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wyobob

new find-1929 Dodge 1/2 ton

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These frame numbers are lightly stamped and always take lots of patience to find.

This is on a DG8. I sat down next to the car with a patient attitude and a couple of cold beers and it just appeared in a place that I had looked several times before.

Even cleaned up they are hard to see.

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I wire brushed that area and used a magnifing glass, still don't see a thing-thanks

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That is a nice looking truck! It looks like everything is there (except the wheels). Good luck with it. and how about a few more photos?

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IF it's there I can't find it. Removed the wheel, brushed and looked with a magnifing glass- can't see a thing. Thanks

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(Spotted Horse Wyoming! Sounds like something out of Gunsmoke!) This is a photo of your truck as a 1929 Fargo Packet. It has the same large side window and the smaller one behind it. This is a Canopy Delivery. The text says it displays it's Plymouth origin fenders,headlamps and bumper but not the thin profile Plymouth car rad shell of the same year. It weighed 3,045 and cost $895 in this configuration. A cowl and chassis cost $545. It only had the driver's seat but a passenger seat was available. Tires were 6 ply -4.75X20. Which was the same as a '29/'29 Plymouth car. Were the wheels the same?? The running boards appear to be Plymouth car.

post-31311-143139207715_thumb.jpg

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Thanks, I believe that many components of this PU were Plymouth and I'm betting the wheels are too but I'm still waiting (it takes a long time to get mail in Spotted Horse) for some part books to verify for sure. Strangely enough mine has the spare on the drivers side. I'm cruising all the hot rod forums to see if some one has a '28 or'29 Plymouth they put on a modern chassis and want to sell wheels, engine, etc.

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Not to discourage you Bob but on your suggestion I looked within the numerical index of the Plymouth 1932 Master parts list and those numbers I gave in my earlier post do not appear.

Maybe KCL can give a better explanation or a more affirmative explanation but I believe the Fargo and Plymouth shared alot of components but the Dodge ended in relation with the partial drivetrain toward Plymouth.

I have some dated material that suggests that you were not really even purchasing a Plymouth motor but were in fact purchasing a truck with a re-designed motor entirely unlike that used in the earlier automobiles, Suggesting or seemingly hiding the Plymouth name.

The 4 cyl trucks were a tough sale, 6 could be had for not much more money.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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"1929 1/2ton DODGE Merchant's Express- 1st truck designed by Chrysler for it's Dodge Division. 4 cyl. Plymouth engine 175.4 ci. 109 " wheelbase(which was about 3" shorter than the Plymouth car). Hydraulic brakes. Headlight doors and rad shell were chrome plated. Serial number located on left side of frame just in back of front spring's FRONT bracket. Started P-1001. Engine numbers started UT-1001. Top speed 40 mph. Extra seat $20,bumpers $15. 3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines. Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates. "

Edited by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

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"1929 1/2ton DODGE Merchant's Express- 1st truck designed by Chrysler for it's Dodge Division. 4 cyl. Plymouth engine 175.4 ci. 109 " wheelbase(which was about 3" shorter than the Plymouth car). Hydraulic brakes. Headlight doors and rad shell were chrome plated. Serial number located on left side of frame just in back of front spring's FRONT bracket. Started P-1001. Engine numbers started UT-1001. Top speed 40 mph. Extra seat $20,bumpers $15. 3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines. Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates. "

This is partially incorrect, as I stated in a previous post these models were avail. with either a 4 or 6 cyl, also the truck was designed long before Chrysler came into office, he was just credited with the design.

I understand what Allpar site states and a few others if the truck were to be googled but that information is just either incorrect or lacking all of the data.

Trucks also were not Graham for a few years prior to this but were in fact built by Dodge employees in Dodge factories, they only in some case carried the nameplate of Graham as a sales tactic.

I used the phrase SE in a prior post when in fact technically these types of model descriptions were no longer used by this time but were in fact slowly phased out if I remember correctly during the prior year of 1928.

I am assuming I did not confuse anyone by the bodystyle I posted ( panel ) I am assuming that everyone understands that there were several different bodystyles avail for this chassis ( at least 6 if I remember correctly ) and several variations of that same chassis avail as well.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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This is a a synopsis from a reliable source. This source says the 'SE' designation was used in 1929 for their 6 cylinder Merchant Express which used the Victory Six car engine. The actual statement for the '4 cylinder' is "In May 1929 the 1st all new truck designed and built by Chrysler was introduced." Also "They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates." Also " The new Merchant Express designed and engineered by Chrysler............" All this under 1929 Dodge Merchant Express 1/2 ton Panel. Can it all be incorrect?

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Sorry to stick my oar in here, but in my experience with research, the trouble is that when an error is made, subsequent writers fail to do the research from scratch but simply repeat the errors. There are many motoring books which have been written by authors who simply paraphrase what they have read in other equally poorly researched books. It's all about getting into print quickly and making a quick buck, in my view. A motoring historian friend of mine has been writing a book on the genesis of Jaguar and he has been researching for over 25 years. He probably never will finish it. A charity has been set up to publish the research of the late Michael Sedgwick - probably the greatest motoring historian of our time - because when he died, there was so much valuable information which needed to be published.

So, yes KCL, it could all be cobblers!!

Ray

Edited by R.White (see edit history)

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This is a a synopsis from a reliable source. This source says the 'SE' designation was used in 1929 for their 6 cylinder Merchant Express which used the Victory Six car engine. The actual statement for the '4 cylinder' is "In May 1929 the 1st all new truck designed and built by Chrysler was introduced." Also "They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates." Also " The new Merchant Express designed and engineered by Chrysler............" All this under 1929 Dodge Merchant Express 1/2 ton Panel. Can it all be incorrect?

I am having a hard time understanding what you are either stating or asking because it appears to me to be a run of sentences but as far as the SE designation that I originally used on the first page of this thread after Chrysler took control he began phasing out these old abbreviated symbols.

SE does not appear on a majority of my factory literature/handbooks but does still show up in aftermarket publications from what I am able to quickly see.

Merchant Express or SE was a 1/2 ton model, you stated above ............3/4 ton and 1 ton had 6 cylinder Dodge car engines............I am saying that the 1/2 tons did as well. I hope you can see the confusion.

OK I am glad that you brought this up as it will hopefully help Bob, if there is any more confusion KCL continue with your questions and maybe both of us will learn something.

Apparently from what I have just found the SE designation was dropped even from aftermarket publications ( that I own ) in April of 1929. May of 1929 unveiled a new model which again did not carry the SE and the W.B was changed from 110 down to 109 inches, at this time the the 6 cyl option was dropped and a 4 cyl was only made avail up until at least Dec 1930 which is where I stopped looking.

So at least from as early as Jan 1929 thru April of 29 only a 6 cyl was avail for the 1/2 ton M.E and as stated above 4 cyl later.

Bob this will help date your truck to being built approx/more than likely After Jan 29 up until the April. Maybe sometime in 28, I will still need to work on this.

KCL I cant follow what you are getting at up until the point, you said .........Trucks were really Graham with Dodge nameplates...........Now you say ...........They were basically the former Graham Bros. trucks with new nameplates..........Like I mentioned above, these later trucks were not Graham trucks, Graham left D.B in 25, maybe 27, cant remember as its getting late now but these trucks were not connected with the brothers in any way, there were many design changes to these trucks after the Brothers had any hand in them.

People / publications like to say G.B because it separates the series, makes everyone feel special but that is all its doing.

I cant make out the rest, if you would like to clarify than it all makes for good conversation.

BTW there were SE,SEWs DE DEWs and on and on, differences were in the W.B to be sure, may have been other places as well.

Also you say ........This is a a synopsis from a reliable source.......I am curious, what is this source, lets share what we have since we both have such an interest. I try and use factory literature, that is not always the only avenue but as you know it does give the clearest idea on what was truly going on.

As Ray mentioned there is alot of muck out there.

Quote........Can it all be incorrect..........Its not a matter of being incorrect maybe, just a matter partially of looking at only part of the picture. Its easy to do and I can be accused of it myself more often than I care to admit

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

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Sorry to stick my oar in here, but in my experience with research, the trouble is that when an error is made, subsequent writers fail to do the research from scratch but simply repeat the errors. There are many motoring books which have been written by authors who simply paraphrase what they have read in other equally poorly researched books. It's all about getting into print quickly and making a quick buck, in my view. A motoring historian friend of mine has been writing a book on the genesis of Jaguar and he has been researching for over 25 years. He probably never will finish it. A charity has been set up to publish the research of the late Michael Sedgwick - probably the greatest motoring historian of our time - because when he died, there was so much valuable information which needed to be published.

So, yes KCL, it could all be cobblers!!

Ray

I know of a DC-8 Dodge tech advisor who is going thru the same thing. I dont know if we are ever going to see it!

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well, thanks every one of you working on this, obviously it is going to take some time to sort it all out. To confuse things even more the Dodge Brothers Master Parts list which I now have states that at serial #p-1154, they changed almost ever part # relating to wooden wheels. Haven't looked at many other components yet, so don't know what all else they changed after building only 150 units. I now have 6 different locations for serial #'s which I will have do more diligent searching to see if I can find it ( yes I really need to know)

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well, thanks every one of you working on this, obviously it is going to take some time to sort it all out. To confuse things even more the Dodge Brothers Master Parts list which I now have states that at serial #p-1154, they changed almost ever part # relating to wooden wheels. Haven't looked at many other components yet, so don't know what all else they changed after building only 150 units. I now have 6 different locations for serial #'s which I will have do more diligent searching to see if I can find it ( yes I really need to know)

Hi Bob, not sure what you mean by 6 different areas to look, can you elaborate. Can you also post a picture of the 8 you found and where you found it, highlight it with chalk if you have to maybe

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In these posts above there are references to 6 areas where the serial #s have been found (I think maybe 2 of them were private emails) The "8" is in a circle about 3/4 in. high, located on the drivers side frame just about centered between the front spring brackets. Locations where others found serial # are left frame behind spring mount, a plate on the cowl, drivers side towards engine, top flange of drivers side frame between spring mounts, tag on passenger toe board, and pass. side front frame.

In reading the parts book, I found that later models had an electric fuel pump ( this one does) made by United Motors Service. I thought someone had removed the vacuum tank! Lots of learning going on in Spotted Horse.

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I believe you are mis-reading something, later models would have had a mechanical fuel pump but that would be a later model than yours.

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I just had a thought. A 1929 plymouth is a Model U. I wonder if this truck is a Model U Truck as in 'UT'?

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In the "Dodge Bros.Truck Master Parts list" the first entry on page T-14-7 is for Oil and Gasoline Pump prior to fuel pump #319947, on page T-14-17 bottom left hand column is the part # for the vacuum tank #304682. I will post a photo of the item in question as well as the "8" on the frame.

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Here is the electric fuel pump 1 line in from gas tank, other line to carb. The sediment bulb is gone, the electric wire is visible just above the street ell on the left side of photo. The other photo is the "8" Robert

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post-50233-143139211723_thumb.jpg

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I just had a thought. A 1929 plymouth is a Model U. I wonder if this truck is a Model U Truck as in 'UT'?

The U indicates a Plymouth engine 4 cyl, all early 4 cyl Plymouth powered trucks are U,s

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In the "Dodge Bros.Truck Master Parts list" the first entry on page T-14-7 is for Oil and Gasoline Pump prior to fuel pump #319947, on page T-14-17 bottom left hand column is the part # for the vacuum tank #304682. I will post a photo of the item in question as well as the "8" on the frame.

They are referring to a vacuum tank, after vacuum tank came the mechanical fuel pump. That pump you have will be aftermarket.

I dont believe there was such a thing as an electric fuel pump until sometime in the 50s when fuel injection was made popular but I may be off on that.

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Futher research last night shows that the wooden wheels, bearings, seals and steering wheel are the same part numbers as Plymouth " U " I think the gauges are too. They should of called these Plymouth pickups.

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Futher research last night shows that the wooden wheels, bearings, seals and steering wheel are the same part numbers as Plymouth " U " I think the gauges are too. They should of called these Plymouth pickups.

I hope you are not going to abandon us for the Plymouth forum just as we were getting to know you??

Ray

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