Jump to content

Paint colors for 1933 Plymouth PD Convertible Coupe


Recommended Posts

Tom,

So the top of the body bracket is level with the top of the rivet heads, this makes sense. I would also use webbing only where the body contacts a frame bracket and a frame rail.

To answer the earlier question, the webbing is flat with no piping.

This leads to the next question. Is there piped weather strip between body and top of running board splash apron, also what goes between running board and lower splash apron?

Thanks again, Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom,

So the top of the body bracket is level with the top of the rivet heads, this makes sense. I would also use webbing only where the body contacts a frame bracket and a frame rail.

To answer the earlier question, the webbing is flat with no piping.

This leads to the next question. Is there piped weather strip between body and top of running board splash apron, also what goes between running board and lower splash apron?

Thanks again, Chris

Can't say about welting between the running board and the splash apron as that was a mess when I got the car in '73 and I did not take photos when I first dealt with it. Suffice it to say, I can't remember that detail.

However I was a bit more careful in taking pictures when I removed the body from the frame in the '78/'79 time frame. There appears to be no welting or piping between the splash apron and the body. And you can see the fabric and pads and how they fit on the apron, etc. in these photos. I have more photos available on my home file server to look through but getting to them in an easy to browse way from work is hard so these three will have to do for the moment.

post-30650-143142178191_thumb.jpg

post-30650-143142178193_thumb.jpg

post-30650-143142178195_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ply33,

This is very helpful. I can see the small rivet heads on the top of the running board splash apron in photo two. They had to hold something.

The body mount pad looks to be 1/4 or 3/16 inch thick? Once compressed with the weight of the body there will still be clearance between the wood side sill and the top of the rivet head on top of the frame. Back on the drop in the frame above the rear axle there would be webbing on the top of the frame rail.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting these photo's. It is amazing the amount of knowledge on this forum.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
. . . I can see the small rivet heads on the top of the running board splash apron in photo two. They had to hold something. . . .

Seems like you are correct. Here is another view with some canvas showing around a rivet.

The car had been painted a number of times and it looks like the paint got pretty well up in between the splash apron and the body. So either the material did not have a bead or the bead disappeared over the decades.

post-30650-143142178574_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris.

We seem to have lost your last post on the body being suspended, I couldn't log-on last evening for some reason anyway, I think there are 6 fixings per side, the one at the back end is above the gas tank and fixes through the trunk floor where the back section starts, there is 1/2 hole in each piece of metal.

Here is my tank fixing and the first time I have looked at it, I am of the feeling that its not tight enough in appearance, also the strap meets the solid fixing so I will probably fold the felt and double up on it. Not sure that felt is the correct material to use as it will hold moisture.

post-72422-143142184961_thumb.jpg

​The rubber pads attached to the strap are 4" long X 3/8" thick.

post-72422-143142184937_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Tom,

Yes it appears the website was compromised and the last few posts are missing from most threads. I will try to repeat the last one.

My comments were that many folks both in the thread and through private messages had provided excellent input on the body mounting pads etc. There are three body brackets on the frame side rails and also one on the front of the cowl below the firewall (eight total counting both sides). The pads here are made of a canvas like material and they suspend the body over the frame side rails providing clearance above the rivet heads on the top of the frame. Back on the rear of the frame there is body webbing between the body and the frame. The thickness of these pads can also be used to adjust the levelness (?) and position of the body.

Another input was that there is body webbing on the top of the gas tank (between frame and tank) and also on the top of the gas tank straps. This webbing is a little wider than the straps themselves about a 1/4 inch on either side. Grounding of the fuel tank sender is accomplished through the fuel line.

I posted pictures of the rolling chassis, the front fenders,and the progress being made on the rear clip:

post-86357-143142185267_thumb.jpg

The front fenders are not as bad as I had feared:

post-86357-143142185292_thumb.jpg

Some more Chassis views:

post-86357-143142185304_thumb.jpg

The rear clip work is nearing completion. Steve is working on the gas tank apron which looks better than it actually is. Steve will begin assembling the car with the pieces in primer to determine fit and shape. He will do the heavy hammer and dolly work to be sure they fit. He will then disassemble the pieces, prepare the surface for the finish color coat of Durode Gray (dark tan). The body and sheet metal will be one color.

post-86357-143142185316_thumb.jpg

Hope you all enjoy the progress report. Chris

post-86357-143142185252_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142185261_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142185273_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142185279_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142185285_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142185298_thumb.jpg

post-86357-14314218531_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

. . . Here is my tank fixing and the first time I have looked at it, I am of the feeling that its not tight enough in appearance, also the strap meets the solid fixing so I will probably fold the felt and double up on it. Not sure that felt is the correct material to use as it will hold moisture.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]213386[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]213387[/ATTACH]

​The rubber pads attached to the strap are 4" long X 3/8" thick.

First time I had my gas tank off all I found was some canvas strips. Undoubtedly compressed through the years but I can't imagine that they were very thick material to begin with. Your felt looks way to thick not to mention the rubber pads.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the steel toe board! The photos show it to be a little worse than I remember it. The wood floorboard is up side down but you get the idea. The photo of the steel plate around the hand brake lever is from AACA member John Doerfler's car. Note the front edge is bent upwards at an angle that is consistent with the toe board. The reproduction one I bought from N/C industries is flat and will need to be bent.

post-86357-143142192745_thumb.jpg

There is some progress on the gas tank apron. Holes have been filled in left fender. The correct fasteners for the gas tank apron to fender are 1/4-20 Round Head Bolts (aka Stovebolt in the early 30's Chevrolet world).

post-86357-14314219275_thumb.jpg

The floor pan presents a problem. The 1960's fix up included a new floor pan. As you can see the problems are fairly obvious and not just an alignment issue. Steve will reposition the front wood floor board as original. The rear wood floor board is about an inch and a half too long because the new floor pan has an incorrect opening. In order to accommodate the wood floor board we would need to cut the steel floor board back a bit (see earlier posts on this thread). My inclination at present is to leave it alone and trim down the rear of the wood floor board. Left alone there are no problems with clearance with the battery box and raised center of the X Member on frame.

post-86357-143142192781_thumb.jpg

Hope this is informative, Chris

post-86357-143142192731_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192738_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192756_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192762_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192766_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192771_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142192776_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

Thanks for the great photo's! These are for a Dodge but they look just like the Plymouth.

That small hole in the wood floorboard directly behind the hand brake lever plate looks like the access to adjusting the hand brake band?

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave,

Thanks for the great photo's! These are for a Dodge but they look just like the Plymouth.

That small hole in the wood floorboard directly behind the hand brake lever plate looks like the access to adjusting the hand brake band?

Chris

Don't know about adjusting as you are supposed to measure clearances around the drum which you can't do from the top without removing the floor board. I found that when I made a new board without that hole that the top of the adjusting rod pounded the bottom of the floor. I think the hole is there mostly for clearance issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My '35 Dodge is pretty much the same as a '33 Plymouth. Even the transmission case has the same casting numbers on it. When I made up a new front floor I found the floor would not sit down properly. I didn't know about the hole because my van was custom made and the "Dodge parts" end at the metal toe board you're discussing here. So I just took my plunge router and carved a cavity in the bottom of the board for the top of the emergency brake mechanism. Didn't know it was a factory "mistake".

Link to post
Share on other sites
My '35 Dodge is pretty much the same as a '33 Plymouth. Even the transmission case has the same casting numbers on it. . . .

Does it use that same odd shift lever mounting as on the '33 and '34 Plymouth? (Shift lever tower firmly bolted to a frame cross member with the lever extending down into the transmission instead of shift tower part of the transmission.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

No the shift tower is fixed right on the transmission. I've only driven it around the property on tests but I assume the shift lever and the top part of the tower must move side to side with any engine movement. It does have "floating power".

Link to post
Share on other sites
No the shift tower is fixed right on the transmission. I've only driven it around the property on tests but I assume the shift lever and the top part of the tower must move side to side with any engine movement. It does have "floating power".

Very interesting. . . It is my understanding that the '35 models had synchros while the '33 and '34 Plymouth models did not. Only had sliding dog clutches. That implies that one could fit a '35 transmission on a '33 or '34 to get synchros and the only difference would be needing to use the '33/'34 top cover.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK we might be into apples and oranges here. The 3 years of Commercial Car chassis made by Dodge for '33,'34 and '35 are all based on the '33 Dodge DP car chassis and front clip. I can't remember if I had to double clutch the '35 or not the last time I had it out. I only drove it around my acreage and I don't think I got it much out of 1st gear. Was just trying to see what things I had messed up in the restoration of the chassis. Was sitting on a box. I "think" the tranny is a crash box the same as the '33 Dodge DP which is basically a '33 Plymouth PD.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dodge KCL and PLY33, I will take a picture of my 33 PD Transmission and shift tower.

Below are some photo's of the 1933 PD front fenders. At least there are no rust outs, major tears, and dents. Having said this there is a lot of work to do to get these back into shape.

post-86357-143142198029_thumb.jpg

I have begun work on the front panel of the package tray. More work this weekend before I can show the results.

Chris

post-86357-143142197955_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197962_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197969_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197975_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197981_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197987_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142197993_thumb.jpg

post-86357-1431421980_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142198006_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142198012_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142198017_thumb.jpg

post-86357-143142198023_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Are the 33-34 Ply front fenders the same?

No. And in fact there are at least three different front fenders for '33. On '33 the rear fenders are different between sedans and coupes.

The '34 is more rounded than the '33 in all respects and the '34 front fenders are quite different.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I never paid much attention to the KC(L)s that followed mine ( I had enough on my plate trying to fiqure out what I had.) but Ply33 got my interest going. I looked at the parts photos and lists for the '35 KC,I have the original Model K Series parts list (which includes the larger tonnage trucks as well), and lo and behold the 1st series KC,suicide doors, had a crash box and the 2nd series,regular doors, had syncro in,I guess,2nd and 3rd. The break was at 891,1001 so since my serial number is 807,1921 I have a non syncro tranny. I'll now leave it to you owners out there to confirm this since I've learned to not trust Chrylser of those early years. The change may have occured at 891,1001 or not and there may have been non syncros trannies put in a few chassis many months later to use them up. I just don't trust the remaining documents.

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some additional photos. The windshield parts turned out nicely done by Speed and Sport Chrome Platers of Houston. They specialize in pot metal and can repair just about anything.

IMG_1608.jpg

IMG_1607.jpg

IMG_1604.jpg

IMG_1605.jpg

My windshield frame uses a pin that moves within the knob to position windshield frame up and down.

IMG_1604.jpg

But why do it just one way??? Here is John's 1933 Plymouth PD convertible coupe.

IMG_1527.jpg

Hope you enjoy these. Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott,

The dimension center to center is 2 and 3/4 inch. The hole size is close to 3/16 inch. Barrel nuts attach them to frame.

IMG_1246.jpg

IMG_1248.jpg

IMG_1593.jpg

John's PD convertible has a rubber bumper. I will try to get a photo of it. Even then it may not be correct so others with these cars should feel free to chime in. all 33 and 34 Plymouths, Dodges, Desotos and Small Chryslers shared these windshield frames including the convertible sedans.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott,

The barrel nut goes to the outside of the frame. The five holes drilled in the center of the top bar are 1/4 inch. The mirror bracket holes are 3/16 inch, the frame holes are 1/4 inch and accommodate the barrel nut (sleeve nut) side of the fastening hardware. I think 3/16 is actually Number 10 and is for the thread size so a Number 10 oval head screw chrome or nickel plated with a number 10 barrel nut. The OD on barrel nut is why the hole is 1/4 inch in the top bar. Hope I am making sense here. In my research the barrel nuts are available nickel plated from Restoration Specialties in Pennsylvania. Page 212 of their catalog. Bolts sold separately. Hope this helps Chris

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

DodgeKCL and Ply33,

Here are pictures of 1933 PD transmission. The shift lever mounts to top of cross member and parts extend down into the top of the transmission. The engine could not move very much within the limits of the motor mounts given you would lose touch with the top of the transmission? How did they keep water out of the transmission case?

IMG_1615.jpg

IMG_1614.jpg

IMG_1616.jpg

IMG_1617.jpg

IMG_1618.jpg

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
DodgeKCL and Ply33,

Here are pictures of 1933 PD transmission. The shift lever mounts to top of cross member and parts extend down into the top of the transmission. The engine could not move very much within the limits of the motor mounts given you would lose touch with the top of the transmission? How did they keep water out of the transmission case?. . .

The parts book lists a seal or boot that goes between the transmission and the frame cross member. I've never seen an original so I don't know what it looks like. I used a piece of radiator hose cut to fit the spacing and diameter chosen to just sit over the lip you see on the transmission.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris--Thanks again for all of the photos and info, motivating me to get my 34 convert on the road. On the frames interchanging, that does appear to be true of at least the 33 and 34 Plymouth converts, which matches up with the part books that show the same part numbers for both. I don't know about other Mopar products and I offer as an example a couple of photos of a set of very similar windshield posts, slightly differenct reveal, glass channel more centered, slight differences throughout. Maybe Ed Peterson or Jim Benjaminson of the Plymouth club have an answer. Keep up the good work on your 33. SMB post-89602-143142201795_thumb.jpg

post-89602-143142201788_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Scott,

Is it possible the windshield post that has the squared off reveal at the top is from a 1931-1932 Chevrolet Cabriolet? They used the same configuration, not the same parts. The method to fix the windshield up or down was just like John Doerfler's Plymouth PD. Chevy did not use a pin on a knob.

What does your Dodge parts book show on the part numbers?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris--Spent some time looking at photos on the web, think you are right on the posts, probably 31 Chevy cabriolet. As to the part numbers on the Mopar windshield posts, my books show all the same numbers for the posts and the insert glass channel run for the 33 PD Plymouth, 33 DP Dodge, 34 PE Plymouth and 34 DR Dodge. Those numbers are:

Right Windshield Post 452142; Left Windshield Post 452143; Right Glass Run 452435; Left Glass Run 452436.

On the discussion we had regarding the rear view mirror, I think your 33 and my 34, although they use the same posts and brackets, have different rear view mirrors. The ball stud and pivot shown in your pictures is similar to the bracket I have seen on 33 closed cars, although the actual attaching bracket is different--closed cars the attaching plate has a bend in it such that the screws attach vertically instead of horizontally into the convertible top windshield frame. The 34 cars have a similar bracket but the mirror clamp is different, it being formed from one 'cup shaped' bracket into which slides a lower half, adjusted with a long machine screw. I am betting, since the parts books show that the 34 rear view mirror bracket and clamp assembly, 625549, is a 'new' number, never used by Plymouth before. The 33 is listed as two separate parts, a 610284 bracket and a 610288 'clamp assembly'. That description matches up with what your photos show on your 33. I am betting that the 34 is similar to the closed car except chrome and attached horizontally to the top windshield frame. Something else for me to try to find. Thanks again Chris. SMB

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Scott, especially for the research.

The bracket with the ball stud holds the little three piece bracket shown below. These I bought from NC Industries back in the 1990's. It works well but I can't tell you for sure if it is correct for Convertibles. It is available painted or chrome plated. It came with a piece of rubber as well.

IMG_1641.jpg

IMG_1639.jpg

IMG_1637.jpg

It would be nice if others with 1933 and 1934 Plymouths and Dodges would show pictures of their attachment brackets as this would show variation from year to year and model to model.

The difference between clamp assemblies on closed bodies and convertibles may be just the black paint or chrome plated.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris--

Here are a couple of photos of the standard closed car rear view mirror. It mounts through the header panel into the body at the top edge of the windshield opening. Obviously, this type will not fit any of the open cars, 33 or 34, where the mirror bracket attaches directly to the windshield frame. At least the 34 parts books show only one type for any of the closed cars and I have never seen any other style than this one on a 34 closed car. Hope this helps somebody. SMBpost-89602-143142207327_thumb.jpg

post-89602-143142207301_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike and Scott,

I do not know how to post this as a private e mail and than again there are probably others who have an interest in these dimensions. I have fabricated my own package tray front edge in threes pieces (additional pieces will be added as well). The dimensions requested below will enable me to weld the three pieces I have made together. Let me know if you have these dimensions.

1933PlymouthPDDimensionalData1280x989.jpg

Thanks, Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris--I don't have those dimensions that I can represent as 'original'. Attached is a photo of my convertible when we dug it out of a ditch in the mountains--the seat surround had been cut out, so we 'estimated' the distance when we fabricated a replacement, based upon photos. upon where the top bows fold up, i.e., the bows have to clear the seat surround and fit into the well, and that the seat has to nestle into the surround. The photo of the red 34 convertible under resto that is in this thread further up is the major source I used for creating the replacement. SMBpost-89602-143142221364_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...