Checking valve sealing...

[wex65]

So I dont recall exactly where I saw this test for valve sealing but I put my '55 322 heads on a bench this afternoon and filled the chambers with gasoline to see whether the valves were properly seated. Left them for 20-30 mins and sure enough I had 2-3 cylinders that only had 50% of the gas left. The remainder were up around the 90-95% mark.

Not sure how scientific this is but assume this does indeed mean the two offending cylinders have a dodgy seal and they need to be lapped in with paste etc?

Now, where the hell did I put that valve spring compressor??!!

Paul

[buick man]

Paul: Sounds real familiar to me. This past year I decided to end my career as a "tool archeologist" always hunting and digging and overturning crap to find my tools that I put everything even screw drivers up on a long wall hang setup. If you have the room it is better than shelves or drawers. Hope your head job is an easy fix. Please keep us posted.

[60FlatTop]

The valves sound fine. On really bad ones the gas would just pour out through the valve. You will probably find bad valve guides on the ones that leaked a little. The inconsistent seating location will take the nice smooth edge away. Lapping would be fine. Don't do a grind unless you put new rings in too.

Now, as for the tools; ever been in an argument over whether anal-retentive should be hyphenated?

Here's the verge of extreme, but ignition wrenches are such a PIA and magnets work so good:

[wex65]

The valves sound fine. On really bad ones the gas would just pour out through the valve. You will probably find bad valve guides on the ones that leaked a little. The inconsistent seating location will take the nice smooth edge away. Lapping would be fine. Don't do a grind unless you put new rings in too.

Now, as for the tools; ever been in an argument over whether anal-retentive should be hyphenated?

Here's the verge of extreme, but ignition wrenches are such a PIA and magnets work so good:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]167848[/ATTACH]

Many thanks guys, tool organization not one of my strengths. Anyway, found a dial indicator whilst looking around the old garage this morning so will try to dig into the manual to see how to check valve guide clearances.

Pulling the old distributor off tmy 322 I thought the contact gap looked small and I wasn't wrong, 5 thou! Not sure how that would show up but I will be replacing and ensuring a 15-17 thou gap when rebuilding.

Paul

[Guest Rob McDonald]

"ever been in an argument over whether anal-retentive should be hyphenated?" If so, you probably are.

I keep my everyday hand tools on magnetic strips over my bench, from which they regularly fall down, occasionally smashing something I'm working on. Most of the specialized stuff goes in a wide ex-filing cabinet. Each drawer is roughly categorized as Carpentry, Plumbing and Electrical, Automotive, small power tools, and jugs of antifreeze, thinner, paint stripper, etc.

The cabinet is haunted though. I go looking for a tool where I "always" put it and it's not there. I try to think when and where I last used it and then start hunting. After way too long, I go back and look in the drawer where it's supposed to me and there it is, staring me in the face. Paranormal? Or just a guy thing?

[buick man]

Many thanks guys, tool organization not one of my strengths. Anyway, found a dial indicator whilst looking around the old garage this morning so will try to dig into the manual to see how to check valve guide clearances.

Pulling the old distributor off tmy 322 I thought the contact gap looked small and I wasn't wrong, 5 thou! Not sure how that would show up but I will be replacing and ensuring a 15-17 thou gap when rebuilding.

Paul

Easy..... just remove the rocker arms so just the valve stems are sticking up by themselves. Take your pinky finger and set on top and firmly press down and with a slight circular motion and then a side to side motion. Got any movement? Bet you will find the bad cylinder readings you have to correspond to these moving stems that are showing lateral movement. You could dial indicate only if you want to numerically record the amount of movement. But with that said, any movement other than right on snug will indicate wear. The worse will be the ones you want to hand seat with a little valve compound Yes and as always 60FlatTop is right on regarding not doing a complete valve job without doing a cylinder hone and ring job as well. That's where and why you have seen all of those smokers after a complete but only valve job.

[wex65]

Easy..... just remove the rocker arms so just the valve stems are sticking up by themselves. Take your pinky finger and set on top and firmly press down and with a slight circular motion and then a side to side motion. Got any movement? Bet you will find the bad cylinder readings you have to correspond to these moving stems that are showing lateral movement. You could dial indicate only if you want to numerically record the amount of movement. But with that said, any movement other than right on snug will indicate wear. The worse will be the ones you want to hand seat with a little valve compound Yes and as always 60FlatTop is right on regarding not doing a complete valve job without doing a cylinder hone and ring job as well. That's where and why you have seen all of those smokers after a complete but only valve job.

Thanks guys. Have to say I am somewhat mystified at the 'don't do a valve grind without rings' approach. Not to say I disagree with it, I am just trying to get my head around the connection. From what the machine shop has told me, we will be simply sealing the valves, no grind, but if there had been a grind why would this then require hone/rings or is it a case of simply doing it whilst everything is out? Maybe I am being a little slow today...

I know the pistons in the block are already 60 over so I am reticent about playing own there to be honest! :-)

Paul

[Guest Rob McDonald]

PAUL, I also admit to being baffled at first by Bernie's and David's insistence that you shouldn't stop at a valve job. Working on the top end, you're not really "in there anyway". You haven't pulled the pan and removed the pistons, which will require new bearing shells, and "now let's check the crank clearances", and on and on. Pretty soon you've got a fresh engine, which is nice but was it necessary?

Maybe what our friends are suggesting is that, once you've snugged up the valves, compression will be raised. That could push more oil by somewhat worn rings, which will have then become the weak link. Okay, I might buy that. Reaming out any ridge at the tops of the cylinders and honing the walls should allow same-size new rings to be installed, if the cylinders aren't scored or overly tapered. Likewise, standard connecting rod bearing shells can be used, unless plastigauging indicates the crank is indeed worn.

If all this due diligence tells you your engine is tired and wants a complete rebuild, kick something soft (and inanimate) and get on with the job, when you can afford it. Maybe the lesson here is, "Don't open an engine unless you're prepared, with money and time, to go all the way." Be happily surprised if all it needs is valves, rings, and shells.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

In the 1990's I had a very god business servicing freshly restored cars. After they were "finished" with the restoration, shop or owner, my mission was to make them start, steer, and stop. My rule of thumb was to tell the owners that if they added up all the receipts, including the ones they hid from their wife, they would be looking at 90% of the job. The remaining 10% was about what I was going to charge. At the time that was $2500 to $3500 for the level of cars I was doing. Oversights, untouched components, and painted worn out parts were what I dealt with. When the cars left me the owner could toss the keys to their wife and send her into town for a bag of groceries without fear of an "event" or non-event, as the case might be. No part of those cars endured a 50+ lifespan better than another. And most suffered from long periods of disuse as much as they did from wear.

My personal cars reflect everything I learned from their example. I saw a lot of partial engine rebuilds; stuck rings, high blow-by, low fluctuating vacuum, hesitations, poor cooling, poor lubrication, and the prettiest copper colored bearing inserts you ever saw. It all wears out together. I spend between 5 and 10% of the value of my cars just on routine maintenance annually. Hopefully I can sneak in a restoration level enhancement in there as well.

Collecting old cars used to be a rich man's hobby. Guess what; ever heard the guy who says the only thing that changes is the date? His car is deteriorating too. And it is expensive to fix.

Bernie