but S.A.E 140 or 160 oil . Dave (Owen Dyneto) can probable advise you better on that issue. T

Terry, you are correct, that is actually included on a lubrication list that Dave prepared but I missed it. Not that that mattered much since the mechanic that serviced it before I bought it used grease. I will open it up and see how much grease I can get out then add oil.

[TexRiv_63]

One of the things on my to-do list was the hood on this car. It was originally designed with dual rubber bumpers at the rear lower corners to protect the body and check straps to limit the opening of the hood and keep it from falling on top of the other side. The only thing remaining of my check straps were the firewall attaching points and I had to be very careful opening the hood, both upper bumpers were gone and only the passenger lower bumper remained although in bad shape. It has been this way for a long time, the cowl top edge on the drivers side is all scarred from contact with the uncovered upper bumper bracket. I ordered new rubber bumpers from Steele Rubber and reproduction check straps from Phil Bray and got it all installed today.

I propped up each hood side with my precision holding fixture (See photo) and did the lower bumpers first, they are held on with T-bolts, rectangular washers and nuts. Next were the upper bumpers which fit over triangular brackets perpendicular to the hood side. The originals were held on with soft rivets, I replaced these with nuts, bolts and washers. All of the Steele parts fit perfectly. Last were the check straps. Phil Bray's repros appear to be pretty accurate, the size and material of the strap are a good match. The mounting hardware for the firewall was not even close though, he supplied a short screw but a much longer bolt is needed, I reused the originals. Easy to install , just bolted them on and clipped the other end to the hood latch rod. I have no frame of reference on the length but they do keep the hood upright and the clip end makes the hood position adjustable. All in all a very easy job!

[Landman]

Its a nice feeling when something fits right off the bat isn't it?

[TexRiv_63]

Its a nice feeling when something fits right off the bat isn't it?

Yes, especially after MANY encounters with the opposite situation...

[TexRiv_63]

Terry, you are correct, that is actually included on a lubrication list that Dave prepared but I missed it. Not that that mattered much since the mechanic that serviced it before I bought it used grease. I will open it up and see how much grease I can get out then add oil.

I finally got back to this today, I pulled the zerk fittings and scooped out as much grease as I could. It all looked pretty clean and soft. I then shot some 140 weight gear lube in with a small pressure gun but it didn't take much. I will come back to this after 50 miles or so and do it again.

I will say the steering on this car is great in comparison to the 32 Cadillac I used to have. That car was almost impossible to turn at rest and not much better under way, after a short drive you felt like you had been lifting weights for an hour. The Packard is heavy but manageable at rest and quite easy and precise under way for a heavy car, with almost no freeplay. The best steering was on my 28 Pierce 81, so light it almost felt assisted - of course that car weighed 1000 pounds less!