2013 BCA National Meet, South Bend, Indiana

[Booreatta]

The dividing line is clear or this topic. I see all sides and this issue is one that needs to be discussed in the membership meeting at the national. The NMC, judges, BOD, and the membership at large have a point, and it looks like there could be 4 sides to this issue. What needs to happen like Brian said, all members who have an opinion on this contact your board members and make your views known. The NMC, judges and members will all have input but the BOD are the ones who must make the decision and make it work. As a member of the NMC I think this needs to be discussed in more depth. Besides maybe more members would come to the membership meeting at South Bend.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

Chuck Kerls

[old-tank]

I was going to bring either my 73 Limited or a newly purchased Reatta. Either way, I want all cars together for so many good reasons, many of which have already been pointed out. I doubt I will ever have a judged car, not important to me. But either car which I would consider bringing are low mileage originals (paint/engine/interior). I would want to be with my group so judged restored cars can be compared to my original and so mutual owners can easily communicate with like minded individuals about that period of Buick. In Bill Mc's case, I certainly want to see all period Buicks together judged or not. It's very impressive to see all together. Or in Willie's case, all 55's together where you can review all the different models, convertibles, doors, etc from stripper Special to Roadmaster convertibles. Willie's point about class (warfare) issues are 100% spot on as well. Many of the BCA leaders and interested parties have gone out of their way in recent years to promote joint interests and mutual meets and now here we might segregate drivers who bring totally acceptable cars - like my 67,000 mile original 73 Limited - from show cars. Should this decision which apparently was 'driven' and put into law by 2-3 individuals not have been better vetted by a larger number of knowledgeable individuals? This points out a flaw in putting so much power in the hands of so few. The National Meet Committee - in my opinion - should have these issues voted on by a larger group. Mike can still administrate, but in this case it appears he made an individual decision on behalf of a much larger group.

It is my understanding the the National Meet Committee did not make this decision as a group...it was a decision made by Mike Book and Alan Oldfield (members of the committee) with input from Rick Schick. So what good is a committee if other members of the committee are as surprised as I am.

So, where is the proposed parking? A satellite map of the host hotels shows a large mostly contiguous parking lot. Will all of the registered cars be parked there or on some other remote parking lot. I registered a the host hotel so I would not have do much walking or driving this year.

Willie

[The Old Guy]

The BCA is being overrun with " class conscousness " The rules are changed by a small group that "runs" the organization , and it is quite evident that cars are the last thing on their minds. I tried for some time to talk some sense into the BOD, but they are NOT interested in members that actually have Buicks that are driven !!!

WHAT A SHAME

[38Buick 80C]

Well folks. it's already been decided. The Mafia strikes again!!! PM me if you want details of the BS.

[BUICK RACER]

I was considering bringing a Senior Car in a TRAILER, to get a Senior Preservation Award, last year my 1999 Riviera Silver Arrow #12 was driven to Charlotte as display and was parked with the Rivieras was way cool, and I worked parking the GS Class, but walking over to see the Driver and Archive Cars was a PIA, and it was HOT! To not put cars in together by year,whether judged or not is just absurd. You know we could have done this where it should have been, in Flint for 110 years of Buick, 50 Years of Riviera, and no judging, and all cars displayed together, by year but............ "no comment"

This is your club, make your thoughts known, or contend with the outcome. Enough said.

[bhclark]

The BCA is being overrun with " class conscousness " The rules are changed by a small group that "runs" the organization , and it is quite evident that cars are the last thing on their minds. I tried for some time to talk some sense into the BOD, but they are NOT interested in members that actually have Buicks that are driven !!!

WHAT A SHAME

Not all of us....some of us are just as interested in the unrestored and driven class cars. Not to mention the modified and Display cars!

After all,

"The BCA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and restoration of automobiles built by the

Buick Motor Division of General Motors Corporation."

I would argue that this mission statement is missing something vital and would like to see "ENJOYMENT" added to it.

I was considering bringing a Senior Car in a TRAILER, to get a Senior Preservation Award

Would that go in the Archival class or the Trailer class? :confused:

Edited May 13, 2013 by bhclark (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Perhaps the Driven class is the place for me...as in driven to drinking.

ALL Buicks at the National are valid and valued whether display, judged, driven, archival, trailered, modified, in progress, or whatever. Not every member is going to like every one of them, but so what. I like some customs, while others don't do much for me. That doesn't mean I want any of them segregated.

You know, there's almost nothing worse than someone coming up to you near the end of the meet asking did you see that <insert your favourite to be drooled over Buick> and you go "Huh?" because it was driven, so on the other side of the building or in another parking lot. Well, it could be worse if it was for sale, affordable, and exactly what you were looking for, but you missed it because you missed an entire group of vehicles off to the side somewhere that you weren't aware of. I guess it would be worse - not meeting up with Buick buddies who were at the meet.

It is what it is for South Bend this year. If the show field in its entirety is well laid out and well signed, it shouldn't matter much...we should be able to see the vehicles of interest and hopefully bump into all our old friends and meet some new ones. I still believe it ought to be simple to use different coloured cards for the different classes to ease the judging on Saturday. Beyond that, park them, see them, photograph them, love them, and remember them.

[jscheib]

Derek,

I assume you can get an ufficial comment, but color coded cards are used, see page 18 of the JUdging Manual.

John

Edited May 13, 2013 by jscheib
added title and it is color coded cards, not cars as I had before (see edit history)

[The Old Guy]

Brian

You say the BCA is committed to the PRESERVATION of Buicks ,and the jduges gig the cars for having paint less than perfect,and a door that doesen't fit quite right. Buick never built a "perfect" car !! They built GREAT cars ond for being bult on an "assembly line" .they turned out well, but they weren't perfect.

[buick5563]

Wow,

Since I will not be able to attend the National this year, I ignored this thread. It seemed like just people asking what hotel they should "stay at"... I just checked in on a whim and saw this.

I have been on record here since the Driven Class was started saying that the "orphan" Driven class should be organized with their 400 point peers. While I appreciated the 1928 or 29 Buick that drove from Maryland last year, I would not have as much in common with him as I would with other 1955 owners. It is silly to think that Driven class judges can't walk the entire show field in a couple of hours. They are just giving away a small plaque (Sorry if that offends)...on the showfield! Who cares how long that takes? There is no tabulation necessary. The Archivals should be parked with the others in their class so people can see the Old Guy's imperfect gaps and merely decent paint. What about people like me who drove their car 1800 miles to get their first Senior award? Which trailer driver could relate to me? Oops. That is the class warfare we are talking about. There were people asking me why I would drive my beautiful car there. Stop making more classes and "parking lots". It reflects poorly on the BCA if you see a bunch of (in my case) 55's parked together, then you wander over somewhere else because you had to use a Porta Potty, and you say "Wow, another 55...why is this one over here?"

If the cars are separated, you merely have any old Saturday Sonic Drive In "Crooze Nite".

Please BOD, NMC, whoever else. Reconsider what you are doing here.

Respectfully,

[old-tank]

So, where is the proposed parking? A satellite map of the host hotels shows a large mostly contiguous parking lot. Will all of the registered cars be parked there or on some other remote parking lot.

Willie

Where?? Mike? Anybody?

I want to be pithed-off now and not when I get to the meet (that way I will have gotten over it)

[BUICK RACER]

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=south+bend+indiana&aq=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wl

[JohnD1956]

Add one more agreeing that cars should be parked by age/year, not by class. I judged for the first time last year so I do not have a lot of experience or historical perspective on the judging process. Still, it seems to me that the bigger time delay in judging was the administrative end, with review, upon review, upon review, and not the time spent looking at and assigning a value to the cars themselves.

But it's sad to hear people say they have not much commonality with other Buick club members parked next to them just because that car is not the same age as their own.

[Guest BJM]

John, Cars are parked together by year or type but we walk around to see all the Buicks. I don't think it's any way a slam on seeing a Reatta owner next to a 29 Buick.

[bhclark]

So, where is the proposed parking? A satellite map of the host hotels shows a large mostly contiguous parking lot. Will all of the registered cars be parked there or on some other remote parking lot.

Willie

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=south+bend+indiana&aq=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wl

Or, Here is a photo of the actual parking lot. https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.709683,-86.252541&spn=0.004038,0.005681&t=h&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all

Edited May 14, 2013 by bhclark (see edit history)

[buick5563]

But it's sad to hear people say they have not much commonality with other Buick club members parked next to them just because that car is not the same age as their own.

I hear you John D, really.

But I did say AS MUCH in common as other similar cars.

Another reason for putting them all together would be the mentoring aspect. Someone who signs up for the Driven Class (for example) MAY have done so because they have what they consider to be a "lesser" car. They get intimidated by the shiny chrome and $20k paint jobs. These folks need to be encouraged that not only "rich doctors" who restore with their checkbooks can proudly show their cars. Many of my peers have benefitted from the experiences of those who have gone before them. The people who know the specifics about these cars. I met my mentor probably twenty years ago. I was shy around him, because my car didn't run right. It had original chrome, and cracks in the windshield. He helped me with his years of knowledge to assist me in making my car what I wanted it to be. NOT what the club or anybody else wanted. I was 25 years old and here is a guy who is willing to help out with parts, advice and bad jokes. A guy I wouldn't have met at a local Camaro heavy parking lot show.

Over the years we have become friends.

I have tried to pass on my knowledge, not only to 1955 Buick owners. A perfect example is the Forum-based advice we gave to 1957buickjim. We encouraged him to make the car he wanted. He just happened to score highly (Senior) also after driving. He and I shared many stories at the Nationals, as well as hanging out with some rowdy Minnesota Riv owners etc.

I guess my point is, that I don't dislike the people who drive Reattas or Pre-War Buicks, I just can't talk to them in the same way I do with other folks who drive similar cars to mine.

I continue to say that the BCA is about the people and camaraderie, but lets not make it harder to make newer members to feel welcome...and included.

[jscheib]

OK, we have had coments from many sides. But, we have to face it. In the grand scheme, this forum is more or less, a sort of vocal minority of the total membership. So at this point, might I suggest a poll which could be in the registration packet. This poll would go out to only those in Driven Class and Atchival. Perhaps the majority of the membership might think differently than those on the forum. Simply ask if they prefer seprate area or included with others. I can state that I have heard comments, and some do not even show their cars becuase they do not want to be parked next to a "trailer queen". This way, we might get the thoughts of all members at the meet, which should be more representative of all then the comments we have on the forum. I do not mean to diminish the thought expressed thus far, and I do lean toward combining, but this is a simple quarter page form. I would be glad to collect and count them (with a committe e of three, so we do not have a conspirancy theory suggestion) if necessary.

Incidentially, I do not fit into the "rich doctor" class, but sacrificed spending elsewhere and being frugal in other areas to get my car restored. I admit I was also helped by a forced early retirement and downsizing, by finding a rather good 6 year consulting contract with a competing organization. Of course, I did start with a well maitained original but tired, slightly neglected, but running example. I just got tired of looking and some faded, dull paint, some tears in the interior, dull chrome and dented fenders. And the car was a gift from my father. So, it could have been an Archival, but at 80+ years it would still need to be towed to many events. So I made the decision. In today's market, it might well be worth more now that what I spent for restoration by leaving it alond. However, I now am pleased with the decision. Although I know doctors with well restored cars, here in CT, as elsewhere there are many people who restored cars with a bit less cash flow.

John

[buick5563]

John,

I appreciate your comments. I would welcome your idea about a form in the registration packet.

It has been said before that we are a small but vocal group here on the forum. It has even been said that we are only one percent of the BCA. The good thing about the forum is that we have daily updates and passionate members who may agree or disagree, but at least our feelings are stated.

If we are indeed the "One Percenters" what do we call the people who vote for the BOD? You and I only received about 350 votes last year out of 8,500 (approximately) members. So only maybe 600 people vote. How about the National attendance numbers? 500 or less cars at the recent shows. Here is the thing. There is overlap on these numbers. I am on the forum, I vote, and I usually attend the Nationals. Lets say even a small percentage do all three....say one tenth. That makes sixty people who vote, attend the National meets and are on the Forum. That sounds low, but lets start there. That means that there are (using my 8,500 members as just a number) 8,540 people who DON'T participate as much as we do. If you can't do at least one of these things and all you want is a monthly magazine, what do they care if we park together or not?

FWIW, I believe I was making $45k / year when I restored my first 55. That $9,000 paint job took me a while to pay off

[jscheib]

Mike,

You are correct. One thing with the question in the packet, there would be still no guarantee that those attending would actually vote, but we would have an idea of what was felt by the attendees. As you pointed out, there is an overall apathy until someone does not like what is decided by the "deciders".

John

[smithbrother]

Good Morning,

I haven't read each and every post on this thread, so forgive me it this info has been posted....

How many cars will the host lot hold?, how many cars do you think will be attending?, and where will visitors be parking?

I will be bringing my modified 41 Limited, kind of feel I need to hide it, don't want to upset any of you good folks. So need to know approx. where I will be able to park, (IN GENERAL).

Love this site, love my two Buick's. I will be bringing my 1945 Buick float model, and my art deco model of a semi-truck Buick car hauler, 27" long. Maybe I can set up a card table to display such, should anyone want to see. Been a Buick guy since the late 40's, so feel I will fit in, well except my modified, but we will enjoy meeting lots of you. I plan on wearing a big sign, SMITH BROTHER, so POKE me if you like, and say HELLO. I would love to meet many of you, and see your car/cars.

Dale in Indy

[Bill - 29 Buick]

As I have voiced above, I am for Archival cars to be parked with all other cars of their era vs. in a separate class at BCA National meets. If you agree with this for Archival, Display or other groups, I suggest you voice your opinion directly to the BCA Board of Directors, National Meet Committee and Chief & Meet Judges. Here are their names and emails. Just copy and paste into your own email and send off. If you want a copy of my email to them, please PM me.

Rick Young <buickman@ymail.com>

Kevin Kinney <gmebody@q.com>

Jerry Courson <jerrylcourson@gmail.com>

Brian DePouli <brian.depouli@att.net>

Kris Syrdal <kmsyrdal@att.net>

Mark Lob <marklob@gmail.com>

Dick Sweeny <rivsrus1@cox.net>

Brian Clark <1959buick@gmail.com>

Keith Horsfall <buicklover@rogers.com>

Bill Stoneberg <bill.stoneberg@gmail.com>

Chuck Kerls<booreatta@cox.net>

Jeff Brashares <jeff1952@tts-us.com>

Alan Oldfield <aoldfield@magid.com>

Rick Schick <buickman@wideopenwest.com>

Mike & Nancy Book <buickcluboffice@aol.com>

Bill McLaughlin

1929 McLaughlin Buick Roadster

[Bill - 29 Buick]

Trying again with the list of emails as the forum seems to eliminate them. If they don't come through, please PM me.

Rick Young < buickman@ymail.com>

Kevin Kinney < gmebody@q.com>

Jerry Courson < jerrylcourson@gmail.com>

Brian DePouli < brian.depouli@att.net>

Kris Syrdal < kmsyrdal@att.net>

Mark Lob < marklob@gmail.com>

Dick Sweeny < rivsrus1@cox.net>

Brian Clark <1959buick@gmail.com>

Keith Horsfall < buicklover@rogers.com>

Bill Stoneberg < bill.stoneberg@gmail.com>

Chuck Kerls< booreatta@cox.net>

Jeff Brashares < jeff1952@tts-us.com>

Alan Oldfield < aoldfield@magid.com>

Rick Schick < buickman@wideopenwest.com>

Mike & Nancy Book < buickcluboffice@aol.com>

Bill McLaughlin

1929 Mclaughlin Buick

[rivgs]

Dale,

The last thing you need to worry about is hiding your 41 from us. I love 41 Limiteds and I am looking forward to seeing it. Being your car is modified, you will be parking with the other modified Buicks ( The ""Buicks our way" group have some very nice cars and are very nice people ).

[buick5563]

+1

[old-tank]

Ok, now that it have been determined that that only the 400 point judged cars will be in the host hotel lots, where are the step-children going to be parked? St Mary's College? (lots here are 200-600 meters from the host hotel.)

Is there designated parking for the general public? Where?

I have choices and decisions to make:

Stay home (not an option, since it means that you won)

Forgo registration and park with the general public (and miss out on the hospitality room?)

Cancel host hotel reservations and get a much cheaper room miles away since I will probably be driving anyway.

Register the car for judging; park it lock it and leave it on the show field ( I'll be close with the 55's...just have to hide when the judges come around)

One more time: where are the step-children going to be parked?

Willie

[Guest 1951 Buick]

For those of you who have seen the aerial view of the parking lots, the Hilton Garden Inn and Gillespie Convention Center are on the left and the Inn At St. Mary's is on the right. Until we know how many cars we get registered the plans are that we will begin parking Class A in the far left parking lot and continue the classes until we run out of room on that lot. We will then start on the Inn At St. Mary's lot with the remaining classes. We believe that the Archival Class and the Modified Class will fit on the Inn At St. Mary's lot, but we need a good portion of the parking spaces up close to the Inn At St. Mary's hotel for the outside vending area. On the far left of the aerial view are two smaller parking lots on the other side of a service road that runs next to the hotel and on back to St. Mary's College. The front parking lot will be used for BCA general parking for those who are unable to find a place for modern iron in front of the hotels. The second small lot will be used for the Driven Class and the Display only cars and possibly the car corral. The big lot you see going back that service road and bending to the left is the huge lot we'll be using for trailer parking. The trailer lot is within easy walking distance to the show field and the second smaller lot is very close to the show field and the entrance to the Registration area.

Now, if we do not get as many cars as we currently expect, we'll attempt to move the Driven Class back to the Inn At St. Mary's lot with Archival and Modified. Nancy & I are taking two cars to South Bend, the '51 Special that we've owned for 35 years and driven to California and many other states for BCA Meets as well as our '89 Riv. Our two cars are Display only and will be in with all the other Display only cars.

I hope this answers the questions as to where the cars will be. If not, pick up the phone and call me with any questions you might have. The BCA Office number is 614-472-3939.

Mike Book, BCA # 9202

BCA Office Manager

2013 BCA National Meet Co-Chair

[buick5563]

Thank you Mike.

[JohnD1956]

Hey Mike B, can you verify if I have this correct?

Deleted this incorrect photo and replaced it a few entries below with an updated one.

Edited May 16, 2013 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[Guest 1951 Buick]

You are fairly close to being correct, John. The 400 point is ok, the 400 point, Archival, Modifiied is ok. The lot that you labeled Driven will be Spectator/General parking. The lot you labeled Spectator will be Driven and the lot you labeled trailer will be display. We may switch the Display and Driven depending on car numbers. To see the trailer lot, expand your map to the left and you'll see St. Mary's College and Angela Arena and just to the left of that you'll see a huge parking lot that will hold the trailers.

Mike

[Thriller]

Just booked into the Waterford Estates Lodge, about a mile north of the venue. Since we'll have at least one driven class car, I don't mind making the trip. After a day I may get adventurous and walk (typically walk the dogs 1.5 to 2 miles a day and I'll be missing that). Friday's road test may clear the waters a bit as to what is going southeast, so I can then get the registration in.

[Guest BJM]

John D

Thank you for the work you did to add the visual to the issue. This shows that all the cars are fairly close. I still think they should be mixed, but prior to your map one had the impression of needing to walk 1/2 mile to see the driven cars or just cars brought to the meet not judged.

[JohnD1956]

My pleasure Bryan. Here is an updated picture based on the information Mike B. confirmed.

[Guest 1951 Buick]

Keep in mind that the number of cars we get in the Driven and Display classes will determine the use of both lots. If we can get both groups on the same lot that is more visable from the main show field, we will do that.

Mike

[Guest 4 bufords]

i'm getting excited already,looks like about 62 days but who is counting.see everyone there,4 bufords from ct

[Thriller]

Look out Indiana (and Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois too...)! Teresa passed her road test this morning, so the Reatta should be there in the Driven Class, as well as the pace car and the surprise.

[BUICK RACER]

You better have her driving everyday till it's time, that's a long way for a new driver!

[smithbrother]

Roberta, don't forget, the one thing that's in their favor, (IT'S DOWN HILL ALL THE WAY, SO THEY CAN JUST COAST). Now going home will be a different story, pray for a strong Northern wind at your back.

Wishing you well, for sure.

Dale in Indy

[JohnD1956]

Just got my registration confirmation: # 220! Ya Hoo!!!

[bhclark]

Just got my registration confirmation: # 220! Ya Hoo!!!

220?

Mike, how does that compare to previous meets at this point and what is the current estimate based on the current registrations vs. past Meets?

[Booreatta]

Just got my registration confirmation: # 220! Ya Hoo!!!

Just got mine today also #225. I got it via email, that is the way to go. Glad to see the club saving money.

good job Roy

Chuck