HOW TO SAFELY MOVE A CAR WITH A RUSTY FRAME?

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Needing some advice: I want to rescue a very complete and original '57 Century 4-door hardtop, which has unfortunately sat outside on the ground for about 40 years. With no wheels and tires. Oh dear. Why rescue it? Well, that's complicated. I'll explain later, with pictures, if I follow through with this.

The frame is bound to be structurally rusted, such that simply hooking a cable onto the front crossmember or rear axle and tugging might cause only the front crossmember or rear axle to be yanked out of the earth. The rest of the car could be either left behind or severely distorted in the process. Its resting place has restricted access and is surrounded on 2 1/2 sides by sheds and a wooden granary. Demolishing one or all of those to permit this extraction is a possibility.

Any bright ideas* on how to get this car off the ground and onto a flatbed trailer, while keeping it more or less in one piece?

(*Tested and proven bright ideas would be even better.)

[jscheib]

Rob,

I think your reason for saving it may be the driving force, as there are a lot of options, all quite costly. I would hate to use a sling and hoist under the roof, but by digging under it (before the ground freezes solid up there) allows for a sling and crane but you could also employ air bags, both of which seem quite costly. Perhaps you could work out a training deal with air bags by the local FD, if they employ that technique in your area. If you have to purchase the bags, maybe you can make a "donation" of them to recoup some of the expense. I am far from expert, but I think experts can use the bags to lift a truck that has rolled over where they cannot get in a tow truck or crane. But, with the bags, you still have to get something under it to move it. In any event, good luck with the project, both getting it moved asnd the restoration, as it sure seems like a lot of work.

John

[g-g-g0]

Rob:

I would consider jacking it up and getting one end or both on some support and actually examining the frame. That is a pretty massive and heavy frame under there! Once up in the air then you can put some plywood or planking down and use dollies like some of the tow truck's use in the US or maybe set it back down on plywood/planking and use the wood as a skid to drag it out. I used this method years ago when I was messing with cars from the 30's. A whole lot lighter vehicle but worked pretty effectively. Once you get it out in the open and free from the hole that it has settled into, then you have some room to get it jacked up and maybe back a trailer part way under it and winch it the rest of the way. Where there is a will there is a way!!!

Gary

[39BuickEight]

Jack it up just enough to get some pipes under it that it can roll on.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Thanks, those are all good options. I hadn't thought of air bags but I think that's too technical and specialized for the crude conditions in which this car is parked. A mobile crane and slings, with spreader bars, is an interesting approach that I'll look into.

Jacking the car up is probably the best start, no matter what follows. Even if the frame is bad, a vertical lift front and rear will probably work. As Gary says, that'll give me a view of how solid (or not) the structure appears to be. I like the idea of rolling the thing out of its "cave" on a series of pipes set on timbers. I'm a little afraid, though, that the things which sit lower than the frame rails - exhaust system, transmission, maybe the torque tube - could hamper that process. Hangups might mangle what remains of floor and sills, thereby damaging the doors, too, which I'd want to preserve.

Once lifted, dollying on planks is a good possibility because there happens to be a whole whack of 2x8 lumber stacked nearby. Once I get the car on dollies and out into the clear, it could readily be winched up ramps or onto a tilt-bed trailer.

There's a plan here, I just need to put the puzzle pieces together. Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked.

[jscheib]

I logged on this morning specifically to see what was new on this thread. I did have one more thought. If you could post some photos, some may have better ideas. When I first read it, I had the impression that you thought there was a real problem with jacking. Remember, you are not distributing the weight very much with jacks, and it seems to me it would be dificult to find a place to put a jack that would not distort the under side.

Also, the spot it is in seems difficult to access with heavy equipment. I would suggest talking to a company that specializes in large truck recovery. There is one usually designated by state police (in the US) for each geographic area and I suspect a similar arrangement in Canada. Just to see what they suggest.

John

[Dandy Dave]

Been there, Done that.... I agree with jacking it up. Get a shovel and dig a hole under the front, or rear, so that you can jack from the frame with a floor jack. If the frame and floors are completely gone you don't have much to save anyway so don't worry about it too much. Get the brake drums loose if possible so it will roll and get some wheels with air in them on it. I have also moved a lot of stuff with boards and pipe rollers. But it is best to have wheels under it even with the pipe and roller method if the drums do not come loose just to raise it. Too bad you are not close to me. I would help you get it out in one piece and moved if it is at all possible to do so. Dandy Dave!

Edited November 22, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

I did have one more thought. If you could post some photos, some may have better ideas. John

Yes definitely post some photos if at all possible. A crane will likely be cost prohibitive unless you have a friend in the business.

If its too sunk to get a jack under it easily to raise and inspect the frame, if someone local has a backhoe you can attach straps to the front or rear frame rails and try to slowly and carefully pick it up.

With the backhoe you can not only pull up but then horizontal as well and if no sign of major separation the car can be pulled out of its hole. I wish I lived local to assist. Sounds like fun!!!

If the frame is so rotted that it splits in two when trying to pull it out you may want to reconsider and just remove the parts you want while its sitting there. The amount of work and cost required to move it onto a trailer without collateral damage will be significant in this case especially depending what parts you need to save. Then you'll need to get it back off the trailer at its destination. With a rotted frame a crane or large forklift are a couple options.

I picked up a rusty Riv in NC a few years back. They were clearing a 70 year old salvage yard and selling the old cars for the scrap value to interested people vs crushing them. Many cars had rotted frames and were sunk. There primary mover was an old offroad forklift as shown

Edited November 22, 2012 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Rob,

Use the wood to support the axles front to back so both ends are supported. Then, slowly jack up each end while digging out the stuck parts. Make a ramp for dollies so you can lower it onto dollies and winch it onto a trailer.

You might do the same after disconnecting the axles so you can just lift the frame & body separately.

Remove all the interior and extra weight first to make it go easier.

[Smartin]

I hope you're not trying to save the doors for your Roadmaster, since they are not the same! What are your goals for saving the car? Do you need the body or drivetrain? I would try to fin the meatiest part of the frame and yank it out. Although that depends on how buried it really is.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Again, thanks guys for much good advice. I knew that some of you would have direct experience with extracting a car that has tried to become One With The Earth. The best counsel might be, "reconsider and just remove the parts you want while its sitting there."

In December, I'll take this to the next stage, if we don't get a ton of snow by then. If so, the adventure can wait until spring.

My interest in this hulk is that, on the same property, there's a very similar but restorable Buick that I can buy cheaply. Both cars are mechanically complete and both have excellent sheet metal, glass, and stainless trim - even good bumper ends! The interior fabrics are shot but nothing is missing. The one without wheels will be an excellent parts donor for the other. Although I don't plan to tackle another restoration, I do have access to dry storage and believe that one of these cars, at least, is worth saving.

[Dandy Dave]

Again, thanks guys for much good advice. I knew that some of you would have direct experience with extracting a car that has tried to become One With The Earth. The best counsel might be, "reconsider and just remove the parts you want while its sitting there."

In December, I'll take this to the next stage, if we don't get a ton of snow by then. If so, the adventure can wait until spring.

My interest in this hulk is that, on the same property, there's a very similar but restorable Buick that I can buy cheaply. Both cars are mechanically complete and both have excellent sheet metal, glass, and stainless trim - even good bumper ends! The interior fabrics are shot but nothing is missing. The one without wheels will be an excellent parts donor for the other. Although I don't plan to tackle another restoration, I do have access to dry storage and believe that one of these cars, at least, is worth saving.

Ey ey Captian. Get them both even if one comes out in pieces as you never know what you will need to get the other back to driving condition. Dandy Dave!

[1939_Buick]

Google "air lift bag" and "air bag lifting". You may be able to rent - hire

Paratech MAXIFORCE Air Lifting Bags

Air bag lifting | air bag lifting tools

As above, to me lifting if off the ground is step 1

[60FlatTop]

I just noticed this string. As I read through my thoughts were going in the same direction as Dandy Dave's. Just raise each suspension point and get a freely rotating wheel at each corner.

Raise the front at the lower shock mount on each side. Raise the rear ay the outboard end of the axle on each side. THOROUGHLY CLEAN AND CHASE THE THREADS FOR AT LEAST 3 WHEEL BOLTS PER WHEEL. Be sure the wheel bolts thread with your fingers. That is the only thing you can screw up if you make the car roll freely. Don't open any doors while the car id jacked up.

The small amount of effort to roll the car will not be enough to distort a fender or body panel unless the car is really bad.

When I was 13 I used a piece of pipe on a four-way lug wrench to put a wheel on a '39 Buick similar to your situation. When I was 14 I knew better and could explain why. At 64 I remember and can pass it on. It would be a shame to lose 50 years of stored knowledge.

Bernie

Oh, check the angle on this:

[Only Buicks]

Be carefull, this is what happens when you pull to hard, and this had tires but it was not rolling freely as the brakes shoes were dragging slightly on the drums. We strapped onto the rear axle and pulled it with a bucket loader.

Once we got it pulled out of the woods we found that all that was remaining of the frame was the X section. The side rails where completly gone.

Edited November 26, 2012 by 38Buick (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

GLENN, that's exactly what I'm a little afraid of. But don't worry, I'm sure the woods are still full of '53 Skylarks.

BERNIE, at least the frame on that Nash won't be rusted - it's unibody!

[60FlatTop]

The Nash shows the angle of inclination of framed cars pretty well. An inclinometer on the front of the Nash and the rear of the Skylark would read about the same. Frame and unibody are concepts. Making the wheels roll is a detail. "The crumple is in the details."

Bernie