Guest 501 Club Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hi folks. I have had my TC for about a year now and changed the oil for the third time a couple of days ago. Each oil change required 7.5 quarts of oil with a filter change. The owners manual and shop manual does not have the oil capacity of 7.5 quarts. What is the experience of other 16V owners when changing oil? 4.5 quarts? Anyone have ideas as to why the excess capacity? No complaints, as I welcome the extra oil capacity. Just want to know what others are experiencing. The engine has great oil pressure that fluctuates with engine speed, consumes no significant amout between changes and has what appears to be the original dipstick. I am using Royal Purple 5W-30 and sure am happy with how clean it appears when it's time to change it. Not so happy with the $9/qt price however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 4.5 is the recommended fill on stock oil pan, im pretty sure ive run 5 most of the time without any issues in my other 2.2Ls but those had the large pan with balance shaft assemby and the TC does not have the deep pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 When you said 7.5 quarts I thought you were running a diesel. I would suggest someone with a 16V measure their engine oil dip stick and post here, then you should check it with yours. There seems to be something definately wrong here. Almost any engine around uses 5l of oil with a filter change. Is there any sign of oil flushing out of the top pan or EGR valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Peaks Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The service manual says 4 qt. of oil with or without filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 501 Club Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks for the responses thus far. I am posting a couple of photos to help resolve this issue. One is the dipstick measured from the very top of the scroll/handle to the end of the stick which is 22 1/8 inches (photo). The measurement from the bottom of the shoulder of the rubber stopper to the end of the stick is 20.5 inches. I also posted a picture of the oil pan from the front drivers side )looking back (sorry as it's not a great photo). Potentially a different oil pan, but if so from what other engine could it be? There are no signs of overfilling, oil leakage, foaming, bubbles, extreme oil pressure fluctuations etc. There is no register of any oil on the stick until over 6 quarts has been added. Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 501 Club Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Mystery solved (kind of). Fairly certain it has a different oil pan than what it should have. I found the Ebay photos of the 16V that was for sale not too long ago and it appears the pan on my car is very different than what is on that Ebay engine. The bottom of the pan on the Ebay motor is almost flush with the bell housing of the transmission. My pan drops considerably more than the bell housing. It also appears to be a different shape. I posted to get other opinions. Now I need to make sure I have a VIN matching block instead of a different oil pan. Anyone know where the VIN is on the block? I found the VIN on the head which matches, but don't know where to look for the block. I am also concerned that the oil pick-up tube is not even close to the bottom of this pan as it should be. Guess I should wait until the dipstick reads 1 qt low and measure the oil when I change it to see just how low it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) sounds like you have a common block deep sump pan that was used on the motors with balance shaft assembly the bottom is very flat and the square in shape dipping down lower (90+ 2.2l and 2.5l motors), not the older style pan that is on the motors like the 16V that do not have a balance shaft assembly. both my 89 and 90 16V both had the pan as in the picture you posted, the #s identifying the year block are on the block are along the back above where the pans mates to it, vin for car should he on the driver side of the head.. sounds like you may have the wrong dipstick as the one for a deep sump pan is longer than the one that is used on the shallow pans. a picture of your dipstick handle would verify if its the stock one or if it was replaced. long as the correct pick up is used with the correct pan no problem except lots of oil sloshing, most run a baffle set up to keep the oil near the pickup to ward off starvation should you go around a turn or something to that nature when using a deep pan and running no balance shaft assembly. Edited October 20, 2012 by 89TC-16V (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 501 Club Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks for the great info 89TC-16V! This forum has been an excellent source of info for me. I have posted a pic of the top of the dipstick. Sure looks like original OEM. Have any idea as to how long the dipstick should be? I am thinking I can just go to the bone yard and pick one up out of any 2.2 or 2.5 with the same pan. Is this correct? It won't be calibrated to my engine but I can do that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) looks like stock dipstick and if thats the case its too short thats why you are not getting a reading at the correct oil fill amount. the TCs dipstick is a different i think than the other chrysler motors at least it looks like to me when ive had it out but the blocks are the same as any chrysler 2.2L so theres a chance, take the dipstick with you and compare. if you go back to the stock pan long as the stock pickup is still in it theres no problem, if not you have to change back. stock pan is more desirable and harder to find at least thats what i know from being in the turbo chrysler world. you have to get the correct pan also, commonblock or non common block, if yours is a 90 and does not have an oil pump block block off plate on the front of the block then its a common block and you need a commonblock pan. ive had both, my 89 is non has the block off plate, my 90 was common, didnt have it. depended on early or late build Edited October 21, 2012 by 89TC-16V (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_McNally Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Just measured both of mine - the 8V is 19 3/4 in to the bottom (underside) of the plastic part that hits the top of the dip-stick tube. On the 16V it's 20 3/4 in. And your top looks exactly like mine, so it's probably the stock one.Only non-diesel engine I've seen take that much oil is my Audi, which really does take 7 quarts. Maybe an old big-block hemi too, don't exactly remember...Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GLHNSLHT2 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 You've got a balance shaft pan on it, You'll have to measure the tube and see if it's the same length as the 8v motors. If so you'll need a dipstick for an 89+ 2.5 liter as that's the best way to make sure you get the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 having a balance shaft pan on a non balance shaft motor i guess as long as he has the correct oil pickup tube on it isnt a big problem, im just concerned about all the oil sloshing around because without a balance shaft assembly or a windage setup thats just a sea of oil in a deep pan that can move quite a bit around turns and hard stopping and possibly cause oil starvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 501 Club Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Okay so I have a couple of questions. 1. Is there a way to determine a balance shaft engine from a non-balance shaft without any teardown? 2. In looking at the 8v setup, the dipstick tube is routed straighter upright than the 16V due to the 16V intake manifold. The factory routed the tube to the right of the manifold in 16V's whereas in the photos I have seen of 8V, the tube is routed basically straight up. I have found some standard 8V turbo engines in other models at the bone yards, but don't think it would be a valid comparison. Any comments? This is still a mystery as all the previous maintenance reciepts show the normal amount of oil installed. But if that is the case, how did they know it was full because the oil did not show up on the dipstick? Uug, it really should not be this complicated, but I just don't have any evidence to support a conculsion at this point. Thanks for all the comments thus far. I will get to the bottom of this at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) its given there is not a balance shaft assembly in that motor, it wasnt made factory with one, didnt come out until 92 model year. the dipstick tube on a 8V and 16V should be the same length with the correct shallow pan that they were built with. with the deep balance shaft pan it uses a long dipstick from a 2.5l 8V engine. im questioning if you have the correct oil pickup tube as there different pans used different ones, size and length. i would get a correct pan and put it back on the engine. just a matter determining if the motor is common block or non commonblock and then purchasing a pan from a 87-89 2.2L chrysler car. then your dipstick would read correctly and there would never be any oil starvation possible issues down the road Edited December 22, 2012 by 89TC-16V (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GLHNSLHT2 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 As long as you have the matching 2.5 oil pump pickup you'll be fine. I and many other have ran around for decades without balance shafts in a balance shaft pan. Measure the length of of the 8v dipstick tube from the block to the end then do the same for the 16v. If they're the same then just get an dipstick for an 89+ 2.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89TC-16V Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 if you want to be true to correct and original you should have a shallow pan on the motor and also the shallow oil pump pickup tube. if someone only changed the pan and not the pickup tube it can be a problem as it wont reach the bottom of the pan. no way to know for sure without pulling the pan off. but hey good time to put a nice upgraded oil pan gasket in and do a main seal if its needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GLHNSLHT2 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I took some pics of the dipsticks today. They can be found here. Dipstick differences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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