OT - been a bit occupied

[padgett]

I suspect that 2013 is goiing to see a revolution in computers in general and automotive entertainment in particular as 2760 and i5 tablets start hitting the market.

Why ? Because these tablets are going to be able (am playing with one now) to run the full Windows or MacOS operating system. Right now they are just in the 10-11 inch form factor but I ecpect 7"ers with 2760s to be available in 2013. &" is improtant because it fits a double DIN opening (may squeeze to DIN & a half).

Need a CD player: USB CD/DVD externals are under $25 though for automotive use (half DIN) may need better shock resistance.

One I am playing with, and Acer W510 has a MSRP $100 under an iPad with the same memory and adding anything is easy. Already have mine running TouchScan (OBD-2), Streets and trips (Sat-Nav) and EZCap (external camera input). Plus all of the Windows things. In fact connected to a real keyboard and mouse & a 24" monitor it acts exactly like my desktop. Plus touch and swipe (an expecting overlays for monitors next year also.

Two issues I am dealing with:

1) Heat. These must have some air flow particularly on the back.

2) Power: Since most run on 12v and 12v>5v USB power is east, this is not a real problem.

However I am reminded of the quote by Albert E. "'I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" Since ares on on three year cycles, I do not know what automotive systems will be like through 2015 but in 2016 they will be an amp, speakers, and a slot.

When home, the DVI can also run a full sized TV and with an IR transmitter can control the devices, it can do everything electronic (once everything has a IP address will get even easier).

Right now I also need a wireless FM transmitter and a tablet mount from Arkon for the Reattae but all is easy to retrofit. Would be nice if the radio had an aux input but is OK.

We are right on the edge and the last refuge of Android and iOS is going to be smartphones (mine can act as a hotspot for my tablet). Handy jut just too limited (try displaying a webcam on an Android or iOS device). Good thing the Mayans were rong, 2013 is liable to be "interesting".

[KDirk]

Padgett,

Kind of agree with your sentiments on this. I've been waiting for years for an in-car nav and entertainment solution that was not crippled by proprietary hardware, custom software and dead ended in terms of upgrades after 2-3 years. Have two Pioneer 2-din nav/media units and a JVC in this situation now. All three still work and well, but firmware/feature updates are non-existent, and map/POI data updates are sketchy and very expensive when they are available. Pioneer just released what I expect will be the third and final map/POI update for the AVIC-F series units I have. They are now 5 or so years old, and there are 3 generations of newer (different) hardware by them since then, so little incentive left to support these orphans.

I am now watching the migration to "app head units" that are essentially dumb terminals save for built in AM/FM/HD and maybe USB/SD ports for digital media playback. All other features are implemented by linking to a smartphone (usually Iphone, android support is very limited and never as good as that offered for the Iphones). On one hand, this helps reduce the obsolescence of the head unit as key features like nav are now run from the smart phone and mirrored in real time to the head unit. Downside is that you have to setup the smartphone link to the head unit and then always have it in the car, with line of sight to the outside for GPS reception. This approach seems like an improvement on the 100% proprietary embedded system approach of the 3 units I have mentioned above, but is still a stop gap with a multitude of caveats and limitations. They also are not any less expensive than the previous units mentioned, and those had full in-board functionality that did not rely on an external device (smartphone) to do anything. I view that as kind of a rip-off.

As you observe, and inexpensive tablet device running a well supported OS (IOS or Android, though the latter still needs better support for apps and integration to head units as the market seems intent on catering heavily to IOS and I simply refuse to be a blindly loyal sycophant to Apple) that can dock into the dash and serve the purpose of a unified nav, media, information and diagnostics device is probably as close to a panacea as can be achieved. The automakers will never offer a factory system that good, and heavy hitters in the aftermarket are still finding their way.

If a tablet can be made that integrates a passable AM/FM/HD tuner, that would be a big plus. Yes, I do still listen to some radio, but imagine I am an endangered species in that regard. I know that smartphones can stream radio, but the audio quality is not that great, and it uses a lot of bandwith which results in your wireless provider capping your throughput after you exceed "X" gb of data usage in a month. Besides, why stream terrestrial radio when a built in receiver can do it for free? Talk about a waste of resources.

So, I too will be keeping an eye on what develops. I loathe the idea of buying anymore proprietary head units now, as I have seen how rapidly they are written off by the manufacturers in favor of a new & improved platform, leaving one with a $700+ boat anchor. Forget that noise, they got enough of my money playing that game.

KDirk

[padgett]

You missed part of my point " well supported OS (IOS or Android)" I believe shortly Android and iOS will be relegated to Smart Phones and hot spots. Anything larger will be running a "real" OS - Windows/Linux/MacOS. Is in 10" tabs today, I expect 7" (DIN and a Half, double DIN with CD/DVD) that can be a full laptop in a dock at home. Why settle for less ?

[KDirk]

Padgett,

Didn't really miss that, was more ranting about the current state of automotive nav/media technology. Certainly agree that a mainline operating system is the best approach. I'd prefer a flavor of Linux to anything as I have been experimenting with various distributions on one of my desktops (A desktop? yeah, that is so 1999!) and have found it not only quite capable, but stable as well. Virtually nothing now that can't be done in Linux that is possible in Windows or MacOS. In fact, I find some of the Linux GUI's to be head and shoulders above any flavor of windows, and highly competitive in the "slickness" factor compared to Mac.

With Linux being open source, it is a much better choice all around as it will tend to be better supported. Closed systems like Android and IOS are not only more difficult to customize and develop for, but especially with Android, each new version seems to result in devices having the older versions loaded being left behind (e.g. no OS upgrades for Android smartphones for the most part). These (notable windows) are also terribly bloated and difficult to keep mean and lean so they don't get bogged down. This is why I expect to blow out a Windows box and do a fresh install every 18 or so months, they just slowed down with accumulated garbage in the registry and in directories many levels deep. Frustrates me to no end.

On the subject of smartphones, I just bought a HTC One V (Virgin Mobile) and have been very impressed so far, especially given it is a relatively inexpensive full featured smart phone. 3G only, but fast enough for anything I am doing (which is not much actually). In any case it has Android 4.0 "ice cream sandwich" and that has already been supplanted by a newer version of Android code named "jelly bean". Unlikely they will make the new version available as an upgrade to the older phones, as it seems SOP to only offer the current version as a factory load. All that said it seems like the cell phone makers have the expectation that their product has about a two year lifespan, after which it will be replaced whether it is worn out or not. So, I suppose they feel there is no need to offer such updates. I fully intend to resist this quasi-compulsory obsolescence, but will see how well the phone holds up.

Anyway, the larger point being that Android, while capable as a smart phone platform, is not an ideal basis for a fully featured computing device. I want the ability to add conventional outboard peripherals and such, and this is not possible with smart phones, or with any tablet I've personally looked at. So, it has it's uses but I feel there is much room for improvement with a better OS and hardware. Netbooks were intriguing to me for a short time (and some were running slimmed down Linux distros), but seem like a fad that will be supplanted by tablets.

KDirk

[padgett]

Part of the issue is that I have rquirements that Linux (am using Fedora 18 now) cannot match. For some time I have been trying to make Android accept an external (rear view) camera input. On Windows 8 EZCap and Dscaler make simple. For GPS Sat Nav have choice of Delorme Street Atlas 2013 or M$ Streets and Trips. Delorme is better all around but painfully slow to load. Neither requires Internet Access. Are many choices for OBD-II, my choice is TouchScan because it can read a Bluetooth dongle. CD/DVD is built in (have a powered hub with seven USB ports. Is also able to run all of my legacy applications.

This is all with a Acer W510, designed by Intel and sold by Microsoft running a full Windows 8 Pro. MSRP $100 less than an iPad with the same memory. Only downside is the 10.1" form factor is too big to fit a dash easily, 7" is much better. At home with a real keyboard, mouse, and big touchscreen running 1920x1080 you would never care how small it is. It is a real game-changer.

[Jim]

Padgett,

You guys are way ahead of me on the modern electronics. I usually can repair the old CRTs with my 60s electronic training but am lost with the new stuff. I do use an ASUS laptop and have an ( old ) 3G Iphone but that is it.

Thank you for the Christmas card and I hope you have a very nice 2013.

Jim

[padgett]

Dunno, when I was in class they still taught vacuum tubes, just been playing with computers for 50+ yars.

Difference is "anytime/anywhere" though typing on a 7" touchscream is challenging.

[MrEarl]

Can y'all please speak in English.

Edited December 28, 2012 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Can y'all please speak in English.

Just be thankful they're using alpha numeric characters and not just using ones and zeros! :confused:

[Bushwack]

Can y'all please speak in English.

Just be thankful they are not writing in Klingon.

[Guest Corvanti]

Just be thankful they are not writing in Klingon.

oh, if wanted to waste the time, i could probably do that!

my 135 lb. 3 year old German Shepherd was trained his "commands" in Klingon.

(since this thread started as "off-topic"...)

Edited December 29, 2012 by Corvanti
speoolin' (see edit history)

[padgett]

You don't speak g33k ?

[Jim]

OK since this topic is going everywhere,

I will add my son got in on the ground floor of bitcoins several years ago tying several of his computers together and acquiring hundreds of them at no cost to him.

Sold them all when they had a low value.

[Ronnie]

I try to stay on the cutting edge of Medieval technology. Got a computer but haven't moved up to a fancy phone yet.

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

Just caved in and got the smart phone a couple of weeks ago. I resisted this (or having any cell phone) for years now. Circumstances (both business and personal) have now dictated that I need to be more easily reachable. Not happy about it, but sometimes it gets too tiring bucking the trend. So, they finally got me. I will not, however, become slave to the device. The past few years I find myself ever less interested in computers and cutting edge technology. Instead I have embraced trailing edge technology, as it is not only more fascinating from a technical/design standpoint but also more enjoyable to tinker with. The Reatta fits this bill nicely, as it happens.

Really, I've long liked old stuff: vintage stereo gear (quadraphonic is great!), older cars, old video games - anyone remember Intellivision? Yes, I still have a working 1979 console and box of games for it. Don't use it much, but fun for a quick jaunt back to childhood once in a while. Also like old synthesizers (would love an Oberheim Matrix 12 someday) and the true vintage keyboard instrument: pipe organ. I play classical organ though I lack an instrument at home; not exactly practical as even the smaller electronic organs are beastly large due to the requisite speaker systems.

Anyway, I have a mix of old and new(ish) stuff that suits my needs, but I suppose I could be considered a quasi-luddite given my distaste for the newest, most stylish "gotta have" stuff. I view most of it as a waste of both time and money. Of course, many would say my boxes of Reatta parts and stacks of old amps, tuners and effects processors were a waste of money but I stand by the usefulness of those things for my personal enjoyment. I rarely watch TV, but when I do I use a 27" Sony Trinitron I got for free and rebuilt the power supply to get it working. That set is now 20 years old, and still kicking. No real desire for a big LCD or plasma due to my downright miniscule use of the idiot box.

And now we have meandered so far from the original subject of this post we might not find our way back with GPS.

KDirk

Edited December 30, 2012 by KDirk (see edit history)

[Bushwack]

Ronnie,

Just caved in and got the smart phone a couple of weeks ago. I resisted this (or having any cell phone) for years now. Circumstances (both business and personal) have now dictated that I need to be more easily reachable. Not happy about it, but sometimes it gets too tiring bucking the trend. So, they finally got me. I will not, however, become slave to the device.........

KDirk

What you have is a mobile computer that can make phone calls.

..and yes, you will become a slave to the device. Resistance is futile.

[KDirk]

Ervin,

While I gather that was intended to be humorous (notably the Borg reference as a follow on the the Klingon stuff up-thread), I will give a [mostly] serious reply, at the risk of revealing a bit too much about how my mind works.

Resistance is voltage divided by current (see: ohms law). It is also something I am quite good at as a behavioral trait, as I have always done things my way most often in direct opposition to the prevailing group-think on any given subject. Sometimes I do so just to tweak other people - I kind of enjoy seeing someone get p!$$ed when I refuse to cave, especially over something that doesn't really concern them.

Perfect example: my refusal to drink (alcohol) in high school (or anytime since then) when "everyone else is doing it". Sometimes my intransigence would get people so mad they would ruin their own good time arguing with me on why I should try it. Some people just couldn't stand that I didn't go along with the crowd. I have always possessed an immunity to peer pressure, often with amusing (to me anyway) results. I think my ability to blow off such tactics made others uncomfortable because it forced them to think about their own reasons - or lack thereof - for blindly complying.

Got in trouble once when asked the classic question "if everyone else was jumping off a bridge would you jump too". My reply was that I'd video tape the mass jump from a safe distance and send copies to the surviving relatives with a note criticizing the abject stupidity of the jumpers. My unsympathetic solution didn't go over so well, but I detest mindless followers who can't or won't think for themselves. Regrettably, that seems the state of existence for so many now, and yet that somehow makes me the anti-social guy who just "doesn't get it". Yeah, right.

I have been in a restaurant and witnessed a family of four eat an entire meal without ever speaking a word to each other. The entire time they were all completely engrossed in their IPhones. Even ate one handed so they could keep the phone going the whole time. Sure, that's normal healthy human behavior. Bottom line, I will chuck the phone the minute it inconveniences my way of doing things. If that forces me to sacrifice friends, associates or work opportunities, so be it. Count on it.

KDirk

[zoltanb]

Well said!! Sounds like a slice of my life.

[wws944]

I agree with Ervin. Resistance is futile. I held out until about a year ago. There are so many cool apps to do so many things... My only main complaint is that battery life is not great compared to a dumb cell phone.

Padgett: I am interested in what requirements you have that linux doesn't offer? I use it daily, and have for many years. I find little (though not zero) need to use windows.

[Bushwack]

Ervin,

While I gather that was intended to be humorous (notably the Borg reference as a follow on the the Klingon stuff up-thread), I will give a [mostly] serious reply, at the risk of revealing a bit too much about how my mind works.

Resistance is voltage divided by current (see: ohms law). It is also something I am quite good at as a behavioral trait, as I have always done things my way most often in direct opposition to the prevailing group-think on any given subject. Sometimes I do so just to tweak other people - I kind of enjoy seeing someone get p!$$ed when I refuse to cave, especially over something that doesn't really concern them.

Perfect example: my refusal to drink (alcohol) in high school (or anytime since then) when "everyone else is doing it". Sometimes my intransigence would get people so mad they would ruin their own good time arguing with me on why I should try it. Some people just couldn't stand that I didn't go along with the crowd. I have always possessed an immunity to peer pressure, often with amusing (to me anyway) results. I think my ability to blow off such tactics made others uncomfortable because it forced them to think about their own reasons - or lack thereof - for blindly complying.

Got in trouble once when asked the classic question "if everyone else was jumping off a bridge would you jump too". My reply was that I'd video tape the mass jump from a safe distance and send copies to the surviving relatives with a note criticizing the abject stupidity of the jumpers. My unsympathetic solution didn't go over so well, but I detest mindless followers who can't or won't think for themselves. Regrettably, that seems the state of existence for so many now, and yet that somehow makes me the anti-social guy who just "doesn't get it". Yeah, right.

I have been in a restaurant and witnessed a family of four eat an entire meal without ever speaking a word to each other. The entire time they were all completely engrossed in their IPhones. Even ate one handed so they could keep the phone going the whole time. Sure, that's normal healthy human behavior. Bottom line, I will chuck the phone the minute it inconveniences my way of doing things. If that forces me to sacrifice friends, associates or work opportunities, so be it. Count on it.

KDirk

Oy ...and TMI.

On a related note, there was a sporadic power outage in Beverly Hills this morning. I was stuck in an elevator for 20 minutes during the brief outage (squirrel, now a toasted squirrel, met his fate with a transformer at a substation). Telephone inside elevator cab did not work and the 'emergency' lighting inside the cab went out after 3 minutes.

I was in an office building which was practically empty. The cab stopped between the 6th & 7th floor. Nobody knew I was in the cab. If it wasn't for my smartphone, I couldn't have called the fire dept and I couldn't have used the flashlight built into the phone to give me some light.

Technology is a good thing.

[padgett]

Been an interesting break. On the 11th, my main PC corruped (old Pentium running XP, I tend to keep things waay past theier sell by. No problem would restore from backup. Only difugledy was that the backup only had my e-mail to 2010.

Today I was able to restore the partition that had my missing e-mail so now have all the folders back and is just a matter of merging (and making sure everything gets backed up. In process built two machines, one a 4 GB quad core Win 7 and other is a dual core 2GB running Win 8 Pro both 64 bit OS. After the bloat of Vista things are getting reasonable again but took nearly 24 hours of kachunking to restore one 35 GB partition.

Amazing part is now have a 250GB SATA drive & a terabyte backup capacity. Drive was $53. I recall being amazed when Maxtor cane out with a 200MB drive for $200, not a typo was MB and new drive is GB. Astounding.

[KDirk]

Padgett: Ah yes, I too remember the magical dollar per megabyte mark. My dad bought an 800MB Seagate for the company computer at that time and $800 seemed like a deal. That drive was IDE interface and replaced the original 30MB MFM interface Tandon in a Compaq Deskpro (8088 at 8 Mhz w/ 640K of RAM) running DOS 3.31 and an Irwin quarter inch tape drive for backups. Rather shocking to look back on that from the perspective of today's capacities vs. price.

Ervin: I suppose my mini-rant may have come off a bit harsh. I was trying, by way of example, to demonstrate my fiercely independent streak, and why that made me capable of resisting trends (in this case being a willing "victim" to the smartphone) so well. Never said or intended to infer that technology isn't a good thing, of course it is in a general sense. Your incident in the elevator is proof of that, kind of surprised the phone worked in there however. Tech's application and our dependence on it can go awry in many harmful ways. When it reaches that point, I say enough already. I have done so before and will be prepared to dispense with it again if I feel it is encroaching on my day to day existence.

Happy new year!

KDirk

[padgett]

Tech is just a tool. What it really means for now is that you no longer need to know an answer, you just need to know how to ask the correct question. You need an index and not a repository. Is a different way of thinking.

For years I have been carrying the Reatta service manuals with me on trips. Used to mean I needed a laptop, then a notebook, netbook, tablet, and now on a smart phone. Do think we may standardise on the 7" display form factor. It is the smallest that you can see (e.g. a printed page) and the largest that will fit a DIN opening (slot in the dash).

Some things will need to change, for years there have been laws to ban driver dashboard distractions (TVs, DVDs) but what about sat-navs ? engine readouts ? Not an easy situation.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

01001000

01000001

01010000

01010000

01011001

00100000

01001110

01000101

01010111

00100000

01011001

01000101

01000001

01010010

00100001

[padgett]

and a Happy New Year to you too (but you did not need to shout).

(I also speak EBCDIC).

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

54:68:61:74:20:6d:61:6b:65:73:20:79:6f:75:20:61:6e:20:49:42:4d:65:72:2e

[DAVES89]

I wondered when the "smart ones" would start speaking "geek"! lol

[Ronnie]

Tech is just a tool. What it really means for now is that you no longer need to know an answer, you just need to know how to ask the correct question. You need an index and not a repository. Is a different way of thinking.

Websites like mine, which is a repository of information, struggle to survive against websites that have better page rankings because they are purposely loaded with keywords that grab the attention of search engines. They frequently have little to offer other than displaying advertisements or trying to sell you something unrelated to your search. My website has pretty good page ranking for "Reatta" and Reatta related searches considering it is a repository of good, useful information. It's very discouraging to build, update and maintain a website like mine, which can take hundreds of hours (in my case over the last five years), knowing that someone can build a website in a few hours and get a better page ranking from search engines by merely inserting popular keywords while offering very little useful content.

It was once thought that if you wanted a good search engine page ranking for your website that "content is king" is what you had to focus on. Times have changed. Now Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and/or your ability to pay for Google Adwords fees is king when it comes to getting a good search engine ranking.

Google is getting rich directing Internet users to websites with little content and lots of commercials. Like Kevin, I like to be independent and I rarely go with the flow. I don't like search engines to have the ability to control what I see (or don't see) on the Internet. They are so slick at doing it that most users don't even realize it's happening.

My 2 cents on current Internet technology.

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

You are to be thanked (commended even, if I may) for your efforts, as I'm afraid you - and others who undertake similarly useful but largely unsung projects - are fighting a loosing battle if you view the value of the effort by it's perceived popularity or profitability. Now that the internet has become fully commercialized (an inevitable development sadly, as money makes the world go round) search engines are a bit of a scam - they simply sell favor to the highest bidder. This usually gets the least useful hits (but those most able/willing to pay for those coveted spots) to the top and leaves related sites with information of substance well down the list of returned results.

It is also indicative of the mindset that too many people have, of not wanting to engage in critical thinking or put out much effort. Why go 4-5 pages deep on google when the 1st page has links that look good. When "Gangnam Style" is the most watched Youtube video ever, it is a rather sad commentary on what grabs and holds the attention of the masses. What is amusing about that particular case is that the performer is actually being brutally critical of superficiality (research the meaning behind the lyrics of the song) and yet I imagine only a small fraction of those viewing it even realized the commentary that was being made, thus missing the whole point because they were focused on the dance moves.

And that is why being independent-minded with an ability to filter out the noise is a tough place to exist. We just see/hear/understand things differently and while it is a useful trait in many ways, it also puts us outside the lines because we don't just go along to get along. Standing on principle is not easy, and it seems like it is poised only to get more difficult.

Doesn't really matter. I'm not going to change, and neither is "the matrix", so all this discourse on it is a waste of time I suppose. Just have to be content with swimming upstream all the time, I guess.

Since no one has made any snarky remarks in octal yet, here is my contribution:

%113%104%151%162%153%40%163%141%171%163%40%124%110%111%116%113%41

[padgett]

Ah yes, calc is wonderful. Personally I have never worried about rankings but then have the luxury ? of a day job to support my hobbies. May change when/if retirement is selected/forced. 2013 depends on sequestration. Are too many hits on Padgett Peterson already.

What I am wondering is when will hyperinflation hit ? Will change many things.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Need to get out of the depression first. Then $7 a gallon milk will lead the way.

KDirk, that just gives one a headache.

[handmedownreatta]

i saw this and thought to put it here.Kenwood shows off new DNN990HD Android-powered car stereo - Kenwood shows off new Android-powered car stereo (pictures) - CNET

[padgett]

Andoid is soooooo last year. Clover Trail (and soon Bay Trail) is now. We are seeing the "rebirth of the PC".