Craigslist Peerless in Maine

[ShawnLancaster]

Found this on Craigslist - looks like it needs a new home. I am not the owner.

"I have a rare 1929 Peerless Coupe with rumble seat. I understand there are only 7 left in the US of this special model. It is all there but needs to be reassembled. Metal is in excellent shape but the oak needs to be replaced. I have run out of room. It is stuffed in a corner. Make this your winter project. This is the only picture I could get right now, like I said STUFFED in a corner of the garage. I am looking for a back hoe. If interested call Mike at 207-637-2782"

Also at : http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3508103946.html

Enjoy,

Shawn

[keiser31]

Here it is...

[jeff_a]

Thank you Shawn and Keiser,

CraigsList Maine shows 2 Peerlesses - - This one appears to be a yellow and black 1929 6-81 Coupe. The other is a maroon 1922 Dual Windshield Phaeton(has an aluminum Peerless V-8) and may be a Model 56 with a 125" w.b.

I'm not sure of the model or the motor in the 1929. Could be a 6-61, 6-81, 6-91, or 8-125.

Edited December 31, 2012 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

1922 Peerless Touring

You Peerless guys know this car.

Probably one of the rarest

Not very often they come up for sale.

In a museum at present.

I'm selling it for Ralph who has decided to sell this one.

Duel windscreen, seven passenger eight cylinder.

I also have a running/driving 1915 Overland for $19000.

Call 207-735-5715 or email me.

$69500.00

[Guest BJM]

1929 PEERLESS COUPE

I have a rare 1929 Peerless Coupe with rumble seat. I understand there are only 7 left in the US of this special model. It is all there but needs to be reassembled. Metal is in excellent shape but the oak needs to be replaced. I have run out of room. It is stuffed in a corner. Make this your winter project. This would be a great car to restore or make into a hot rod. I was able to get a couple more pictures. like I said STUFFED in a corner of the garage. I am looking for a back hoe. I even would be interested in trades. If interested call Mike at 207-637-2782

[Guest BJM]

[jeff_a]

Thanks Bryan,

It's a Model 6-81. They have 248 cubic inch Continental flathead sixes. By '29, they even went from a vacuum tank to an electric fuel pump -- and from nickel to chrome plating. It looks like it has disc wheels and dual sidemounts.

----Jeff

Edited January 4, 2013 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Jeff,

Got your letters and awesome photos, thanks. Basically that Boattail is the same as yours with a slightly larger displacement motor, correct?

Since this isn't an official Buy/Sell section, I will comment on pricing. 1st, Ralph's car is a bargain in my opinion. Of course, a large part of the so-called "Barrett Jackson/Mecum/Gooding" auction crowd wants muscle cars and post war mass produced cars (sarcastic implications of my comment fully intended). However, when compared to what $75,000 or so buys in this niche market, you can't get too close to this Peerless for value. V-8, 7 passenger touring. Peerless made this car for the wealthy man who probably bought a closed car for winter and this car for summer.

Styling is conservative but no less so then an early 20's Cadillac, Lincoln or Pierce Arrow.

Regarding the Boattail - this fellow seems like he wants to move this on as he just can't see the end of the work. $4000 ? I think he would take $2500 cash from a serious buyer that shows up and looks him in the eye.

Craigs List is great entertainment (was better as a JAXED tool) and many of us just view and aren't serious about purchasing. That's why email responses to Craigs List postings usually get slow if any response from sellers (spam and other reasons as well) but if a person actually shows up they are usually the only one and so the seller thinks "man I better deal with this guy".

I've purchased 3 cars in the past 4 months this way and I actually have to stop or I could have as many as I want.

This one is in Maine so I can't look into it. Find one like this within 500 miles of Madrid and I am all over it.

[jeff_a]

Bryan,

The 1929 is a standard rear deck Coupe with a rumble seat. I think the boattails were only produced from 1926 to 1928. My car, technically, is titled as a 1929 6-8O and is a boat tail coupe or "Roadster Coupe" as the company called it. I feel that it's really a 1928 6-80. Inexplicably, it has the larger* 248 six(same as this one) I thought only went into the 1929 6-81. I emailed you a photo of two '26 Peerless Six-80s today, a Roadster Coupe and a Phaeton(photos taken in NSW, Australia in 1978).

I talked to the owner on the phone today. He might be keeping it, but it's still for sale. He says the fenders are in really good condition, and confirmed that there are 6 disc wheels and dual sidemounts. Used to be listed in the Club roster as a 1930 6-81 Coupe in Lynwood, IL.

I think it's kind of an interesting car. The provenance is: originally in Wisconsin; Poppy LaReau, IN; Frederick Olthof, IN; Dewey VanderNoord, IL; Albert Buiter, IL; Arthur Van Baren, IL; Ralph Cartonio, ME; and Mike R., ME. Ralph had it for sale for $6,000 2 years ago. Traded it to current owner for delivery of another Peerless from San Diego to Maine about a year ago. It does need a lot of attention -- particularly in the wood auto body department. I think pieces of the old wood are there.........but every one needs replacement**. Both wire($225) and disc($150) wheels were options over wood wheels when you ordered one of these new for about $1,595 in 1929. The whole car was quite an "up-grade" from a low-priced car. From 2 blocks away it bore some resemblance to a Model A Coupe, but you got 65% more HP and a foot longer wheelbase. Someone said this was one of 100 Peerlesses at the 100th Anniversary Show in Cleveland back in 2000.

----Jeff

* Not that much larger: 230 cu. in./63 HP vs. 248 cu. in./66 HP

** O.K., I'm guessing. I haven't seen the car myself. Recently I looked at some photos of restoring a similar car and really everything made of wood was replaced. Maybe all of the 1000s of parts are still there, and some of the hundreds of wood ones are still good. I don't know.

Edited January 25, 2013 by jeff_a
Tons of add-ons. (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Jeff,

Since this isn't an official Buy/Sell section, I will comment on pricing. 1st, Ralph's car is a bargain in my opinion. Of course, a large part of the so-called "Barrett Jackson/Mecum/Gooding" auction crowd wants muscle cars and post war mass produced cars (sarcastic implications of my comment fully intended). However, when compared to what $75,000 or so buys in this niche market, you can't get too close to this Peerless for value. V-8, 7 passenger touring. Peerless made this car for the wealthy man who probably bought a closed car for winter and this car for summer.

Styling is conservative but no less so then an early 20's Cadillac, Lincoln or Pierce Arrow.

Bryan,

Thought you'd like the 1922 Peerless on a couple of levels. Good 1st car for a high school student? Maybe not. V-8, 4-barrel carb, dual exhaust, 8 mpg on a good day.

I agree it'd be worth every penny of the price, and you'd never "see yourself coming around the corner" like you might with a few collector cars they made millions of. I'm glad you liked the 1921/1923/1924 pictures I sent a couple weeks ago, such as a chassis for a 1923 Model 66.

----Jeff

Edited January 9, 2013 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Bryan,

The 1929 is a standard rear deck Coupe with a rumble seat.

----Jeff

Well it would help if I would look closer at the photos! Plus it would be difficult to have a boattail and a rumble seat.

[jeff_a]

Don't sweat it re: the 1929 body style. A few weeks ago we were all talking about a 1926 Peerless Boat Tail here, and this is a similar car. If you develop an interest in having a '29 Peerless someday, that would be a good year for having a selection. Far more 1929s survive than any other year of manufacture: 50 or 60.

Edited January 4, 2013 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest Scot63]

This yellow and black coupe was owned by my father in the mid to late seventies. When I saw the photos I couldn't believe my eyes. I can add to the the provenance if anyone is interested. The car had a seized motor, missing carburator, missing interior, and two of six steel wheels were non Peerless when we owned it. I am positive this is the same car because I know the prior owners who live in Lynwood, IL. I always wondered where it ended up. I'll try to post a picture of it before it was disassembled.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Scot63 (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Scot,

That's fantastic news. What a coincidence! I have no clue when it was this Peerless was last intact or drivable, but you may have seen it that way 35 years ago. I have some photos of it from the Lynwood, IL days. One with somebody moving the body on a forklift somewhere.

I may have sent you a pic of a Condition #1 1930 Red Fender/Cream Body Peerless 6-81 Deluxe Coupe I traced to an Oldsmobile-Geo dealership in Plymouth, Indiana* which I thought was this car for a long time(it's not). One neat thing about it was that it had a new canvas top, much like the non-folding tops many Ford Model As have(Sport Coupe, Business Coupe). Not just the top insert, but the L.S., R.S., back and top. Do you by any chance remember if the car your dad owned had a golf bag compartment door, and cowl vents on the left and right sides?

Would love to hear more about this 1929 Peerless Coupes history. Are you going to have to build another garage and drive up to Maine with a forklift?

Jeff

* This other car was photographed in front of "Country Chevrolet-Olds-Geo". Photo by Scott Christie in 2002. Source: pbase.com

Edited January 10, 2013 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest Scot63]

Yes it had a golf bag door. If you look at the pictures one of them has the door laying among the other parts. I don't recall if it had cowl vents. I was 13 when we bought the car from a shirt tail relative who found it in Wisconsin some years earlier. My father let me dissassemble the car in order to begin a restoration. The car had received a very poor restoration previously. We never went beyond disassembly and eventually traded the car for some excavation work. I may still have the radiator emblem somewhere. My wife will not even consider letting me drag this one back home!

Scot,

That's fantastic news. What a coincidence! I have no clue when it was this Peerless was last intact or drivable, but you may have seen it that way 35 years ago. I have some photos of it from the Lynwood, IL days. One with somebody moving the body on a forklift somewhere.

I may have sent you a pic of a Condition #1 1930 Red Fender/Cream Body Peerless 6-81 Deluxe Coupe I traced to an Oldsmobile-Geo dealership in Plymouth, Indiana* which I thought was this car for a long time(it's not). One neat thing about it was that it had a new canvas top, much like the non-folding tops many Ford Model As have(Sport Coupe, Business Coupe). Not just the top insert, but the L.S., R.S., back and top. Do you by any chance remember if the car your dad owned had a golf bag compartment door and cowl vents on the left and right side?

Are you going to have to build another garage and drive up to Maine with a forklift?

Jeff

* it was photographed in front of "Country Chevrolet-Olds-Geo" if I'm not mistaken

[Guest BJM]

Interesting comments and additional information. I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer but I am dismayed by the fact that no one wants to pull the trigger on it's restoration and the additional information of missing parts needs to be verified, or else the car simply won't sell. It's interesting that it has changed hands at least twice as a trade for services. Why this new fellow "bought it" from Ralph C is puzzling.

If Ralph C can't see the light of day on it, to dig in and restore it, then I am not sure who would? If it is missing key parts, and needs everything now, then it's value will quickly be exceeded by costs. Which, as we often point out, is not the motive of a restoration. It is a hobby.

I would purchase this car in the $2000 range and bring it back to Iowa. Cost to transport would add $1000 at least from the northeast. As Jeff knows, I have purchased 2 pre war cars that were incomplete when purchased, and I had no luck in getting the missing parts, unless one wants to pay $750 for a seat core, which I don't.

Completeness is huge for a pre war car. Jeff, that's exactly why that 1921 Packard Touring with the Pullman body is a decent purchase in the $5000 to $6000 range, because the seller should be able to sell you a complete car.

I was actually buoyed by your comments vis a vis' the nature of this car being a foot longer and more hp then a Model A. There is a 1935 Buick 40 series coupe (lowest Buick rung on the ladder car) being discussed on the Buick Buy/Sell forum - which when researched showed it was manufactured with a 233 cid straight 8.

Now here you have a Peerless with a larger straight 6 at 248. In fact, Chrysler used a similar size flathead straight 6 up until 1954 in it's Windsor line, a 250 straight 6, which I doubt differed much from the Continental 248. So, this may actually be the "perfect" size motor for this car and I would think make it highly competitive in that late 20's market segment.

In my opinion, and with no offense to the present owner, whom you stated "may keep it", he will not be restoring it. He might approach it from time to time, get motivated, then come to his senses that he doesn't have the ability or deep pockets to see this one through to completion. Or, maybe he is a master carpenter and I am in fact being mean spirited. Not my intent, but with the information that Scot63 has generously provided, this car has remained in this state for 35+ years through a few owners, including one of the marques present "big wigs" in Ralph C., and no one has rolled up their sleeves and dug in.

Therefore, I remain on the sidelines on this one. If the seller would drop his price to the $2000 range, I would look into it but ONLY if he could deliver a complete car including the parts SCOT63 mentions as missing.

[jeff_a]

Scot,

Thanks for all the first-hand information on the car. You can probably still picture some of the disassembly in your memory. I didn't even spot the golf bag door until you mentioned it. I know you already have a Peerless Six and realize you might not necessarily need two.

[jeff_a]

Bryan,

Who knows, maybe some work has been done on this car by various people? No way for me to tell. Some of the fenders look like they're in good shape. At any given time, Ralph might have 2 to 12 antique cars at his shop. Maybe he had time to work on this one -- maybe he didn't. From 3,000 miles away it's kind of hard for me to tell what shape it's in and how complete it is. The seller, Mike, said it's all there. Scot said no carb or interior 35 years ago. I don't know if this 1929 6-81 has the seats or not. The Packard you mention has no seats whatsoever, so they may be alike in that respect. The 6-81s, 6-91s, and 8-125s all had an ornate 6-gauge instrument panel and don't know if we have one here. Chrome-plated headlights, cowl lights and cowl band?

It's kind of interesting to look at the photos and try to identify the parts. The engine looks pretty complete, including flywheel, transmission and carb. There's a fuel pump to the left of the carb. I spot 2 steel running boards; the golf bag door on the wood floor; 2 bumpers(Mike says there's a full set + 1 extra); both doors and outside handles; 5 door hinges; a distributor cap; two huge horns(like what's on that blue Peerless that went to Australia); a piece of wood framing w/ notches for roof bows; the front splash apron; 4 hood panels & 3 hinge rods; one hood lift handle; the windshield; the roof visor; running board brackets; 2 posts that must hold up the sidemount tires*; one Peerless hubcap; the headlight support bracket; the steering wheel and steering column; a windshield wiper unit; the rear view mirror; a coachbuilders tag on the firewall that may say "Peerless Body"; a radiator shell; 2 radiator support brackets; 2 front fenders; and a radiator. There's one pic showing the R. Rear fender w/ running board step plate sitting on the L. R. wheel...and another w/ an unrecognizable object sitting on it(Stamping for the roof pan? Stamping for the rear of the cab?).

For reference, remember that a 1930 Ford Coupe has 4,500 parts(counting every washer, tack and nail) and this is more complex. Not counting the engine---I've only mentioned 58---around 1%. It would be swell if there was a mystery box labelled "complete interior" and another "wood parts for roof assembly" and it sounds like you want to have such things if you truly needed a complete car delivered before you could buy it. Isn't the fun part spending years finding, making, and having made all the missing parts?

I mentioned earlier someone restoring a similar car. Don Bettes sent me quite a few photos of the 1929 6-61 Coupe he's been restoring for the last 5 years. It's a very similar car and the replacement of the wood parts has been very involved. If you'd like, I could copy some of them and send them to you. They give one an idea why someone recently charged $80,000 to replace the wood on a Marmon V-16, according to Matt Harwood. Before starting on the compound-curve wooden body parts themselves, Don crafted what's essentially a 4 ft.-wide platform from tail to firewall(7 to 9 feet long) that goes down over the steel frame. They look like maple or ash 1x6s with 1x2 battens glued & screwed underneath about every 3 ft. On the photos of the 1929 6-81, you can see a few bits of wood: a roof rail, front floorboards, and some framing where the R.S. kickboard goes, etc.

You seem to be interested in the car more than I thought. It's somewhere between fixer-upper and basket case. Let's say this Peerless came out of the factory with 5,000 parts. Do you need all of them to be there? If the interior's AWOL, probably 1,000 are gone. Murphy's Law probably plays a part in determining if all the other parts are there. Can you afford to have a factory-correct mohair interior installed by a shop? Of course, you need wood to tack that onto. If you and your family could learn to replace all the wood and then all of the upholstery, you might have a real sideline business someday! Course it might take awhile.

Mike said he is a cabinetmaker. I asked him about the instrument panel...he said he didn't know if he had it or not...and something about he might have to ask Ralph if one goes w/ the car. It sounds like you need to call the owner up with a list of questions. I wonder what's going on with the engine? Did anyone ever get it running?

I think his price is fine for what he's got....if for no other reason than it's old and rare. One source says they made 3,800** 6-81 Peerlesses, another says 2,900. They have Continental 18C engines. The 6-61 dominated Peerless production in 1929 with about 8,100** built. Did you know there's a 6-81 Roadster for sale for $25K (black, restored, wire wheels, D/S/M)? With the money you'd save buying that one vs. this one and rebuilding it from scratch you could probably wallpaper one wall of your house w/ $10 bills...even after you paid shipping from Argentina.

----Jeff

* I have never seen these before...except on the photos of the car in Illinois in 1990, which I have sent you copies of.

** theoretically, counting spare engines

Edited January 25, 2013 by jeff_a
more observations & more parts (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Jeff

Having gotten burned twice on incomplete pre war cars (1936 Chrysler Airflow and 1936 Buick - both my own darn fault for purchasing) I can attest to the value of at least getting cores with this or other cars. I ran into a "parts hoarders" mentality on the Airflow and gave up. Some of the same on the 36 Buick so - if Ralph or others have the rare parts needed, how much to cough up? Ralph is very nice, don't get me wrong - as is Don Bettes and others, but I saw some of the prices they had on parts at Hershey 2010 and the missing parts for this car would run someone $4000 + easy. Or fabricate (seat, etc)

Can't fabricate that ornate instrument cluster so I hope it's in a box. Those probably cost a $1000 just to restore. Sounds like I'm slamming the car but as mentioned, it has gained in appeal to me, but someone really would need to clear out a garage and roll up their sleeves on this one.

On a side note, do you have any idea on what size motor that Cleveland straight 6 is - from your records? The one that is advertised on Craigs List for $1350?

[jeff_a]

Bryan,

Re: the '29 Peerless. It would be nice if you could get an 84-year-old car at a rock-bottom price that was 100% complete and ran well, but that doesn't happen. Three out of four would be nice, too. With this car, how about two out of four?

If you could buy all the missing parts at Hershey for $4,000 and the car for $4,000 you'd be getting by pretty cheap. It's amazing anyone has any parts for Peerless at all! There is an instrument panel for a 1929 Peerless 6-61 for sale on ebay for 100 bucks. It's for a different model (it's a 5-instrument cluster and it has no instruments). But you could trade it, possibly, to someone I know who has a 6-instrument cluster on his 6-61(couldn't find a 5-instrument one). It's a nickel-plated brass or steel oval with the oval glass insert, and with the gold Peerless eagle emblem. We don't know yet if the instrument panel & dash panel it's mounted on are missing or not.

I totally agree with you that it is unwise to buy cars that are unending money pits, and see that you have some experience with same. I didn't know that the '36 Buick had missing parts. If you had this car, and every single blessed "missing" part was in the trunk, it would be great. If it was more like a jigsaw puzzle with lots of the pieces gone, that might be different. I surmise that you don't care to get it delivered and find all of the lights are missing, the motor's toast, and you need to proffer a check to your upholsterer for $9,500.

RE: the parts in Cleveland. I found a January, 2007 email discussion I had with Dr. Temes, and he keeps calling it a 1928 for some reason, even though we determined it was a 1929 Peerless 6-61 Sedan. These cars had horizontal hood louvers and a 215 Cu. In. six. Maybe it's a 1928 6-60 with a 199 Cu. In. engine. I don't have any serial numbers.

----Jeff

Edited January 23, 2013 by jeff_a
I left out part....and added a paragraph. (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Bryan,

According to your own criteria, there's no danger of you buying this Condition #5 car. But if you did, I'd hate for you to be out in your shop with tin-snips trying to build an instrument panel from a sheet of steel or brass in case the car was complete except for that. I see that Welcome to Classic Instruments in Boyne City, MI has one listed(don't know if still there, been on their site for years).

It's a 1929 6-gauge cluster with the gold-plated Peerless eagle, and 4 of the instruments: ammeter, oil pressure, speedometer, and temperature. Absent are fuel gauge and Sterling electric clock.* Cengiz Arsay advertised for years here on the forums trying to find the missing ammeter for his '28 Peerless(6-80, uses same panel). He said he would have been happy to pay big money for it, but he went to Hershey and went to some booth that had a lot of gauges and found an exact match National brand ammeter for $10.

Do you have The Standard Catalog of American Cars, VOL I., 1805-1942? Just discovered that there's a beautiful FACTORY photo of the same car we're talking about on p. 1165. It's a light-colored car with D/S/M, wire wheels and a folding rear luggage rack.

----Jeff

* AHA --- I looked more closely and found that the fuel gauge IS there!

Edited January 25, 2013 by jeff_a
X-tra Paragraph (see edit history)