Research Help - 1909 Washington A1 - Senior Thesis

[Guest postwarnut]

Hi all!

I am looking for any and all information relating to the Washington car built by the Carter Motor Car Co. in Hyattsville, MD from 1909 - 1912. As far as I am aware, there is only one left in existence, a 1909 Model A1 30hp Touring car. It is this car I am focusing my senior thesis on. I am a senior Historic Automotive Restoration Technology major at McPherson College.

Below is an outline of what I have uncovered and what I would still like to find more information on:

1.

I plan on establishing the history of the Washington car. I have tracked down the book written about Maryland automobile manufactures and a few articles that appeared in the journals and periodicals of the period. Does anybody out there have further information regarding the make? I read through the other thread on this forum but would like to rehash the question to see what else might be lurking in the shadows. http://forums.aaca.org/f169/washington-car-173618.html

Does anybody have any period photographs? I have been checking ebay and shorpy but haven't came up with much.

How many Washington's were built?

Who were their customers?

Any accounts of the Washington factory?

What is the exact location of the factory and is the building still there?

2.

I am tracking down events Washington cars competed in. I have found evidence of 3 Washington's competing in the 1909 Frank A. Munsey Reliability Run as well as in the 1910 running of this event. Again, period photos are huge as well as records of the cars that were involved, accounts, etc. I am attempting to connect the remaining Washington to this event. Additionally, in 1913 a Women's suffrage motorcade left Hyattsville, MD, the Washington's home. I would be very interested to discover if a Washington was involved in this event.

3.

Establish a record of ownership. Most of the following information was found in RM's Catalogue from the cars sale in 2012 and 2004.

The Model A1 that I am focusing on was purchased in 1936 by Francis George DuPont and owned until 1980 by the DuPont family. George's father was the creator of the DuPont motor cars. The Washington was first? restored in the 1950s by George.

Who owned the car from 1909 to 1936?

Are there any records of DuPont with the Washington?

Are there any photos from this period?

Are there any records of the restoration?

It seems the car was then purchased by Robert Sahl in 1980 who toured with the car until having it restored in the early 1990s by, I believe, Dragone restorations. There are accounts of the car under Sahl's ownership in the Horseless Carriage Club's magazine but they are mostly captions to photos. If someone knows of an article that appeared on the car I would love to see it! The index on their web site only seemed to point to the captions that I found and a couple of photos.

Any records of the car under Sahl's ownership?

Any photos from touring events Sahl entered?

Any photos from shows the Washington attended? It was at Connecticut’s Greenwich Concours d’Elegance in 1997. Does anybody have photos from this event?

The Washington was offered at the 2004 Amelia Island RM auction. I am unsure if the owner who sold it here was Sahl or someone else. http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=16520

In 2004 it was purchased by John O'Quinn and made its way into Bill Ruger's collection sometime after that.

In 2012 it was sold at the St. John's RM auction to its current owner. 1909 Washington 30HP Five-Passenger Touring | St. John's 2012 | RM AUCTIONS

Any help filling in the gaps would be fantastic!

4. Any other relevant photos, documents, or information!

Best Regards,

Casey Maxon

[motoringicons]

I don't know if this is of any help, but when Bob and Sharon Sahl owned the Washington it was driven regularly. Mainly on New England Gas and Brass Tours as well as other tours in the New England area. I was on many tours with the Sahls and their Washington and on a few occasions was a passenger and even drove it a bit. During most of their ownership, the car was painted white- an old paint job that was showing its age. If memory serves correctly, the car was cosmetically damaged in an enclosed trailer accident and that is when it was sent to Dragone's to be restored. After restoration, I don't remember the car being used much other than some shows. Bob Sahl passed away awhile back and the car ended up in John O'Quinns big car collection in Houston, Texas. I am not sure if the car had other owners in between the Sahls and O'Quinn. The car was sold in July of 2012 at the RM St. Johns Auction.

[Guest postwarnut]

motoringicons,

Thank you for the information! Hearing from someone who has driven the car is very neat! Do you happen to have any photos of the car from those tours? There were a couple in the Horseless Carriage Club Gazzette but I would love to see others.

Regards,

Casey

[1937hd45]

I remember the Washington too at local shows and tours. I think it was featured on a calendar before the restoration, white with red wheels. For some reason I think Bob bought it from someone in Stamford, Ct. I wonder were his 1911 Knox is now. Bob

[TG57Roadmaster]

If the Hagerstown group met up with this NY to DC contingent, it may be possible that the George Eastman House has images of the cars that participated in that 1913 trip, taken by Nathan Lazarnick. A big if, but it's worth a try (if you haven't already) to contact them to see what other images they have of that event.

Votes For Women | George Eastman House Blog

Good luck on your research!

TG

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Cool Thesis, Postwarnut. I am likely stating the obvious but if you have not already done so you should reach out to George or Manny Dragone -

Dragone Classic Motorcars - About Us - Antique and Classic Car Restoration. We buy, sell and restore classic cars, antique, old and vintage automobiles as well as collectible sports cars. Located in Westport and Bridgeport, CT

Two very nice guys who will I am sure help you with history and maybe some relavent details on the restoration process -

Good luck with it!

[motoringicons]

Unfortunately, I don't have any photos. I know the car was pictured from time to time in the Horseless Carriage Gazette before and after the restoration.

Bob-A collector who lives in both Florida and PA owns the Knox. He had it for sale awhile back but I am not sure if it sold. That was another great car.

[Guest postwarnut]

TG,

Good recommendation! I will have to check that out too as it would provide a very different avenue for photos that I wouldn't have thought about otherwise!

Casey

[Guest postwarnut]

Steve,

I gave Dragone a call on Friday and left a message. If I don't hear back I will try again this week. Thanks for the heads up!

Casey

[Guest postwarnut]

Update:

Upon another google search --- one of hundreds at this point I had the great fortune of coming across this photo: It appears the D.C. Fire Department put a Washington into service in 1910 for its fire chief, Frank J. Wagner. It was also a 5 - passenger Touring Car as is the remaining Washington.

As of now that is about all I found out about this F.D. Washington.

Best Regards,

Casey

[Guest postwarnut]

A couple weeks back on my spring break at the college, I was able to go photograph the Washington and look it over. Here are some preliminary shots from that day.

I continue to gather information on both the Washington and Carter Motor Car company. I still have many questions and am always looking for more information or research tips!

Regarding the Washington D.C. fire department's use of the Washington: It appears they had one Carter and two Washington's. The Twin Engine Carter was the first motor vehicle the fire department purchased. One of the Washingtons was a roadster which I have recently tracked down a photo of on Ebay.

Best regards,

Casey Maxon

[1937hd45]

Casey, Have you looked closely to see if there were major differances with the Roadster and Touring bodies? Was the ex Bob Sahl car a Roadster with an extra two passenger seat added? Bob

Edited April 13, 2013 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Guest postwarnut]

Casey, Have you looked closely to see if there were major differances with the Roadster and Touring bodies? Was the ex Bob Sahl car a Roadster with an extra two passenger seat added? Bob

1937hd45,

That is a fantastic question. I have been curious about that myself as this car is a 4 passenger surrey, rather than the 5 passenger touring car it was advertised as being at the recent auctions. I will look into this and post an update!

I also recently discovered a link to a sale bill for the car in 2003 at Bonhams. Does anybody know when Bob Sahl or his family sold the car and if it was at auction? In other words, was the Bonhams auction sale in 2003 or the RM auction sale in 2004 from Bob's ownership? The Bonhams web site does not list a sale for the car so I am also unsure if the car did sell at this auction. Bonhams 1793 : 1909 Washington A-1 Touring Car;

Another interesting note that I had not seen before from the Bonhams auction catalogue: "...the Washington was assembled by students of the Automobile College of Washington, D.C., in exchange for their tuition."

Regards,

Casey

[Guest Jembow]

I have a Carter mascot, about 4 1/2" high depicting a young man in overalls with a cap, making a casual salute. The figure would fit in with the story that students helped to assemble the cars. It is inscribed Carter Motor Car Co Washington DC. Interestingly it is nickel, while the Washington car is a brass car. I bought it from an automobilia dealer here in the UK about 25 years ago - don't know how it crossed the pond. Here's a link to photos: https://plus.google.com/photos/100465155247781991498/albums/5917579810061464001

Jem Bowkett

Great Britain

[Guest prs519]

Did you try the search engine on this AACA website? I am thinking that in the "What's it?" department, that the unknown vehicle earned a consensus for being a Washington. Seems like there may even have been two such occasions. Sorry, I am getting a little cloudy in the memoirs department, but I think it was in the last year.