37 Pontiac SilverStreak Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Team,i am now at the stage where I need to remove the coil springs from the front suspension. Visually, it looks very simple, I only have "a-arms" and a coil spring... The engine is still on the frame, ready to be removed so I can sand blast the frame for repainting.. But before I remove the engine, I read its best to keep on the engine on frame for weight, for removing the coil springs...I need some advice...Do I borrow an internal spring compressor, keep the weight on the spring, secure it, then raise car off floor, letting the a-frame to lower naturally, remove the lower a-arm section, and let the spring drop out, and inspect, paint the spring (they look in great shape)....do I use a floor jack, and secure the base of the a-arm, while the car is off the floor... Letting the spring expand as much as the arm allows it.. Loosen the a-arm and lower it with the floor jack as there is limited pressure on the spring, and let the a-arm slowly drop down with the floor jack...any advice, pictures on the process will be greatly appreciated...you would be impressed on how this IT guy has prepped the car for off frame restoration, Edited March 15, 2013 by CDN224 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Sounds like a shop manual is in order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 One of the most dangerous mechanical operations on a car, short of welding on a half full gas tank.....usually the spring is under compression even when A arm fully down....spring compressor usually needed, but a lot of stored energy...I borrowed a spring compressor once, and the fellow who owned it told me he'd deny both owning it and loaning it to me if things went wrong....Agree manual is in order...and be careful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37 Pontiac SilverStreak Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I dug out my original manual, (I have all original books and shop manuals for the car), and all it has is this instruction... Im going to study it a bit more, some of the wording is Greek to me, but I learn fast. I don't have a chain hoist, but can raise car 12-16" from the floor, I have 6 stands available, so 8" will be easy to raise... I also have the entire wheel, brake, plates n stuff ready to be removed, as I removed all this previously to inspect and clean the spindle, so they will be naked to work on... By reading this, looks like the pin comes out, the car is lifted back up allowing the bottom a-arm to freely drop when ready, using the wheel to protect you. I wonder... Sounds like a floor jack method, no mention of a compressor tool... But I can obtain as well...When the time comes, I'll borrow my sons hockey gear to wear..manual page: Edited March 15, 2013 by CDN224 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The manual is assuming you are removing the spring using the weight of a FULLY ASSEMBLED/COMPLETE car to keep the spring in compression with the pin removed. Since you have removed a LOT of weight you are in uncharted territory. When you remove the pin the spring may be strong enough to throw the car off the stands..... or not. As others have mentioned you are now trying to disarm a live land mine with out instructions. A QUALITY spring compressor is an absolute must......................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The problem is that the shop manual will direct you to use the special Kent Moore tool...You can use the weight of the car to compress the spring with a floor jack under the lower control arm, but if pieces are missing (like the front end) you may not get enough compression. I bought an internal coil spring compressor years (decades?) ago and have never had a problem. Get a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 What size of floor jack do you have? The little jacks commonly used at home are not big enough. I have removed coil springs using a jack, but it was a long shop jack. For example, if I was removing the passenger's side spring, I would push the jack under the car from the driver's side to support either the outer (pivot pin) end of the lower control arm or the inner (cross shaft) end. I don't have the manual for my 54 Studebaker handy, but it seems to me it recommends undoing the cross shaft to remove the spring. The reason for putting the jack under the car from the opposite side is to get you out of harms way should the spring have a mind of its own. I've seen it happen, and it left a sizeable dent in a heavy warehouse door.Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 ... The reason for putting the jack under the car from the opposite side is to get you out of harms way should the spring have a mind of its own. I've seen it happen, and it left a sizeable dent in a heavy warehouse door.I don't want to downplay the need for proper safety precautions, because clearly there is a lot of stored energy in a compressed spring, but there are also some extremely simple things you can do if you are worried about it. The most basic one is to run a chain loosely around the spring and control arm. At that point, the spring is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brady Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 In addition to Joe's suggestions, you can also chain the frame to your garage floor, presuming you have a well hook embedded into your concrete floor slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 In addition to Joe's suggestions, you can also chain the frame to your garage floor, presuming you have a well hook embedded into your concrete floor slab.:confused:Are you concerned that the FRAME is going to fly around the garage? Sorry, but I've R&R'd dozens of front coil springs. It just isn't that big a deal if you are careful and use the correct tools. Can you do something stupid and get hurt? Sure. The solution is, don't do something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 With enough weight removed from the car, yes the coil spring is strong enough to lift the frame rather than a floor jack's controlled lowering of the A arm. I've seen it happen. Has he removed enough weight for that to happen? Maybe yes, maybe no. Like you said........ Ya'll be careful now, heah................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 With enough weight removed from the car, yes the coil spring is strong enough to lift the frame rather than a floor jack's controlled lowering of the A arm. I've seen it happen. Which is why I posted this a week ago, way up in Post #6:You can use the weight of the car to compress the spring with a floor jack under the lower control arm, but if pieces are missing (like the front end) you may not get enough compression. I bought an internal coil spring compressor years (decades?) ago and have never had a problem. Get a good one.[ATTACH=CONFIG]183047[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 As did I at the end of my post #5. Hopefully he'll listen to the voice of expereance and if not at least not get hurt..................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brady Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The problem is that the shop manual will direct you to use the special Kent Moore tool...You can use the weight of the car to compress the spring with a floor jack under the lower control arm, but if pieces are missing (like the front end) you may not get enough compression. I bought an internal coil spring compressor years (decades?) ago and have never had a problem. Get a good one.[ATTACH=CONFIG]183047[/ATTACH]There are many sugestions in this thread. I too have used the weight of the car to compress the spring with a floor jack under the lower control arm BUT I was confident that I could do so with an A body GM. Now that I'm less prone to taking risks, I also have a good spring compressor.With this particular application, I have no idea if the weight of the car would be sufficient. If CDN224 is not inclined to use a spring compressor but try the floor jack method, Yes, chain the frame to the floor slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete O Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I removed the front springs from my '51 Buick by supporting the frame on jack stands, removing the backing plates, putting a relatively small floor jack under the lower A arms, disconnecting the lower pivots, and slowly letting the jack down. The engine was in the car still. No drama. The springs really weren't compressed all that much when the weight was off the front suspension, and it was at the bottom of it's travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 There are many sugestions in this thread. I too have used the weight of the car to compress the spring with a floor jack under the lower control arm BUT I was confident that I could do so with an A body GM. Now that I'm less prone to taking risks, I also have a good spring compressor.Agreed. My experience is also with A-bodies, and I know from experience that without the engine in the car, you will not have sufficient weight to use a floor jack. That's when I bought the spring compressor. The other advantage of using a spring compressor (at least on the A-body cars) is that the proper installation of the upper end of the spring in the coil pocket in the frame is difficult because it is almost completely blind. Trying to hold it in place while jockeying the floor jack and lower control arm into position requires about five hands. The spring compressor eliminates this problem. Note that for the 1960s GMs (yeah, off topic from the O.P.'s car) the factory service manual process for installing the spring is to mate the ball joint first, install the spring, then use a special Burroughs Tool to pull the lower control arm bushings into place while compressing the spring. This tool is essentially a long threaded rod that goes through the upper shock mount hole in the frame and compresses the spring by bearing against the bottom of the LCA. Two major advantages of this method are 1) the spring is now compressed directly along it's axis - if you mate the LCA bushings first then try to compress the spring to mate the ball joint, you are putting a bend in the spring due to the pivoting of the LCA, and 2) with the tool positioned in the center of the spring, it is physically impossible for the spring to come out during the compression process. I luckily scored one of these factory tools on ebay last year. It's more than just a threaded rod. There are thrust bearings and a hand crank to make it easier to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'll add, by the way, that given all the time we've spent discussing this topic, the O.P. could have gone out and rented a spring compressor and had the springs out, the front end rebuilt, and the car back together by now. It amazes me that in the course of a resto costing tens of thousands of dollars, people don't want to spend a couple of bucks to get the correct tool. I might have mickey-moused something during my impoverished college days, but at this point, life's too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37 Pontiac SilverStreak Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 I'll add, by the way, that given all the time we've spent discussing this topic, the O.P. could have gone out and rented a spring compressor and had the springs out, the front end rebuilt, and the car back together by now. It amazes me that in the course of a resto costing tens of thousands of dollars, people don't want to spend a couple of bucks to get the correct tool. I might have mickey-moused something during my impoverished college days, but at this point, life's too short.Joe,the question is not regarding the speed of the restoration, rather to ask others for advice (since i am a home hobbiest who does not have professional tools, lifts and a staff...) How to safely remove springs on an old application. YouTube, and other forums show removals but not for my era of application. It's best to ask before attempting. I don't care how much a project costs, doing restores and repairs myself completes a great feeling, knowing that I was able to restore a part myself is the reward!my intent to this post was to verify and ask questions, not to debate if safety would be considered or how fast I want to remove the springs. Safety is always my 1st priority. And because I am new to cars... Safety is an absolute first for me... And I wish to learn.thankfully, with some of the information in the posts, I was able to find an internal compression tool, (never knew about them, or seen one, or knew what it was called.. thats how new i am to restorations...) chain, correct floor jack, and ensure correct engine weight plus some additional weight added.. I am able to plan a safe removal.i will have the springs out very soon, along with video, pictures so other new garage enthusiasts like myself can learn from experience.like all posts, I appreciate your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Joe,the question is not regarding the speed of the restoration, rather to ask others for advice (since i am a home hobbiest who does not have professional tools, lifts and a staff...) Trevor, I was not really commenting on the speed of restoration (it's the journey, not the destination, or something like that...), but the fact that frequently on automotive forums there are folks who post asking questions like this and the threads will go on and on and on...The reality is that there are probably two or three safe ways to do any operation. At some point one needs to just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37 Pontiac SilverStreak Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Team,thanks to all who contributed to this thread, I have successfully removed the springs with ease... Along with the engine for cleaning and painting. It wasn't painful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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