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Tire Size Question


Rooney3100

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11 years ago I bought Bias style tires for my 56 Chevy truck Resto, the closest tire size at the time I could get to my original size (6.70 -15) was 7.00 - 15 and that was from the company (Universal Tire), now they make my tire size (6.70-15) for the trucks...

My question is how much of a point deduction for the tires I have on my truck even though I have 5 matching Bias tires that are only 1/2 height difference....?

I want to go to the Auburn Show next May and I hate to have to spend $700.00 more dollars for New 6.70-15 tires to replace the New tires I have on the truck.....Rooney3100

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Good morning Rooney3100.

I just sent a copy of your question by e-mail to Erik (Rick) Marsh. He is the VP of Class Judging as well as the instructor for the Tire CJE.

When I hear back from him I will let you know. Or he may come here and answer directly. Some Officers/Directors do come here and some don't.

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Steve-Have you checked the accessory options for your truck? Sometimes the manufacturer offered the next size up (which you have) as a option to the purchaser. If they had this option you have solved your problem. ---Bob

Bob, When I assembled my truck, I used my factory assembly manual and my Truck Data book & my gm parts books, I new I needed 6.70 -15 ( because that's all that was offered) but all of the manufactures at the time (2001) had either white walls that 6.70-15 or only one company(Universal Tire) had a black wall truck tire that was the closest size to what I needed, my truck did not come with white walls, only the Cameo had them or the car's , so I chose the 7.00-15....

I really hope that I can get past this issue without having to spend another $700.00 for tires just to change the number on the tires, the tires I have are 1/2 taller than the 6.70-15........and they are the same Super Transport Tires I have.....Steve

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Very unlikely a judge would have picked up on the size discrepancy.

That could be the case.

But if an eagle-eyed judge does catch it, and we find out it would require a deduction of any amount per tire, he could be out at least 4 (or more depending on if the spare(s) are the same as the ones on the ground) points at even one point per tire. And when someone has to be within the point break amount it could keep him from getting the award he is going after.

Hopefully I will hear from Rick Marsh soon or he will maybe come on in person and give an offical ruling on this question.

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That could be the case.

But if an eagle-eyed judge does catch it, and we find out it would require a deduction of any amount per tire, he could be out at least 4 (or more depending on if the spare(s) are the same as the ones on the ground) points at even one point per tire. And when someone has to be within the point break amount it could keep him from getting the award he is going after.

Hopefully I will hear from Rick Marsh soon or he will maybe come on in person and give an offical ruling on this question.

Your right Susan, It could make or break me getting an award, I understand the tires being Bias ply for the year need to be correct for judging and I hope the size being 1 size off is OK, because when I purchased them (12 years ago) and I could not get the right size in Black wall, No manufacture I found had blackwall in 6.70-15, My tires are a 6ply commercial truck tires from Universal Tire, My 56 Chevy Salesman's truck data book showed that standard was the 4 ply & 6 ply was an option, also All my tires match , even the spare............Rooney3100

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That could be the case.

But if an eagle-eyed judge does catch it, and we find out it would require a deduction of any amount per tire, he could be out at least 4 (or more depending on if the spare(s) are the same as the ones on the ground) points at even one point per tire. And when someone has to be within the point break amount it could keep him from getting the award he is going after.

Hopefully I will hear from Rick Marsh soon or he will maybe come on in person and give an offical ruling on this question.

Hi Susan, Any word yet on how many points I may loose for the tire size? Thanks STEVE M

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Hi Susan, Any word yet on how many points I may loose for the tire size? Thanks STEVE M

Sorry, not yet. I realized that I sent the e-mail to Rick during the Thanksgiving holiday. I will give it a few more days incase he is busy with catching up from maybe being away. I will check with him again if I don't hear back from him.

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I heard from Rick Marsh. Seems he doesn't check his earthlink e-mail very often. :rolleyes:

Here is what he sent to me regarding your question.

"Good evening, Sorry for the late reply. I only check my earthlink account on occasion.

This is an interesting situation. 6.70-15 bias ply tires have been available for sometime. It could be that 11 years ago, Universal wasn't suppling them but, others were. I know because I bought a set of 7.10-15s in 2000 and they had 6.70s in stock from the tire supplier.

We tell our members that they should have the tires that came on the vehicle. If the correct size is not available, then we accept one size up or down.

Technically, the 6.70-15 is currently available. If the tires in question are 11 years old, then they are past due for replacement due to age deterioration. I wouldn't give my grandson a ride in an antique car with 11 year old tires on it.

Rick Marsh"

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You are welcome. Rick Marsh knows his stuff when it comes to tires. And there have been several discussions on the dangers of older tires. And making sure than new tires purchased are really new according to the markings on the sidewalls. Our previous RV had a rear inside dully tire come apart. Turned out the the tires were made in 2000, put on a 2001 chassis and then had the "coach" camper body put on in May of 2001 and we bought it the day after Thanksgiving 2001. It was listed as a 2002 model. the tire came apart and blew in 2010.

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Just a word of warning. If the trend toward not purchasing supposedly "out of date and therefore dangerous" tires continuse I'm betting that you will see fewer and fewer antique car sizes available in the future. What sensible tire supplier is going to go to the expense of having a batch of a slow selling tire produced knowing he will likely have to scrap most of the order? A few years ago we purchased a set of odd sized tires. Only one of the major sellers even stocked this size. We bought the last remaining 5 from a batch that were manufactured 8 years earlier. What are the chances those tires will be made again? It was the growing availability of tires that allowed this hobby to blossom. Hopefully it isn't the lack of tires that makes this hobby wither.

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Rooney3100,

In a perfect world you would buy new correct sized reproduction tires.

In the real world, only you can make that choice. In my own case, for several years I successfully showed a car with good condition tires that were over a decade old. When I started doing a lot of driving of that car, I decided to buy new tires for it on the advice of Rick Marsh.

Your truck will be judged in Class 22C. This class encompasses some very different trucks. In classes that cover different makes and models of vehicles, like Class 22, you are probably a little less likely to find the judges to be experts on your specific vehicle. There is a relatively good chance that judges will not notice that your bias ply tires are not quite the right size. There is a chance that they will and it will cost you some points. Only you can decide what you can afford and what you want to do.

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Thanks Everyone for the replies, I will have to bite the bullet on this one and go with some New tires as my tires have never seen the road and are in very nice shape, these can be used for someone's trailer....

I will go with the 4ply this time to get the tread pattern a little closer together so when I do decide to ever drive my truck, the stones from my driveway will not get stuck between the tread and fly all underneath, I was going to someday pave my 400 ft drivaway, but this will be alot cheaper, now that I can purchase NEW BLACKWALL 6.70-15 Tires in the 4ply tread pattern it will look real nice on my truck, this is what I wanted in the first place as my truck did come originally with this style of tire as Standard....

Since I put lots of effort in trying to do a Correct Restoration I better make sure and cover all the judging bases to have a real nice truck for the ACCA shows, I believe I have what it takes to be in an AACA avent, as soon as January 2013 gets here I will sign up for a member ship and follow the instructions for getting my truck to the events ........ROONEY3100

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SIGNING UP FOR NEW MEMBERSHIP IN AACA

It is not necessary to wait for the start of the new year....

You can sign-up or renew in the fall, and you are paid in full for the following year.

Many people renew, or become members at the Eastern Fall Meet at Hershey, PA each year in early October as a convenience.

You can also phone our Headquarters during normal office hours to join or renew membership by credit card,

simply by phoning: (717) 534-1910

or you can go online and click on this link: Antique Automobile Club of America

Membership is a real bargain which includes being a part of the greatest organization in the old-car universe, bi-monthly editions of "ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE" - our fantastic publication, free research at our library by qualified and caring staff, and free admission to our museum in Hershey (which is associated with the Smithsonian).

The annual membership is only $35, and includes your spouse where applicable;

Student membership is only $12,

and we offer life memberships as well

Do it now, while you're thinking about it

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Thanks Everyone for the replies, I will have to bite the bullet on this one and go with some New tires as my tires have never seen the road and are in very nice shape, these can be used for someone's trailer....

I will go with the 4ply this time to get the tread pattern a little closer together so when I do decide to ever drive my truck, the stones from my driveway will not get stuck between the tread and fly all underneath, I was going to someday pave my 400 ft drivaway, but this will be alot cheaper, now that I can purchase NEW BLACKWALL 6.70-15 Tires in the 4ply tread pattern it will look real nice on my truck, this is what I wanted in the first place as my truck did come originally with this style of tire as Standard....

Since I put lots of effort in trying to do a Correct Restoration I better make sure and cover all the judging bases to have a real nice truck for the ACCA shows, I believe I have what it takes to be in an AACA avent, as soon as January 2013 gets here I will sign up for a member ship and follow the instructions for getting my truck to the events ........ROONEY3100

Glad to hear that you are going with the safer option and getting the correct tires for your vehicle. Rick Marsh really does know what he is talking about when it comes to tires. Having had an older tire come apart (on our last trip of the year and Bill had planned on replacing them anyway in the spring but that didn't work out like he planned :rolleyes:) I think that you are making a wise choice.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest zimmroe
Glad to hear that you are going with the safer option and getting the correct tires for your vehicle. Rick Marsh really does know what he is talking about when it comes to tires. Having had an older tire come apart (on our last trip of the year and Bill had planned on replacing them anyway in the spring but that didn't work out like he planned :rolleyes:) I think that you are making a wise choice.

I too have the question of tire size. I had my 55 chevy pickup judged at Hershey in October this year and my tires were bias ply whitewall 7.00-16 rather than the factory blackwall 6.50-16 or 6.70-16.

I don't know if I lost points or not (for tires and other items) as I have not received any paperwork from the judging. This was my first show so maybe I missed details on how to obtain results, if not points at least where the deductions were.

I would be happy to provide a self address stamped envelope if that is required. A posted point of contact or link for such information would be very helpful. If Rick Marsh is the present VP of Class Judging and could advise it would be most appreciated and beneficial to many. Many thanks,

zimmroe

55 chev

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zimmroe,

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. The VP of Class Judging is Hulon McCraw. He can be contacted by email at hcmccraw@morrisbb.net

Hulon C. McCraw

V.P. - Judging

101 Dausuel Trail<address>Henersonville, NC 28791</address><address>hcmccraw@morrisbb.net

He can email you a sheet showing areas where your vehicle received deductions.</address>

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Well I bit the Bullet and ordered 5 New Bias Firestone 6.70-15 Blackwall tires for my 56 Chevy Truck, I will post a picture of the truck when I get them on........

Zimmroe, thanks for inquiring about this topic, can you let me know what the deduction is for your tire size if they did take some deductions for them.....Also can you send me some pics of your 55 Chevy? smav@charter.net it's alway's nice to meet another truck buff THANKS Rooney3100

Edited by Rooney3100 (see edit history)
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Rooney3100,

The VP of Class Judging will be able to show the areas in which deductions were taken. The number of points taken is not disclosed. That is the way that the AACA Judging System is set up.

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Rooney3100,

The VP of Class Judging will be able to show the areas in which deductions were taken. The number of points taken is not disclosed. That is the way that the AACA Judging System is set up.

Whoops, Sorry Matthew I was thinking points not the area the points were deducted......Thanks for catching that......I will be a helpful fact to now thou about the tires....Thanks Rooney3100

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zimmroe, Rooney3100 and others that might at some point request a highlighted copy of your AACA judging sheet here is a primer on how to figure out deductions if you have never been to an AACA judging school.

Because the question asked involves tires I will use them as the example, but the rules aply to every catagory of deductions where there is a range of how many can be taken per items. (Please note there are areas that require a mandatory deduction of a certain amount and those are circled on the form. An example of that would be the mandatory deduction of 10 points if a vehicle has been painted a non-authentic color.)

The highest deduction for tires is 3 points per tire and that also includes any spares that are in/on the vehicle.

However, we only take that full 3 point deduction if: The tire (or the item/items in question) is/are missing, incorrect (which would include if radials have been put onto a vehicle where they were not offered as a factory option-dealer options do not apply) or not able to be used for their intended purpose.

So any tire in good but not excellent conditon could have a one point deduction each. And a tire in fair but safe, usable condition could receive a two point deduction.

We can also deduct for things like tires that are filthy and it is old dirt and grime. We do not deduct for dirt/grass etc. that we can tell happened on the way to the show and onto the show field. Excessive use of tire shine can also warrant a deduction as tires did not come from the factory like that. Tires should look as they did when they came from the factory. So if you use tire protectant/shine buff of the excess so that the tire looks new but not wet.

Items such as valve stems, valve caps, wheels and rims are separate items and are deducted for on a different line as needed. They are deducted for in the same fashion.

Additionally, any deduction that is not fixed can be the very one that takes someone out of the "point spread" to get an award they are seeking. If you have what would be a 399 point car that one deduction will not stop you as you go through the system. Don't give point deductions away if you can fix what needs to be fixed or replaced.

Edited by Shop Rat
Additional information (see edit history)
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zimmroe, Rooney3100 and others that might at some point request a highlighted copy of your AACA judging sheet here is a primer on how to figure out deductions if you have never been to an AACA judging school.

Because the question asked involves tires I will use them as the example, but the rules aply to every catagory of deductions where there is a range of how many can be taken per items. (Please note there are areas that require a mandatory deduction of a certain amount and those are circled on the form. An example of that would be the mandatory deduction of 10 points if a vehicle has been painted a non-authentic color.)

The highest deduction for tires is 3 points per tire and that also includes any spares that are in/on the vehicle.

However, we only take that full 3 point deduction if: The tire (or the item/items in question) is/are missing, incorrect (which would include if radials have been put onto a vehicle where they were not offered as a factory option-dealer options do not apply) or not able to be used for their intended purpose.

So any tire in good but not excellent conditon could have a one point deduction each. And a tire in fair but safe, usable condition could receive a two point deduction.

We can also deduct for things like tires that are filthy and it is old dirt and grime. We do not deduct for dirt/grass etc. that we can tell happened on the way to the show and onto the show field. Excessive use of tire shine can also warrant a deduction as tires did not come from the factory like that. Tires should look as they did when they came from the factory. So if you use tire protectant/shine buff of the excess so that the tire looks new but not wet.

Items such as valve stems, valve caps, wheels and rims are separate items and are deducted for on a different line as needed. They are deducted for in the same fashion.

Additionally, any deduction that is not fixed can be the very one that takes someone out of the "point spread" to get an award they are seeking. If you have what would be a 399 point car that one deduction will not stop you as you go through the system. Don't give point deductions away if you can fix what needs to be fixed or replaced.

So what you are saying Susan is that tire size does not matter?

My New Bias Tires 6.70-15 Firestones Arrived today, they wil look real nice & original to the truck and I don't have to worry about any deductions on this subject at all........I just have to find someone that may want my 700-15 Universal Bias tires which are in very nice condition and have not seen the pavement.......Thanks.......Rooney3100

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No, I am sure that is not what she was attempting to say. I am relatively sure that she was trying to say that it is likely to lose one point per tire if they are an incorrect size, but if the tires are determined to be "incorrect", the potential deduction is 3 points each. Incorrect tire size makes a tire incorrect, warranting a potential 3 point deduction each. In the actual real world, while it could be 3 points each, it might be less.

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No, I am sure that is not what she was attempting to say. I am relatively sure that she was trying to say that it is likely to lose one point per tire if they are an incorrect size, but if the tires are determined to be "incorrect", the potential deduction is 3 points each. Incorrect tire size makes a tire incorrect, warranting a potential 3 point deduction each. In the actual real world, while it could be 3 points each, it might be less.

Thanks Matthew, I wasn't sure on that as i did not see that mentioned, anyway I have the tire issue covered, my tires arrived yesterday, Thanks for all the Help everyone on clarifing the Tire Size & Point deduction catagory................Rooney3100

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So what you are saying Susan is that tire size does not matter?

My New Bias Tires 6.70-15 Firestones Arrived today, they wil look real nice & original to the truck and I don't have to worry about any deductions on this subject at all........I just have to find someone that may want my 700-15 Universal Bias tires which are in very nice condition and have not seen the pavement.......Thanks.......Rooney3100

No, not sure where you got the idea I was saying that. Incorrect size, that had not been waived by the AACA as the correct size not being available, would be a serious deduction. If they were the correct bias ply vs. incorrect radials then you would not receive the full deduction per tire.

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No, I am sure that is not what she was attempting to say. I am relatively sure that she was trying to say that it is likely to lose one point per tire if they are an incorrect size, but if the tires are determined to be "incorrect", the potential deduction is 3 points each. Incorrect tire size makes a tire incorrect, warranting a potential 3 point deduction each. In the actual real world, while it could be 3 points each, it might be less.

MCH is correct. I was not stating that. I was putting out examples of how to read the highlighted copy so that people would not incorrectly "assume" that if an area is highlighted all the points were deducted. There is a scale to how we deduct for items.

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I heard from Rick Marsh. Seems he doesn't check his earthlink e-mail very often. :rolleyes:

Here is what he sent to me regarding your question.

"Good evening, Sorry for the late reply. I only check my earthlink account on occasion.

This is an interesting situation. 6.70-15 bias ply tires have been available for sometime. It could be that 11 years ago, Universal wasn't suppling them but, others were. I know because I bought a set of 7.10-15s in 2000 and they had 6.70s in stock from the tire supplier.

We tell our members that they should have the tires that came on the vehicle. If the correct size is not available, then we accept one size up or down.

Technically, the 6.70-15 is currently available. If the tires in question are 11 years old, then they are past due for replacement due to age deterioration. I wouldn't give my grandson a ride in an antique car with 11 year old tires on it.

Rick Marsh"

Hi Susan, When I read what Rick Marsh had wrote on this subject I assumed he is saying the there were 6.70-15 Blackwall Bias tires made in other places other than Universal tire, I wrote in a previous thread that I checked all the tire places for what I needed and they were not available in 2001, so I purchased the 7.00-15 tires, now they make 5 different styles of 6.70-15 blackwall tires, so I assumed that since Rick wrote the message, so I thought that I neeeded to find the correct tires or get points deducted, Sorry about the misunderstanding, I'm having my new tires put on Monday, the Tire issue is not an issue for me anymore..................THANKS Rooney3100

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Yes, Rick wrote the response (in blue) and I copied and pasted it exactly as he wrote it. I hope you will post some photos of your vehicle with it's "new shoes for Christmas". :cool:

Merry Christmas Everyone......:)

Well.....Here is my New Shoes For Christmas on my 1956 Chevy Truck.......I couldn't pull the truck completely outside because of Ice & Snow in my driveway........These are original to the truck so I won't have to worry about any points deducted on this topic anymore........Rooney3100

PA310566.jpg

PA310569.jpg

PA310568.jpg

PA310563.jpg

PA310562.jpg

PA310567.jpg

PA300557.jpg

PA310574.jpg

PA310571.jpg

As soon as the driveway pad is cleared off, I can take better pics outside..........

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Does your truck have a wooden floor in the bed and if so how did you finish it?

Yes my truck has a oak wooden bed, it is Black in color, here is a pic of it...........Do you have a wooden bed you are refinishing? Rooney3100

 

 

 

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj453/rooney3100/Restored%201956%20Chevrolet%203100%20Task%20Force/P2120497.jpg~original

 

 

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj453/rooney3100/Restored%201956%20Chevrolet%203100%20Task%20Force/PB010476.jpg~original

Edited by Rooney3100 (see edit history)
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