Dwight Romberger Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Hi,I decided to give the much talked about Evans Waterless Radiator Coolant a try in Preston, my '30 Model 47. The engine is totally rebuilt. Has never had water in it. I thought it was the best chance to test it I will ever get!http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=360586585488&view=all&tid=364969509023I am particularly interrested in the idea that you can run it with no pressure in the system. To me that means: No boilovers or burst hoses and radiators. No changing antifreeze every year and no RUST inside the engine or deposited in the radiator!A question for the techies: Does having pressure in the system provide any additional function other than raising the degree at which water will boil?I seem to remember from my construction days that the taller the building, the higher the pressure you needed to pump water in a closed loop to the upper floors of the building?Let's hear it. You won't hurt my feelings.Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The early 30's cars all had open non pressurized systems. Of course the water pump has to create pressure to cause the water to flow though the engine. The radiator still operates at atmospheric pressure. With the system open, it still can collect water on each heat and then cool cycle each time you drive the car. Warm coolant expands and when it cools, it pulls air ( with moisture) into the system. Modern systems went to an expansion tank to keep the system closed.When working with water and elevation, a reasoable rule of thumb is 1/2 pound pressure per foot of elevation. to pump water up 10 feet, it takes at least 5 pounds of pressure to get water to flow. It works in reverse also, Dive down 30 feet and you will have 15 pounds of addtional pressure on your body. Water is still one of the best heat transfer liquids. It has good heat content and good flow characteristics. anything you add to the water reduces it's heat transfer capabilities. Adding other fluids can raise and lower the boiling and freeze points, but they do reduce the heat transfer.Let me know in 5 years how your experiment works out.Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 The advantage of Evans coolant is that its boiling point is supposed to be about 375 degrees. This gives a whole lot of cushion before it boils over. May be almost impossible to boil over. Your engine doesn't really overheat until you have a boil over. The higher the temp of the coolant, the more efficient the cooling becomes and so it sort of self regulates. One thing that the Evans is not good for is if you have a leaky system, gets rather expensive. It really doesn't take much pressure to circulate coolant in an engine with only a couple of feet of head. In a building with more than one story the hydrostatic head can build up pretty quickly and wuld have to be overcome i order to move water to the higher floors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gelinas (XP-300) Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'm still out with the jury on this one. I'd like to use it in my 1938 Buick, but still unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Understand at $45 a gallon, leaks will not be tolerated. My horsesense tells me that because Evans has a viscosity at least 4 times that of water, perhaps it will not be able to sneak out those nasty pinholes?Another thing I have to take into consideration is expansion. At 375 degrees it expands by 7 %. An expansion tank would work in a presurized system, but not in an open one. My coollant system contains 4 gallons or an expansion rate of approx. one quart. I will have to make sure I leave room for a quart of expanded fluid at the top of the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You can add an expansion tank to a non pressurized system. There have been other threads that address this. All you need is a tank, bend the overflow tube and connect it to the tank. Add a gasket seal at the top of the radiator cap. Expansion forces the water down the overflow tube nto the tank. When it cools, it will draw the fluid back into the radiator.As for 375 degrees!!! I hope my engine never approaches that temperature. The thermal expansion of the cylinder head, block and manifolds would be greater than ever intended. These engines ran for 80 years at 175 degrees with an occasional heavy load to 190 degrees. Clean water jackets and radiator and a properly tuned engine should not overheat. It sounds like overkill to me. The increased viscosity will slow water flow through the system, and with lower heat content it sound like you are building in a hotter running system.Just my opinionBob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'm curious why you think you need it? Do you anticipate a cooling issue?Food for thought: Let's say you do have a cooling issue and now your engine in operating at an elevated temperature with this coolant. You feel 'good' because you don't see 'steam' and you are not boiling over. But at the elevated temperatures, everything in the engine is now running at an elevated temperature. Of concern to me would be oil temperature and even more important, oil film thickness at critical points which is what is most important and is directly related to oil temperature. Also, what happens to design clearances at elevated temperatures? Will a piston now scuff or head gasket exceed its sealing capability and 'blow' or just leak and let the engine now consume and ingest this stuff?Now, if you are just trying to keep from 'boiling' on that one grade or parade a year and the other times you are fine, maybe this is an answer. But you don't know that yet. At $45 a gallon and a need for 3 gallons (at least in my Buick), I would spend it on something else (beer?) and see if you have an issue first. These Buicks ran all over the globe and for good reason, they had a well designed cooling system among other things. And should you find you have a cooling issue, let's look into it. I've seen slipping old worn leather fan belts, fans put on backwards so they idle fine but blow in the wrong direction at speed and result in no air flow as they fight the ram air, leaking waterpump packing that suck air and pumped a 'foam' in addition to all the plugging issues of age and waterpumps with no impeller blades left to name a few.I remember a non Buick fellow who ran this coolant on a Tour in the Blue Ridge Mnts in July and it was hot out. The coolant was his answer to being able to complete the tour. I asked him how hot he was running with the stuff. His answer was he didn't know since his monometer was 'pegged'. That got my attention. He did not make the week. He scuffed a piston because he had no idea how hot he was really running, but in his mind he was fine because there was no 'steam' and he had this coolant. I ran behind him once and could just smell how hot he was running with the oil and coolant burnt odor. I know this is an exteme case, but I wanted to share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thank you for all of your insight in this matter. I really appreciate it. Those are very good points to consider. I agree with Brian that this product is not designed to, nor should it ever to used be used to almeliorate an existing cooling problem.In my own case, before the restoration began, I had a non-leaking cooling system that operated in the normal range at all times. No steaming, no overflowing no pin hole leaks in the radiator.The engine ,however, has to be rebuilt. The piston walls were severly scoured. So much so that my 80 year old "do it once,do it right" engine rebuildered went all the way the way: sleeved the block, new everything. All the interior rust crap was boiled cleaned out.Evans coolant will prevent the water jacket from rusting with pieces flaking of to reduce the flow in the radiator or clog up a coollant passage in the future. It is preventive medicine.Plus, the guy who rods out this Buick after I am dead will have a much cleaner engine to sell for scrap!Thanks,Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Our customers' experience with waterless coolant in non pressurized systems has not been encouraging but admittedly a limited sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Interesting stuffI have a 1913 Sunbeam 12/16 with what is thought to be a coupe de l'auto engine in it, one of only two in the world. This engine was originally (its believed) a competition engine, anyway I had problems cooling it. It was always hot and then when I stopped there was after boil. I had a new rad core fitted but it only helped a bit (and i spent a lot) How it was explained to me was the afterboil causes steam to be generating nearest to the hottest spots....This steam then creates a barrier and so the water based coolant cant break through it to cool the hotspot down. Over time this creates fatigue and the possibility of a failure.Because the Evans doesn't boil, it doesn't make your engine run cooler per se, it just means that it continues to cool more efficiently when your motor is a bit too hot, when water would be vapourising.I've run on it since the summer last year and never had a problem. It did exactly what they said. Before, when I stopped would get a gush out of the overflow caused by the boiling, now I havent had to even top it up in 8 months! I know its hiding an issue, but in my case I'm happy about that. Plus theres no corrosion etc..Best of luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thanks simhin. I am glad it is working for you.Restorer32, may I ask what problems to look out for?Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If your only reason for using Evans is corrosion protection, my money would be with a name brand coolant and all their resources and years of experience not Evans. Heck, at $45 a jug, you could buy new coolant several times and still be ahead.You mention flakes and crud in the system. The toe of a pantyhose in the upper radiator will catch all sorts of stuff. Don't leave it in there but run it for a 100 miles a see what you 'catch'. This applies to us used guys, you have an boiled block and radiator. I was amazed. Kept it up until I didn't 'catch' anything. Did a back flush on the radiator with the garden hose in-vehicle and got lots of 'stuff' out the top of the radiator too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I use the Prestone Rust inhibitor in all the open systems to try and keep the crud factor down. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi,In re: "fans put on backwards so they idle fine but blow in the wrong direction at speed and result in no air flow as they fight the ram air,"Hunh? The fan would be less efficient, but still pulling in the same direction, since the direction of rotation would not be changed. Or am missing something here?--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 When the fan is installed backwards (flipped over, which is possible on many cars), the blade pitch is then reversed so it is 'pushing' air forward. If you don't notice the direction, you will idle fine, pushing air. But as you drive and the ram air increases and the wrong direction fan flow too, they fight one another with the end result being stalled air flow and over heating.This is very common (or at least I've seen it several times) when people add an electric fan systems or helper fan system. Check your air flow direction when you are done with the wiring. Real easy to wire an electric fan backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Getting my car ready for the new season, I drained all my Evans out, figuring it was hygroscopic and absorbed water from the air all winter. My plan was to put the 3 gallons of Evans in a big stock pot and boil the water out (Outdoors due to fumes, and with an electric stove not a propane stove, for safety). Well, before doing anything I tested the Evans and it was under 2% water. The instructions say 3-5% is the desired range with less than that being even better. So, I filtered it with a coffee filter and put it back. I didn't need to filter it really, it all looked clean as a whistle. Next year, not doing a thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Tested the Evans in the leak drip bucket under the water pump. After a whole winter (winters last 7 months around here) I got almost a gallon of drips past the packing. It was 16% water so it's true that it picks up water from the atmosphere. Tomorrow to boil that gallon and drive the water out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 At around 212 it starts boiling like water and then hovers around 220 for about 10 minutes while still boiling rapidly, before going up into the 240s and 250s. Around 275 the bubbles slow down to champagne bubbles, and I shut it off and put the lid on. Now under 1% water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90DegreesSouth Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Hello Morgan, One added benefit of EWC is that, unlike traditional antifreeze/coolant, it is not poison for children and animals. If you are having to capture leakage of coolant, Evans is a safer way to go. There are references of EWC having a higher viscosity than water. My experience is that it is "wetter" than water. Once I converted to using it I had two small leaks appear; one around the temperature sensor and another at the drain tap in the block. They were small leaks, 8-10 drops a day, but may have added up to something like yours over a 7 month period. Happily, they were easy fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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