RIVIERA RATTLE - FIRST GENERATION - CAUSE AND REPAIR

[Mr Riviera]

The infamous Riviera Rattle - 1st. Generation - This problem keeps coming up and while most agree that its the fuel lines causing the rattle , I would like to have some folks comment on where they found the problem and the fix . I have never had the problem but many have . Seems that its only A/C cars . This has been covered in the Review in the past but not detailed facts as to what the owners found and the fix . Hope you can help guide those that have the problem .

[Mr Riviera]

The infamous Riviera Rattle - 1st. Generation - This problem keeps coming up and while most agree that its the fuel lines causing the rattle , I would like to have some folks comment on where they found the problem and the fix . I have never had the problem but many have . Seems that its only A/C cars . This has been covered in the Review in the past but not detailed facts as to what the owners found and the fix . Hope you can help guide those that have the problem .

Any comments from Tom M , Jim C or Ed R ??????

[Jim Cannon]

I wrote a lengthy reply. The system threw it away. I don't have time to rewrite it all right now. I will try to do so tonight or tomorrow.

[1965rivgs]

Hydraulic hammering in the fuel line. Pull up an image of a `66 A/C fuel pump and it will be apparent how Buick changed the pump to deal with the problem. Hope this helps,

Tom

[Jim Cannon]

Tom has the cause defined correctly.

The rattle occurs back where the steel pipes of an A/C-equipped car run along the frame and then a rubber fuel line connects to the smaller steel line. It is the return line from the fuel filter.

The fix is to take a piece of 5/16" fuel hose, about 4 inches long, split it lengthwise, and slip it over the steel line (and some of the rubber line) between the line and the frame. Push it toward the front of the car to jam it in there so it will stay. You have now inserted a sound insulator between the steel line that rattles against the frame.

From my observations, it will rattle the next time you drive the car after you droving it and got it hot enough for vapor to be inside the return line. The next time you drive, you are sending a solid stream of liquid out of the fuel filter vent port and back to the fuel tank. When the leading edge of the liquid gets back by the frame, it rattles because the diaphragm style fuel filter sends the fuel out in pulses.

[Guest carlbraun]

When I forst bought my 65 Riviera GS it had an electric fuel pump in conjunction with the stock mechanical pump. When i decided to get rid of the ugly wiring and elec fuel pump the car ran great on just the mechanical pump (an NOS AC original pump). After removing the elec pump the car developed a tick like a bad lifter or a light rod knock. I talked to my musclecar mechanic about it and he proceeded to tie down the whole steel line system with rubber u clips...that didnt help...ONLY reinstalling the elec fuel pump solved the ticking problem.

the car is now apart for restoration and Im interested in learning more about the 66 pump vs the 65 pump...maybe its a solution when i put it back together.

Comments?

[Riviera63]

On 3/11/2013 at 3:35 PM, Mr Riviera said:

The infamous Riviera Rattle - 1st. Generation - This problem keeps coming up and while most agree that its the fuel lines causing the rattle , I would like to have some folks comment on where they found the problem and the fix . I have never had the problem but many have . Seems that its only A/C cars . This has been covered in the Review in the past but not detailed facts as to what the owners found and the fix . Hope you can help guide those that have the problem .

 

My car is in having the "Riviera Rattle" taken care of. They have dropped the tank as they could see the inlet/outlet of the sending unit is hitting the trunk floor.

 

The "Riviera Rattle" has been solved. They found 3 areas where the rattle was occurring. The tank was rubbing back near the fuel filler neck. (pictures 1 & 2) The sending unit inlet/outlet was making contact with the trunk floor (pictures 3 & 4) They used different clamps that would not protrude as far up as the old clamps and they put topper tape along the top of the fuel tank to create  some separation between the fuel tank and the underside of the car. They also ran a new ground wire from the sending unit for me. (pictures 5-7) To fix the frame rattle they just put rubber fuel line around the metal line as suggested earlier in the thread to keep it from rattling. I am glad this has been resolved. While not a problem that will keep you from driving the car it is one of those annoyances that drives you crazy. I hope this will be a help for others suffering from this problem.  

 

Bill

 

 

[rapom]

I have a rattle that jingles when I hit a bump and it comes from the rear on the driver's side.

 

Is this the rattle you guys are talking about?

 

 I thought it might be the brake cable but everything looks tight.

 I pulled the rear brake drums and all the components looked tight.

 

 I was going to throughly check this out in this winter.

[Seafoam65]

No, hitting a bump has nothing to do with the rattle they are talking about. The Riviera rattle is a pulsing metallic thump coming from underneath the back of the car

even when it is sitting still and not moving, but with the engine  running.

[KongaMan]

Seems to me that the issue here is the tank and/or fuel line hitting the body.  On some cars, normal vibration is enough; on others, it may take a jolt to knock them together.  In the end, it might be the same issue, no?

 

What happens if you loosen the tank straps, slide something (e.g a piece off wood or thick rubber) between the top of the tank and the body, then tighten the straps?  And it's still not clear why dropping the tank a fraction of an inch (i.e. putting some washers on the bolt between the strap and the frame) wouldn't solve the problem in some cases.

[Wedgewood64]

On 3/15/2013 at 2:58 PM, Jim Cannon said:

Tom has the cause defined correctly.

The rattle occurs back where the steel pipes of an A/C-equipped car run along the frame and then a rubber fuel line connects to the smaller steel line. It is the return line from the fuel filter.

The fix is to take a piece of 5/16" fuel hose, about 4 inches long, split it lengthwise, and slip it over the steel line (and some of the rubber line) between the line and the frame. Push it toward the front of the car to jam it in there so it will stay. You have now inserted a sound insulator between the steel line that rattles against the frame.

From my observations, it will rattle the next time you drive the car after you droving it and got it hot enough for vapor to be inside the return line. The next time you drive, you are sending a solid stream of liquid out of the fuel filter vent port and back to the fuel tank. When the leading edge of the liquid gets back by the frame, it rattles because the diaphragm style fuel filter sends the fuel out in pulses.

Returning to an old thread. When I had the tank out a while back I tried Jim Cannon's trick. While it improved the "rattle," it didn't make it go away entirely. Here are some photos: in one, you can see the whole length--must be at least 6" of line. What did I do wrong?

[Jim Cannon]

Slide the rubber hose up next to the clamp in your second picture. This will jam the lines away from each other and tight into the clamp.

 

 

[telriv]

IF indeed the rattle is coming from the clamp or area of the clamp what I would do is to remove the clamp, clean some rust off the lines & clamp, maybe even paint them, take some electrical or wrapping tape & 1st. wrap each line one or two times then wrap them both together one or two times & re-install clamp.

ALL your trying to do is keep the lines from rattling against each other & rattling within the clamp.  This will secure them together more tightly with less chance of eventually rubbing a hole in one or both pipes.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[moran75]

18 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

Slide the rubber hose up next to the clamp in your second picture. This will jam the lines away from each other and tight into the clamp.

 

 

Used Jim’s method when researched mine a while ago...simple and it worked for me

 

kev

[Wedgewood64]

Well, not so simple for me, I don't know why. I tried getting the hose as close to the clamp as possible. No dice. Then I started putting in little wedges of cork here and there, just to make sure no vibrations were possible. (photo 1) No better. then I decided to try to put the hose over the line where it clamps--so clamping the hose and line together. To do that, b/c the clamp isn't big enough, I needed to leave out the feed line--so have only return line clamped. (photo 2) Left it like that as an experiment; but though it's a little better, it's still hammering away. When I go over to the line as it's occurring, I can feel it basically all up and down the steel line. It's strongest on the fuel tank side, but very perceptible under the rockers, which is why, when you're in the car, it's hard to tell where the sound is coming from--it's the whole line that's hammering.

 

I'm stumped as to why mine is so resistant to the easy fix, but so it is. Now, as a last ditch effort, why not simply bypass the steel line with rubber hose zip-tied to the old lines? It could hammer all it wants, but since the hammering wouldn't be transmitted to the body via the clamps... I know it wouldn't be pretty, but... it's better than the rattle.... Any other reason not to try this, aside from aesthetics?

[telriv]

Just do what I said on ALL the clamps that hold both lines together from the front to the rear. This way they are isolated from one another & the clamps.  In my mind easier to do than trying the hose trick which does also work in many instances BUT it appears not to be the fix for your car.

Could be the fuel pump is starting to go bad also causing the hammering noise.  Try the tape 1st.

Been there done that.

 

Tom T.

[gungeey]

Rubber hose is going to come awful close to the resonators on the exhaust but yes will work. 

The riviera rattle is hydraulic hammer from air trapped in the upper bend of the return line of your a/c equipped car. its not from metal on metal, clamps banging etc. It's like the banging you get in cast iron pipes from a furnace. It sounds like a big lifter noise coming from the passenger rear seat. If that's the noise your talking about it's coming from inside the tube fuel line. Some cars get it more than others,it comes and goes.Some cars don't get it at all but it's normal in these cars.

 

 

[RivNut]

When is the last time you changed fuel filters?  Would a restriction in the return line cause the RR?

[Wedgewood64]

@ Ed, I was kind of wondering that myself; it has been a few years. It may help. I will try it. It's true that the problem does come and go. It's particularly annoying right now--now that I put new sound insulation in the whole interior...

I would tend to think that if the lines were truly insulated with rubber, then the transmission of the hammering into the chassis wouldn't occur. The problem seems to me, though, that I'd essentially have to fit new clamps, b/c the stock ones leave no space for rubber insulation. Like gungeey, inspecting my lines, I'd say that there's no movement of the lines themselves--that's not where the sound comes from.

But I'm hesitating as to the least messy method. I'm pretty sure the hose solution would work, but it would look a little sloppy. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to go to the bother of changing all the clamps, only to find out that it was still detectable. @Telriv, I wasn't sure if you'd done this operation or if it just seemed like it should work.

[RivNut]

Forget originality.  Remount the lines away from each other - you're not doing cost accounting to satisfy your stockholders - and mount each line separately.  Use some insulated clamps and get the two lines away from each other. 

 

[telriv]

I've done this in the recent past & wrapping using the method I used has worked for me over the hose trick.

 

Tom T.

[Wedgewood64]

An update from Rattletown.

The first thing I tried was rerouting the lines away from one another, insulating each with insulated clamps. See photo.

One thing that I was able to ascertain by doing this was that the rattle was clearly, 100% coming from the intake line (the larger one), not the return line. The other was that.... it didn't stop the rattle. It reduced it considerably. But the hammering was still working its way through the rubber to the bolts holding the clamps, and it was easily detectible.

The second thing I tried was a new fuel pump and filter. No dice.

Eventually I think I'm going to try to route a rubber line.

Nick

 

[Jim Cannon]

Or just get used to it and let it go. Mine comes and goes. It does not hurt anything.

 

😎 

[1965rivgs]

Nick,

  Try loosening the fuel tank straps and creating some space between the top of the fuel tank and the trunk floor. No need to completely drop the tank, just lower it. Or..If you`re ambitious now may be a good time to replace the original hoses.

Tom Mooney