1930 DA-124

[30DodgePanel]

Hi guys,

I need help with a few questions.

This engine was pulled from a 29 Graham Panel. Can anyone tell me what kind of 6 cylinder this is (DA DD DC ...etc) ? Engine number towards the front on the passenger side looks like it reads H65-470. Looks like a DA but why is the generator on the passenger side ?

Also, Sherman,

This air filter and vent tube appears to be the same as yours. My only question is what does the vent side look like ? The side facing the firewall where the vent tube ties into the filter ...does it have vent holes for the centrifical effect that I've read about ?

According to my owners manual (pictured below) the air filter and vent tube in this photo are not correct, what do you guys think ?

This is the engine I'm referring to:

Air filter and vent tube from my owners manual.

[stakeside]

Hi guys,

I need help with a few questions.

This engine was pulled from a 29 Graham Panel. Can anyone tell me what kind of 6 cylinder this is (DA DD DC ...etc) ? Engine number towards the front on the passenger side looks like it reads H65-470. Looks like a DA but why is the generator on the passenger side ?

Also, Sherman,

This air filter and vent tube appears to be the same as yours. My only question is what does the vent side look like ? The side facing the firewall where the vent tube ties into the filter ...does it have vent holes for the centrifical effect that I've read about ?

According to my owners manual (pictured below) the air filter and vent tube in this photo are not correct, what do you guys think ?

This is the engine I'm referring to:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]187933[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]187934[/ATTACH]

Air filter and vent tube from my owners manual.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]187935[/ATTACH]

Looks like a Victory 6 to me. The generator is on the passenger side. Mine are DA 6's. H79864 and H88314.

Tehcarb looks like my Steward and the air cleaner looks like mine also.

[30DodgePanel]

Looks like a Victory 6 to me. The generator is on the passenger side. Mine are DA 6's. H79864 and H88314.

Tehcarb looks like my Steward and the air cleaner looks like mine also.

Have you ever found a factory illustrated photo for your carb, filter and vent tube ?

The filter and vent tube is what I'm trying to focus on for my truck. I don't believe your filter and vent tube applies to my application but I'm dying to know who the manufacturer of our filters were. I believe Carter were used in the 4 cyl applications but I still haven't ran into anything clarifying who the manufacturers may have been for the different 6 cyl applications like we see in these photos above. I'm guessing if I find out who the manufacturer of your filter was then I'll find the same company made my filter also ?

Edited April 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Thanks Jason. It would be good to have an example of the 24" wood spoke. I have not come across one yet.

I've wondered if this was an example of those 24" wheels since I came across this photo of a 1926 Graham Brothers truck. It doesn't mention the size but I would think these are bigger than the 20" wood spoke wheels because the chassis appears longer, but I guess they could be the 20" wheels too..

Edited April 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Victory six engines began with letter M. I agree that it looks like the Victory but I would have to look into it further to try and clarify some things and maybe get a better answer.

[30DodgePanel]

Victory six engines began with letter M. I agree that it looks like the Victory but I would have to look into it further to try and clarify some things and maybe get a better answer.

I asked the owner of that engine if he could tell me what the numbers and letters were on it by taking another closer look since it's hard to tell from the photo. He said he'd get back to me on it later today. It's unclear what the prefix is at this point, guess I shouldn't have assumed it was an H code, thats the first time I heard that Victories began with an M.

Jason were the Victory 6's all marked in the same locale from your understanding ?

[30DodgePanel]

Ok guys,,, I know I'm gonna get thrashed for this but I have to ask. I was just entertaining the thought of something different so bear with me.

Were there any other types of wood that were used on the structures of these trucks other than Oak?

and

Is it possible to use a local wood for my truck and still maintain originality ?

I've never liked Oak ! I've worked with it all my life and have just never cared for it. So,, can I use Mesquite or would that be to much of an alteration and throw it into the custom or ratrod category ? Since the truck is now in Arizona and Mesquite is native to these parts I was hoping it would be allowed as a natural possibility. If not Mesquite then what are my other options that may have been used from the factory (besides Oak) ?

I'm not considering it to be different but rather, I just like the grain in Mesquite because it has so much more character than the uniformity of Mahogany or Oak.

[Guest 1930]

Ok guys,,, I know I'm gonna get thrashed for this but I have to ask. I was just entertaining the thought of something different so bear with me.

Were there any other types of wood that were used on the structures of these trucks other than Oak?

and

Is it possible to use a local wood for my truck and still maintain originality ?

I've never liked Oak ! I've worked with it all my life and have just never cared for it. So,, can I use Mesquite or would that be to much of an alteration and throw it into the custom or ratrod category ? Since the truck is now in Arizona and Mesquite is native to these parts I was hoping it would be allowed as a natural possibility. If not Mesquite then what are my other options that may have been used from the factory (besides Oak) ?

I'm not considering it to be different but rather, I just like the grain in Mesquite because it has so much more character than the uniformity of Mahogany or Oak.

Hotrodder....Ratrodder.....Toothless hillbilly

Edited April 13, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Seriously though, I have documentation that states that Graham chose their assy plants in specific locals because of the abundant natural resources that were avail in that area. I know for a fact that there were a variety of woods used in building these trucks throughout the trucks.

That would lead me to believe that some of the wood had to be imported thru truck and more likely rail car from other locals. I do not know what Mesquite is like, I also have partaken quite a bit in woodworking but I am not familiar with that variety.

I would try and use a wood that has the same long lasting deep density that was originally used, you do not want to do things twice and it would be nice to think that you are preserving the truck for future generations by building/repairing a long lasting skeleton.

Other than that I would not care so much what anyone else thought and ask them if they have some negative remark where their wooden project is sitting.

[Guest 1930]

I asked the owner of that engine if he could tell me what the numbers and letters were on it by taking another closer look since it's hard to tell from the photo. He said he'd get back to me on it later today. It's unclear what the prefix is at this point, guess I shouldn't have assumed it was an H code, thats the first time I heard that Victories began with an M.

Jason were the Victory 6's all marked in the same locale from your understanding ?

As far as I know they were all marked in the same approximate location but I will look into it further and get a more definitive answer.

[R.White]

Here in England all timber restoration and coachbuilding is done (and always has been) with Ash. With respect, we would not use Oak. On the other hand if you wanted your work to last indefinitely - and I jest - you could try Southern Live Oak which is unbelievably tough and would probably blunt your tools in short order!

Ray.

[stakeside]

Here in England all timber restoration and coachbuilding is done (and always has been) with Ash. With respect, we would not use Oak. On the other hand if you wanted your work to last indefinitely - and I jest - you could try Southern Live Oak which is unbelievably tough and would probably blunt your tools in short order!

Ray.

All my wood was replaced with white oak. It works well and looks good as I have posted pictures in many trends. I am considering painting the wood black as original but like the look of the oak.

The original pattern pieces were oak. Definitely not ash or mahogany. White oak is very plentiful in the Stockton area where mine was built. Do not know of other areas. Another thing is to consider the the way the sawn or grain type.

[30DodgePanel]

Hotrodder....Ratrodder.....Toothless hillbilly

Ha ha !! Don't temp me ... I'ma fixin to use that one for my sig son

Very curious to know what other options were made available...

Olive Ash is another one I'm hoping to incorporate and any recommendations to use something that will last is part of my consideration because of the many factors you and Ray have touched on already. I know this is a long ways down the road but this is one of the most intriguing aspects of the work that I'll have to contend with in my opinion. Believe it or not I'm even thinking of using several different types of wood in different locations because I think it will bring a more uniformed look because of the grain in certain cuts that will need to be made.

Hard to get into someones mind but I think the truck deserves a deep Mesquite rustic matted look with a Hickory and Ash feel ....if that makes any sense.

I'm also very curious to know what finishes I have to choose from. As I've said I like the matted or low sheen feel and am a strong believer in fillers and stains to achieve both a uniformed look and something that will last much longer and the foundation will be key to longevity.

Here in the southwest the sun and low humidity can dry anything out, no matter how many mills or coats one applies for top coats. As you said, I only want to do this once and I really don't have the luxury of a climate controlled museum so the truck will be exposed to these brutally hot elements at times, it's just a fact because I do plan on driving it regularly.

Disclaimer:

To the guys who choose Oak no offense meant, it's a very respectable choice and has some very good qualities but I have simply grown tired of the grain from my years of working with it.

[30DodgePanel]

Another thing is to consider the the way the sawn or grain type.

Yep, thats exactly one of my main concerns. You nailed it... pun intended

EDIT:

Sherman, if you paint your Oak black you will no longer have permission to post in this thread .

Seriously though, you've done a stand up job on that woodwork. My vote would be to leave it purdy..

Edited April 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

The engine code should be "M". I wonder if GB even had the DA 6. If so there not be many.

Dave:

My S114xxx truck has the same carb/air silencer setup as shown in your picture. The S115xxx had the Stromberg U2 carb. Do not know what was the air silencer used.The previous picture posted shows your engine and the carb appears to be the Stromberg U2.

This should the one.

[R.White]

Disclaimer:

To the guys who choose Oak no offense meant, it's a very respectable choice and has some very good qualities but I have simply grown tired of the grain from my years of working with it.

Did you know there are some 75 different species of Oak in America - amazing!

[30DodgePanel]

The engine code should be "M". I wonder if GB even had the DA 6. If so there not be many.

Dave:

My S114xxx truck has the same carb/air silencer setup as shown in your picture. The S115xxx had the Stromberg U2 carb. Do not know what was the air silencer used.The previous picture posted shows your engine and the carb appears to be the Stromberg U2.

This should the one.

Thanks Sherman

Are you talking about the carb in the illustrated photo from my owners manual I posted or of the parts engine? My correct Carb is actually a Zenith 114 1/2 as described in the MPB as well as my owners manual/instruction manual, just need a rebuild kit and she should be good to go. I've read and heard many people say that Stromberg U2 was correct for the DB trucks but I must insist, that is not true for my application. So I guess since yours has the Strommy then that may explain why the difference in the appearance in the air filter ?? just guessing

Heres a look at the Zenith I picked up that is ready for a rebuild. The air filter was incorrect for my application so I let another DB owner have it that was interested. Don't ask me how I located one, I was very fortunate and the price was a steal.

EDIT:

Sherman, for clarification notice the 3/4 - 1 1/2 tons with the DA6 used the 114 1/2 EX or AX version of the Zenith, while the 2-3 1/2 tons with the Senior engine used the 116 1/2 Zenith. BTW there is a 116 1/2 on the bigboard right now that has some good parts on it if someone is interested for a larger truck IF you have the Senior engine.This photo in the MPB shows the 116 1/2 while the page on the right specificies the correct parts for the 114 1/2 with the cross mount flange, notice the overhead view of the 114 1/2 parts. I'm guessing the AX version of the 114 1/2 had the regular mount flange. Very unique information that I don't believe to many have touched on. Also, you'll find that some parts are interchangable within the 116 1/2 and the smaller 114 1/2.

Edited April 14, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Did you know there are some 75 different species of Oak in America - amazing!

Interesting...,

no, I did not know that

[30DodgePanel]

I wonder if David (DC-8Dave) would mind posting ?

David if you wouldn't mind, I'd love your opinion in regards to the possibilities of using different types of woods and what the pros and cons would be according to your experience. You know my intention is not to alter the originality of these historic vehicles but I'd love to find a wood more suitable for my tastes. Would Hickory or Wormed Maple have been a possibility ?

Imagine a bit darker filller and stain with a uniformed matted finish. This is an example of the Hickory samples I would like to possibly use. Also, what are everyones thoughts on fillers, sealers and finish coats ?

Edited April 14, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I think these panel trucks are the nicest looking trucks ever built

Fixed that for ya

Thanks for the compliment,,, I couldn't agree more

Edited April 14, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

When I commented earlier I had mis-read this portion of your post.........Were there any other types of wood that were used on the structures of these trucks...........I missed the structure part so I will clarify by saying that I would guess that what was used structurally would have prob. been used throughout. I say this because of expansion/contraction. Ideally you would not want two different varieties of wood mated to one another that are going to behave differently.

Just to add I do also know as mentioned that there was a wide variety of wood used throughout the trucks and car still at this time pulling non structural duties.

I would go with what was there originally if it were me.

[Guest 1930]

I asked the owner of that engine if he could tell me what the numbers and letters were on it by taking another closer look since it's hard to tell from the photo. He said he'd get back to me on it later today. It's unclear what the prefix is at this point, guess I shouldn't have assumed it was an H code, thats the first time I heard that Victories began with an M.

Jason were the Victory 6's all marked in the same locale from your understanding ?

All in the same location from what I have read

[30DodgePanel]

When I commented earlier I had mis-read this portion of your post.........Were there any other types of wood that were used on the structures of these trucks...........I missed the structure part so I will clarify by saying that I would guess that what was used structurally would have prob. been used throughout. I say this because of expansion/contraction. Ideally you would not want two different varieties of wood mated to one another that are going to behave differently.

Just to add I do also know as mentioned that there was a wide variety of wood used throughout the trucks and car still at this time pulling non structural duties.

I would go with what was there originally if it were me.

Yeah I may still do that...

as I said , I'm just entertaining the thought of using a different wood. I understand what you mean in regards to expansion contraction and how seperate woods may not be compatible with each other. I'm definately taking everything into consideration and appreciate the advice.

[stakeside]

I've wondered if this was an example of those 24" wheels since I came across this photo of a 1926 Graham Brothers truck. It doesn't mention the size but I would think these are bigger than the 20" wood spoke wheels because the chassis appears longer, but I guess they could be the 20" wheels too..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]187979[/ATTACH]

This a great candidate for the DEW 33x4 1/2 wood spokes. Sure looks a lot bigger than my DE 31x5.25 wood spokes.

I received a page from Jason titled " Major Specifications of the Commercial Truck Chassis" models DE, DEW, and DEF, and this is my reference source. There is a pencil note on the page stating "Victory Engine" but the tire specs also applies to my DA-6.

Thanks you all for information.

[30DodgePanel]

Just received a phone call from the owner of the 6 cylinder engine that you all thought may have been a Victory. He stated the number on the engine is J85-478 with an X20 directly below that. So, I assume this may not be a Victory 6 or anything I can use then ?

[Guest 1930]

Just received a phone call from the owner of the 6 cylinder engine that you all thought may have been a Victory. He stated the number on the engine is J85-478 with an X20 directly below that. So, I assume this may not be a Victory 6 or anything I can use then ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]188268[/ATTACH]

J would be a standard six engine, it is possibly ( most likely ) the truck version of the standard six as was used. Standard six and Victory six engines have much in common. First came the Senior in 27, Standard is late 27 I believe ( but would have to verify that ) and then Victory.

Shortly after the DA

I am not very familiar with the standard but can verify I believe that the X-20 is going to again indicate something oversized internally, possibly a replacement motor.....I just cannot remember at this point.

Edited April 15, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

If you do not mind explain to me again why you are not using the engine within the truck or the spare engine you pulled or was pulled from the coupe, my memory is not that good.

I would buy the standard six anyway if it is local and you can get it cheap enough, maybe a couple hundred dollars tops in my opinion.

[30DodgePanel]

If you do not mind explain to me again why you are not using the engine within the truck or the spare engine you pulled or was pulled from the coupe, my memory is not that good.

I would buy the standard six anyway if it is local and you can get it cheap enough, maybe a couple hundred dollars tops in my opinion.

I'll try and make it brief:

If you recall, the previous owner had to hunt down an engine in order to secure a title. Using that code he was then able to do so since the engine was in the truck and pleased the CA DMV. Only problem is, the 3 speed tranny that is original for this truck doesn't line up due to the larger size mounting area. 2 " difference and 2-4 more bolt pattern if memory serves me correct...

So, I then found the Coupe donor for a good value but am concerned that it won't be original enough which is what lead me to keep the door open for another engine in the future....(theirs the hillbilly redneck in me coming out....too many engines and not enough trees...)

Anyway, I helped another DB owner out with a local purchase recently and he told me about this engine and axles in Mohave CA that may help me out. And this engine we are discussing is a result of that, only problem is he wants $500 for the engine, tranny, axles and wheels but I have no space or use for other parts at this point and he will not seperate the parts. If the engine and tranny were correct I could justify it but since they are not, I can't pull the trigger or waste the time on it.

Back to the engine thats in the truck currently. It's siezed and will need a complete overhaul. I'd love to use it but I'd have to figure out how to mate it with the correct 3 speed tranny but I simply haven't gotten to that point yet in my research to even know if it's possible. The Coupe donor runs but as we talked about, the internals are different and I really want to be able to use the correct carb setup with the Zenith 114 1/2 cross mount flange and that would mean I'd have to either get the siezed engine in the truck running or convert the exhaust manifold over to the Coupe donor but the more I study, the more I doubt that will be possible...

So, I think you get the idea now..

Edited April 15, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Ok guys,,, I know I'm gonna get thrashed for this but I have to ask. I was just entertaining the thought of something different so bear with me.

Were there any other types of wood that were used on the structures of these trucks other than Oak?

and

Is it possible to use a local wood for my truck and still maintain originality ?

I've never liked Oak ! I've worked with it all my life and have just never cared for it. So,, can I use Mesquite or would that be to much of an alteration and throw it into the custom or ratrod category ? Since the truck is now in Arizona and Mesquite is native to these parts I was hoping it would be allowed as a natural possibility. If not Mesquite then what are my other options that may have been used from the factory (besides Oak) ?

I'm not considering it to be different but rather, I just like the grain in Mesquite because it has so much more character than the uniformity of Mahogany or Oak.

Dave:

Have you been reading this Thread "Chrysler 1929 series 75, wood on floor - doors and other"?

It is located in Forum "AACA GENERAL DISCUSSION Our Cars & Restoration Projects.

Has good discussion on wood.

[30DodgePanel]

Ok, I have a question about radiator part #'s now.

When you look up my radiator you find it to be part #522755 in the parts books, so I do have the correct radiator with the original Fedders tag. My question is why does the upper elbow have a 7 digit part number ? I cannot find that part # anywhere... Am I doing something wrong ?

I ask because I believe I may have located a good matching radiator that is in better shape than mine but the only part number on it is on the upper elbow and I wanted to confirm it was the correct radiator before I purchase it. The donor radiator used to have a tag on the back of it but someone removed it so I was hoping to take my good Fedders tag off my radiator and put it on the good donor radiator.

Heres what mine looks like and why I'd like to replace it:

Here is the part number from my radiator on the upper elbow that I cannot find anywhere. Part # is 3176286 .

[Guest 1930]

It is very often that the part numbers found on parts are not Dodge numbers but in fact manufacturers numbers, I would guess that is what you are looking at, if you have the correct shroud and it fits within that shroud and the hoses are going to be where they should be than I would go with assuming it is correct for your truck but of course I would also try along the way and verify this further as well.

[30DodgePanel]

It is very often that the part numbers found on parts are not Dodge numbers but in fact manufacturers numbers, I would guess that is what you are looking at, if you have the correct shroud and it fits within that shroud and the hoses are going to be where they should be than I would go with assuming it is correct for your truck but of course I would also try along the way and verify this further as well.

So I would need Fedders literature that was period correct for my specific radiator in order to validate it ?

Why does this have to be so difficult

[30DodgePanel]

Dave:

Have you been reading this Thread "Chrysler 1929 series 75, wood on floor - doors and other"?

It is located in Forum "AACA GENERAL DISCUSSION Our Cars & Restoration Projects.

Has good discussion on wood.

Thanks Sherman,

yeah that lead me into some other threads that have helped quite about. Good stuff..

[30DodgePanel]

J would be a standard six engine, it is possibly ( most likely ) the truck version of the standard six as was used. Standard six and Victory six engines have much in common. First came the Senior in 27, Standard is late 27 I believe ( but would have to verify that ) and then Victory.

.

This quote is a real head scratcher for me....

Looking at a chart you posted previously in regards to passenger cars I can see what your saying but I'm just trying to rap my head around how that applies to trucks. Similar to my DA 6 in my truck and the DA 6 in passenger cars I presume but still mixes me up. I have seen a book for sale in the past that mentioned "1929 Graham Brothers Panel Truck Standard Six" so I'm assuming that book may have been specific for this engine we are talking about that is prefixed with the J. So, it always comes back to internals are what seperate the truck engines from the passenger cars ? Is that in all cases I wonder ?

[Guest 1930]

So I would need Fedders literature that was period correct for my specific radiator in order to validate it ?

Why does this have to be so difficult

I have never seen such literature, I would go about it the way I suggested until something possibly pops up. Its not difficult, its entertaining

[Guest 1930]

This quote is a real head scratcher for me....

Looking at a chart you posted previously in regards to passenger cars I can see what your saying but I'm just trying to rap my head around how that applies to trucks. Similar to my DA 6 in my truck and the DA 6 in passenger cars I presume but still mixes me up. I have seen a book for sale in the past that mentioned "1929 Graham Brothers Panel Truck Standard Six" so I'm assuming that book may have been specific for this engine we are talking about that is prefixed with the J. So, it always comes back to internals are what seperate the truck engines from the passenger cars ? Is that in all cases I wonder ?

Not totally clear on what you are trying to have me understand here or what you are asking but maybe I would have an answer if it were clear to me, maybe not though, wish I had all the answers

Edited April 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I have never seen such literature, I would go about it the way I suggested until something possibly pops up. Its not difficult, its entertaining

Sorry, that was my attempt at sarcasm...

Like you say, don't make it difficult, just enjoy..

[30DodgePanel]

Not totally clear on what you are trying to have me understand here or what you are asking but maybe I would have an answer if it were clear to me, maybe not though, wish I had all the answers

I'm probably over analyizing things (again) but it just seems that all the engines from around this time period were available in cars and trucks alike, but, with the main differences being in the internals. I guess the reason I brought that up is because the DA shape looks very similar to the Standard Six and the Victory and I'm just trying to make sense of the differences. I really am lazy about my research in a way admittedly, meaning I just want to concentrate on the DA and not a bunch of other engines that are similar... to much for me to comprehend with all due respect.

[Guest 1930]

I understand when you say that it is too much to comprehend, it is no easier all of this for me, I have to read and re-read and re-read again things in order to finally get it ( some times ) and then alot of times I will read something else that throws a wrench in what I had just read and I have to start al over again. We are not alone, I am sure at this point that there isnt any one of us that isnt doing an awful lot of speculating.

[Guest 1930]

One thing that I would like to better understand that I thought you were maybe trying to get at in which I do not have an answer for at this point is if the truck engines and auto engines carried the same codes ( J DA Senior Vict ect ) than how did that work alongst the assembly line.

I guess that would have to be looked into starting on an individual basis to note the differences between say a DA auto and the DA truck engine and start speculating from there.