Undoing a Hot Rod

[hursst]

The recent 1933 Continental posting a few hours ago made me sick to my stomach, so I wanted to post another thread. Has anyone ever undone a hot rod? For example, I would love to purchase that Continental Hot Rod and restore it back to original, just to spite the neanderthals that destroyed it. The obvious problem would be where do you get parts? With a car like that, those cretins probably scrapped all the other parts to the car, so you'd be stuck with a frame and body, but not much else. I would think this would be easier with a more common car, since original parts would be easier to find. I guess there are not enough AACA-type people out there to save these cars from being destroyed. It looks like for every AACA-type, there are about 5 hot rodders. I fear that in another 50 years, there will be no antique cars, just hot rods.

Back to my main point, are there any examples of hot rods that have been saved and restored back to original?

[28 Chrysler]

Years ago I undid a 1939 Ford convertible that was painted Rally Orange, Corvette 327, with white Naugahyde.

Most every thing else was stock without a lot of major modifications.

I was asked to un chop a 1957 Nomad and walked away from that one.

[West Peterson]

There's been one for sale in in recent issues of Antique Automobile. A very desirable 1936 Ford sedan delivery. It's certainly a lot easier if the body hasn't been altered, such as the case of the Continental. As you mention, tho, the Connie has lost extremely rare running pieces and body parts. Whereas the Ford pieces would be much easier to find, both sheetmetal and mechanical.

[Rusty_OToole]

There may be a second Continental coupe going under the knife, believe it or not. A follow up post indicates that the guy who posted the photos is getting set to start cutting up another one.

I posted this info in a new thread. If you want to contact the owner of the car or the shop that is doing the work look in the new thread or on the HAMB bulletin board.

The shop owner indicated that the car owner really wants a 34 Ford coupe, and tried to sell the Beacon on Ebay, twice, but no one would give him enough for it to buy a 34 Ford body. So if you know where to find a 34 Ford coupe body maybe you can do a trade. Suggest you hurry, he is warming up his cutting torch as we speak.

[auburnseeker]

I know of a few hot rods that were converted back if you wanted to call them hotrods or just conversions. 36-37 Cords have been repowered and turned into rear wheel drive cars for years, I believe especially in the 40's and 50's. I have seen a few that are in the process of or have been converted back to the original dirvetrain, although I recently found a very nice sedan that was going from stock to a rod, unfortunately, although the owner sold the drivetrain for a princely sum so I'm assuming another converted car will go back original.

I'm in the process of trying to find the parts to return my Cord phaeton back to original. It currently has a cadillac Flathead engine and drivetrain although they left it very stock in appearance except they filled the cowl vents?? :mad:

Does anyone have a line on a 36-37 Cord sedan parts car?

[1937hd45]

What is a "Hot Rod"? If you are talking about an AACA "Documented Race Car" that can be shown in Class 24A, I can think of several '32 Ford Roadsters. Three of them sold for over $200.000.00, what will Joe Adverage pay for a stock restored '32 Ford Roadster? Bob

[Trulyvintage]

What is a "Hot Rod"? If you are talking about an AACA "Documented Race Car" that can be shown in Class 24A, I can think of several '32 Ford Roadsters. Three of them sold for over $200.000.00, what will Joe Adverage pay for a stock restored '32 Ford Roadster? Bob

I picked up a 32' Ford Coupe in Madison, WI on Saturday from the stellar collection of Richard Munz ....

Hot Rods are an important historical part of all automobile history

Folks Of Interest Hot Rod Heaven in Madison, Wisconsin courtesy of Richard Munz - THE H.A.M.B.

Whether you favor or dislike hot rods, they have been around longer than

some of us have been alive ....

I prefer " truly vintage" - the way a vehicle rolled off the line,

but I respect all cars and the rich history of all automobilia ...

Jim

[R Walling]

1947hd45,

You are right about the value of a hot rod. Most of them have been purchaced for more than a collector would pay, and have invested thousands more than it would take to restore it.

Manys of a times a restored car will be bought for a price, again, that a collector would not pay, just to hot rod it.

[hursst]

What is a "Hot Rod"? If you are talking about an AACA "Documented Race Car" that can be shown in Class 24A, I can think of several '32 Ford Roadsters. Three of them sold for over $200.000.00, what will Joe Adverage pay for a stock restored '32 Ford Roadster? Bob

Come on, you know what I mean, I mean a rare or significant car that was hot rodded, let's say in the last 40 years (usually in the last 10 years) that should have been restored as stock, such as the 1933 Continental, or the Darrin Packard that was mentioned. I'm not talking about a Ford Roadster from the 40's or 50's that set land speed records and has historical value in that form.

[1937hd45]

WOW! PLease thank Richard Munz for allowing us to take the Tour. Some of the nicest Hot Rods in the country, many that I've seen in magazine features. Bob

[1937hd45]

If you are talking about a lump missing 60% of the original parts, a leftover restoration "Parts Car" that was Hot Rodded in the past 20 years my hat is off to the guy with the talent AND money to build it. Many Hot Rods were build from wrecks restorers walked by for years. The restorer needs to step up and buy the cars when available, not cry about what they think is a "loss". Bob

[F&J]

The restorer needs to step up and buy the cars when available, not cry about what they think is a "loss".

That is the the truth right there. You can't stop every person that is ready to rod a certain car, but in most cases, money talks, and they would sell.

However, as an elderly friend with a large collection of early pre-war says: "nobody wants this old crap anymore". That's a general statement that does not apply to some classics, but you can understand what he means.

[JustDave]

FJ HELLO AGAIN

after reading the post about the continental i feel like you,i own 2 devauxs and have followed the devaux and continental history for years,i know some people like there hot rods but with all the aftermarket bodies being produced now its a shame to see such a historical car being destroyed,i hope someone will buy this car and restore it before it gets torched,years ago i went to look at a 32 plymouth convertible,when i got there i found the owner had installed a ford 312 engine and automatic trans then gave up on the project,i walked away saying i wasnt going to pay 250.00 for a piece of butchered crap,what a mistake,could have found the original drive train and had a beautiful car,live and learn i guess,hope the hot rodders will think of the historical value of these cars before lighting the torch, dave

[stock_steve]

That is the the truth right there. You can't stop every person that is ready to rod a certain car, but in most cases, money talks, and they would sell...

"Money talks, BS walks," someone smart once said.

I definitely feel bad when a nice original car is lost to a customizer or hot rodder, but we also live in a free country where the seller can sell to whomever he wants, for however much he can get.

There is no doubt an incredible amount of creativity, work, and craftsmanship that goes into many top-shelf custom cars, but I have to say they also don't interest me greatly in terms of something I'd want to buy or own (to me, the thrill of driving an original old car is its ability to "transport you back in time").

But I certainly have to check the customs out when I'm at the car shows, and gawk at the work and $'s that must've gone into them...

[F&J]

FJ HELLO AGAIN

after reading the post about the continental i feel like you,i own 2 devauxs and have followed the devaux and continental history for years,i know some people like there hot rods but with all the aftermarket bodies being produced now its a shame to see such a historical car being destroyed,i hope someone will buy this car and restore it before it gets torched,years ago i went to look at a 32 plymouth convertible,when i got there i found the owner had installed a ford 312 engine and automatic trans then gave up on the project,i walked away saying i wasnt going to pay 250.00 for a piece of butchered crap,what a mistake,could have found the original drive train and had a beautiful car,live and learn i guess,hope the hot rodders will think of the historical value of these cars before lighting the torch, dave

"Money talks, BS walks," someone smart once said.

I definitely feel bad when a nice original car is lost to a customizer or hot rodder, but we also live in a free country where the seller can sell to whomever he wants, for however much he can get.

There is no doubt an incredible amount of creativity, work, and craftsmanship that goes into many top-shelf custom cars, but I have to say they also don't interest me greatly in terms of something I'd want to buy or own (to me, the thrill of driving an original old car is its ability to "transport you back in time").

But I certainly have to check the customs out when I'm at the car shows, and gawk at the work and $'s that must've gone into them...

I have something to add to these statements, and on what car was in question...

I did purchace a stalled long term restoration on a 32 Ply conv. The former owner bought it as an old 1950s hotrod with a early hemi motor. The new owner bought many parts cars, parts and supplies over the years, but got burned out. I did finish the car as stock. The problem was that I could not seem to find a peaceful place to drive the car. It just would not go fast enough to make tailgaters happy. I was running the car RPM higher than I wanted to. I did not enjoy the car, except to look at it. I wondered what it would be like if the 2nd owner restored it to the 50's rod it once was? Maybe I'd still have it.

On Steve's (VW) comments; I am a long time early VW fan. I did have some splits, a 55 red conv with many super rare acc'ys that were on the car since new,and a daily driven 365 a year 57 euro sunroof with semaphores. I finally put signal lights on it, even though I had made the semaphores blink. People just did not look there for lights, they almost caused accidents. I did have a 1600 in it with a later, higher OD trans, but it was not great on highway speeds...especially a vacation to Maine. That was my only daily for 5 YEARS. My current daily of 6 years now, is a 70-T3 squareback, I try to stay off the highways.

Now as far as "takes me back in time"; I too, go back in time when I drive a true 50s built hotrod. They use old 3spd floor shift toploader transmissions which sound nice, old time big torque V8s like Olds, Cad, etc that can easily stay up with modern traffic. The tuck and roll, the old colors, it all brings me to the same place as when I drive a stocker...except I am more relaxed, knowing I might not get slammed from behind by going to slow.

I can't stay on either side of the fence, I have one of each. I can't live without bone stock, but I can't live without an old style rod either. Traditional rods are way different than a streetrod.

Steve, as a reply to:

"I definitely feel bad when a nice original car is lost to a customizer or hot rodder, but we also live in a free country where the seller can sell to whomever he wants, for however much he can get."

My reply is that a restorer has the same equal chance to buy the car that is for sale. Like Bob said; "step up and buy it, if you want to restore it".

[Amphicar BUYER]

If nobody steps up to buy it and restore it, it is not lost at all. Any car at that point has 2 probable futures, either sits and rots and may eventually be scrapped. Or it gets rodded and enjoyed, living on and possibly even being a historic vintage collectable rod.

[mrspeedyt]

my 2cents worth...I like them all but I do prefer stock. people have been modifying cars since day two.

[Dandy Dave]

My local car club back in the 80's was 90 percent unaltered old cars. I went back a few years ago just to see that it is now 90 percent Hot Rods. Dandy Dave!

[trimacar]

It's the wave of the future, more and more original drivetrains will be available, as more and more car guys don't want the "inconvenience" of that old unreliable car.

I see the following in the near future (as in starting tomorrow), statements aren't how I feel, just how the general public feels:

-brass cars will be exempt from this trend, so cars from 1900-1915 are safe, to most people now they're just a museum piece and not worth updating

-very limited hot rodding or updating of 1916-1928 cars, there were some great cars built during that time, but not many that are attractive enough to make someone want to make it a daily driver with updated drive train. T-buckets are the exception, but most of those builds now are repro bodies.

-little is safe from 1929-1941, there are some good looking cars in those years, and there'll be more people daily who want the look but modern upgrades

-the exception from 1929-1941 are very high dollar cars, rarely will a Duesy or a Packard Darrin be cut up, although it can happen. Packards are at high risk, as they are plentiful and good looking, and more and more will be rodded.

-many engine upgrades from 1947-1954, but the suspensions will be mostly original or slightly tweaked, as these were very good drivers to begin with

-1955 on, whole lotta rodding going on......

Just my thoughts.....

[1937hd45]

Great observation David, I agree with it. Just about anything 1929-59 could hide a small block, modern transmission and a Ford 9 inch and drive coast to coast trouble free, and 99% of the public wouldn't know. Bob

[36 D2 Coupe]

Just thinking about the loss of the '33 Continental really frustrates me. While my cars aren't finished, I have rescued 2 from rodders and a third from the crusher. My '36 Dodge RS Coupe came to me in '66 with a '53 Olds Rocket engine and dodge truck steering. At the time I had visions of a small Valiant 273 V8 in the car but then practicality and sanity prevailed and I was able to get an original '36 Dodge flat head 6 with tranny and clutch. Needed the crossmember as well as the rodder had cut it out to let the hydramatic through. Thankfully the body was still OK. Broke the front springs though with that huge hunk of iron.

Then there was a '32 Desoto roadster. Saw it advertised in the local paper over a couple of weeks and then it disappeared. Curiosity was killing me so I called the seller - found out it was going to a rodder! That really set me off so I offered to match the offer if he would sell it to me. It was rough as the seller had used it for parts for his own '32. Had it probably 3 weeks when another guy with two '32s found out about it and had to have it to restore.

Last one was a '34 DeSoto Airflow Brougham. As far as I know ony 4 of these 2 door sedans survive. They only built Chrysler and DeSoto Airflow Broughams in '34 and dropped them out of the Airflow lineup in '35 due to poor sales, This one had been a parts car for 2 other guys so it was a real basket case - quarters cut out, body seriously rusted out, fenders and running boards missing, interior gone etc. . Bought it in '79 for $175.00! But I got it together mechanically and found 99% of the missing parts over 25 years. Then sold it to a restorer who finished it but man it was tough! But when he was done it was good enough to go through an RM auction for over $50 M and I am really pleased to have had a part in rescueing it. It can be seen on ConceptCarz - here's the link 1934 DeSoto Airflow Images, Information and History | Conceptcarz.com Look for the two tone tan and brown 2 door sedan to see what time, money and obsession can do!

I really hope someone with the means and interest can step forward to save some of this rare iron. I can understand and appreciate a rod made from a car too far gone to restore but seeing a good one cut up is painful.

[Guest UniqueCollector]

As a young classic car enthusiast. I prefer the original then hot rodding.

Just grew up enjoying the true beauty when the first came out of the factory back in the day.

[desotot]

I am a hot rodder through and through, and what I see is a lot of the old restorers are moving on and the hot rodders have picked up some nice cars, but yes we need to preserve more of these cars, especially the rare and low production cars, but a greater problem is that the generation following us is low in numbers and without the capitol to pick up either the bone stock cars or the rods because typically they are finacially out of reach . What would be helpful is if we can generate a greater interest in any and all of these vehicles before the followers of David Suzuki can lobby legislators to crush these fine automobiles and get them of the roads. How's that for fearmongering? A few years ago I redid an interior in a 42 Merc coupe, it had a black tuck and roll interior which I replaced with a stock interior, the owner had removed the hopped up flattie and undid some chrome and put the taillights back to stock. Two years ago I put a top and leather interior on this 1930 Buick which had been made into a truck but the new owner refound the neccesary pieces and was able to restore it to its former glory.

.

.

Edited February 28, 2013 by desotot (see edit history)

[Guest Klayfish]

My worthless $.02. I have an appreciation for both hot rods and stock antiques. Don't have the funds right now to afford a nice one of either, but I like to drool. Frankly, with a "hot rod", I almost prefer the car to be a kit car. Every time I see a true antique that was turned into a hot rod, while I may love the way the car looks a part of me thinks "What a shame, a beautiful classic has now been forever altered for a SBC, a TH transmission and a chop."

I think a good sign of this is to watch what goes across the blocks at the big, well known, televised auctions. BJ, Meceum, etc... Years ago, you would see lots of original cars from the 20's-50's. Today, it's all muscle cars, restomods and street rods. It's very rare to see a stock antique, which is a shame.

[Barry Wolk]

The guy was just asking too much for the ratty Continental. He was asking $23K. I paid $13,500 for a much, much nicer car. Had he sold it for that it would have made a decent restoration candidate, but then you'd immediately be upside-down on a car that's worth maybe $20K fully restored.

Rarity doesn't always translate to value.

[trimacar]

Yikes, Barry, I posted basically the same thoughts a few minutes ago on another thread, and just now read your comments....totally agree....

[auburnseeker]

After a $70,000 hot rod build you'll have a nicely finished car if done right that is worth $35,000-$40,000 (that's if it's done just right and you sell it right away. Styles change and the last thing you want to sell is something that screams 2013 when it's 2020 or 2025. You don't win either way by restoring or hot rodding if you are looking at the financial end of it. When you go to sell it as a finished hot rod the 34 Ford will still bring more money. I always tell my friends buy the best model whenever you are doing a car because it costs almost the same money to restore the base model sedan as it does to restore the top of the line convertible. The only difference is the desirability and value of the finished product. I started out as a hot rodder, although I always loved all original cars, often having one or 2 of each and now find myself not even interested in most hot rods. I still appreciate a traditional style hi quality modified car especially of Ford heritage like posted above. I even have an original dragster and the first Rod I built but I will probably not add anymore to my collection unless I stumble across an original 40's or 50's built car in great original condition that's begging to be left as it is.

Now I'm even trying to find the parts for a Cord Phaeton that was hotrodded back in the 40's, Something I never expected to find much less try to put back to original.

The 32 ford I bought as a frame with the cowl from one car and the rear section of another so restoration would have been crazy as everything but the doors and bare dash board were missing. There wasn't a moulding or anything left and the previous owner already chopped the windshield posts.

The orange roadster was built from 56-58 and raced from 58-62 in Northern California. Except for tires and wheels it's original including the paint. I even have the original tires and wheels it raced on although they are really dry rot. It also has a hand formed 3 piece hood not shown. It's of a super hi quality for the time. It would be dumb to try to return this to stock as it's a 32 ford frame, 27 T body and 29 Bed that has been heavily modified. What would you restore it to? I have no idea what the original body on the frame would have even been.

To make an old car into a modern hot rod you would be further ahead to buy a new body and go from there. It's going to be in better shape to begin with.

I like my classics Old and original. You wouldn't put a Mustache on the Mona Lisa, why change out an original car if there is a way to keep it original and functional. If people made them as good as they were when new then drove them, they would have a different idea about drivability. Many of the cars that are out there that get rodded are worn out. Rebuild the brakes, completely, they will stop pretty darn good and straight. Get the suspension tightened up along with an alignment and it will drive well. rebuild or atleast freshen the motor and it will run good and strong. Go over the fuel and ignition system and drive it once a week or more and it will light right off every time you go to start it. If you have a common car the parts are cheap. Wheel cylinders 20.00 or less, Tune up for 30.00 or so on some models.

Something like the Cord, Well that's a different story.

Besides how many guys really drive there cars hard for the number of cars out there. Many of the rods get built so nice they don't get driven. I can name several in local garages that rarely turn a wheel much less go any distance.

Edited March 1, 2013 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Auburnseeker, you touched on one common point Hot Rodders and Restorers share, driving or NOT driving their vehicles. I for one enjoy the project stone stock or Hot Rod, finishing one is so far off in the future I never give driving it a thought. Bob

[junkyardjeff]

I am going to undo some of the damage I done to a 55 Ford convertible my dad bought new,I did not go crazy but changed the drivetrain to a 80s 351-W and C-4 but collecting parts to get it Y block powered again. Since I drive it to Florida from Ohio occasionally its not going back 100 percent original,the disc brakes and 12 volts are staying and definately not putting the original automatic trans back in and a late 60s/early 70s FMX is close to how the original looks but shifts like a normal auto trans. I like them to look original but they must be able to be driven at highway speeds since I do not own a trailer.

[Guest Jay Friedman]

In my opinion, the only good thing about rodding a fine car, is that the rodders frequently sell the original parts, especially the drivetrain components, fairly cheaply as they just want to get rid of unneeded stuff. Got a low mileage motor that way for my '49 Cadillac.

I owned for many years a stock, restored '32 Ford, unfortunately, the hot rodder's favorite. (A glance at the 1932-53 Ford section of Hemmings says it all: if there are 10 '32s for sale, one will be restored, "unmolested" as they say, and 9 will be rods.) When it came time to sell, I was afraid it would go to a rodder, so purposely looked for a foreign buyer, who would be less likely to do so and luckily found one.