'65 -Turbine 400 : Kickdown and Speedo Question?

[Guest 1965cat]

I have a stock '65 Wildcat recently rebuilt motor and trans. Thanks to help from you, the cars runs good. I have a couple trans questions:<P>1. My speedo cable does not turn when the car is moving down the road. I checked the platic gear in the tranny, it appeared to be good.. no broken teeth or gouges... The cable is good, the end at the speedometer turns when I turn the cable by hand at the <BR>tranny. Any suggestions?<BR>2. My kickdown for passing gear isn't working. When I stomp the accelerator, I can hear the second two barrells open on the AFB and the car does pickup speed, but it does not kick-down to second gear. I have checked the connections and everything appears to be ok. How would I check the electronic kick-down switch to be sure it is sending voltage (I assume) to the tranny? Also, I had a reputable transmission shop rebuild the tranny (bench job) which included a new torque converter. From reading other posts here, I assume I should have a "Swith-Pitch" (??) torque converter.. How can I be sure I have the correct converter and would this have any affect on the transmission not downshifting properly?<P>Thanks again for any help,<P>Mark<BR>BCA #372362

[Guest]

Hi Mark,<BR> I would make sure the driven gear is actually turning when the wheels are turning. The drive gear on the output shaft of the trans may be misinstalled and not be meshing properly with the driven gear. Get the rear wheels off the ground and try turning the wheels by hand while watching the driven gear. (cable disconnected)<BR> As far as your kickdown is concerned, it should be easy to check. If the trans is an ST-400 switch pitch, it will have an electrical connector on the drivers side of the trans with two prongs. The vertical one is for the kickdown, the horizontal one is for the converter. Get a 12 volt test light or voltmeter and check for 12 volts at the switch near the gas pedal. You can also use a ohmmeter to verify that the switch is working. Next check to see if you have 12 volts at the trans connector. When 12 volts is applied to the connector, you should hear a click when the downshift solenoid in the pan energizes. If you do not get the click, the solenoid is bad or there is a problem with the connections inside the pan. In any case replacing the solenoid is an easy job (2 bolts) once you drain the pan. The same is true for the switch pitch connector, apply 12 volts you should hear a click from the pan. Hope this helps, let me know how you make out.<BR> Larry

[Guest]

Larry's right on, but I wanted to add that you shouldn't panic if while testing the "switch pitch" electric solenoid you don't hear anything...it's attached to the pump at the front of the transmission and is not as audible as the detent (downshift) solenoid, since it's buried deep inside the tranny. Some of the ones I've checked can be clearly heard; with others it's more difficult.<P>As far as having the right converter or not, I wouldn't worry too much. The 'variable pitch' (VP) converter cannot fit a 1968 & later 400, and vice-versa is true as well, so your VP trans can't be running a more modern, non-VP converter unless other parts have been updated too. This means converter, input shaft and front pump among other things.<P>Good luck & let us know how the testing goes.<P>Devon

[Guest 1965cat]

Thanks guys for the tips.. I will try those tests this weekend and post the results..<P>Thanks,<P>Mark

[Guest 1965cat]

I put 12 volts to each prong on the connector and heard a "clink" each time. So it appears each solenoid is working. I was not getting 12 volts at the gas pedal switch... after a few adjustments, I was getting 12 volts at the switch and tranny. I took it for a test drive and it will kickdown to passing gear about half the time. I tried moving the gas pedal by hand with engine not running and I could hear the solenoid activating in the tranny. I think the problem I am having is the solenoid is activating too soon... When I move the throttle linkage from idle the solenoid clicks in the tranny.. I assume the solenoid should only click when I put some extra force on the gas pedal?? Then again, I can't tell which solenoid I am hearing, the kickdown or torque converter?? There is a little black switch on the top of the throttle linkage (after if comes out of the firewall), what is that switch supposed to do? Engage the kickdown or the torque convertor solenoid... I am confused on how the linkage works in conjunction with each solenoid <P>I am going to hook a voltage meter to each connector and see when voltage is applied at different throttle positions.. Would this help me better understand how the throttle system works?<P>Thanks,<P>Mark

[Guest]

Here's what's going on...<P>On my '67's throttle linkage there's a microswitch which allows the converter to go to "hi-stall" at idle, so the engine runs a little smoother at the stoplight...it's not being dragged down by the "low-stall" mode meant for casual driving.<P>So, at a stop, at idle, in gear...the converter's VP solenoid is energized. As soon as you apply a little throttle, the solenoid is de-energized so that the converter can return to low stall mode for normal driving (that's why you hear a 'click' after moving the pedal a bit...the VP solenoid is closing).<P>At about 2/3 (or is it 3/4?) throttle, the electric switch next to the carb energizes the VP solenoid into "hi-stall" again, to give the best acceleration.<P>At approx 3/4 (or is it 2/3?) throttle, the detent solenoid is energized to downshift the tranny for better acceleration, or passing.<P>Hope that clears it up! <P>As far as getting the solenoids to energize at the right throttle angles, the arm sticking out of the electric switch (the one attached to the carb linkage) is adjustable, so you can make minor changes by changing the arm's length.<P>Good luck,<P>Devon<P>P.S. The 'hi-stall at idle' feature sure does a good job of taming wild camshafts <p>[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: 462 Wildcat ]

[Guest]

Mark,<BR> Glad to hear you are making progress in resolving your problem. Devon gave you some great information there, I learned a few things from it. My 70 chassis manual describes an initial adjustment for the detent switch at the gas pedal. You are supposed to push the switch plunger at the bottom towards the firewall. This takes some effort, but the plunger will move all the way up with a snap. Then you floor the pedal and this makes the adjustment. If you have a chassis manual the section on transmission has the procedure with a picture.<BR> I have a 70 GS with a 1967 "BT" switch pitch ST-400. When I bought the car the previous owner had a simple 2 position switch controlling the converter. The converter is normally in low stall, apply 12 volts you get high stall. I bought a switch pitch controller box from Poston. It has a digital timer adjustable from 0-12 seconds in increments of .1 seconds. It hooks to the soplight switch so the trans is in high stall idling in gear. When you release the brake the trans will go back to low stall after the amount of seconds dialed in to the timer. I adjust it for my 60 foot time at the track.(about 2 sec on street tires) It works great, but has no provision for going to high stall under heavy accelleration. I think Buick's system is much better. I have to do it manually when I get on it on the street.( the box also has a manual switch for stall speed) Hope it works out for you.<BR> Larry

[Guest 1965cat]

Here's the latest.... I tried to adjust the linkage at the carb for the kickdown and snapped the Eye-bolt(Duhh!)... I have checked every hardware store and the internet for a 10/32 eye-bolt with no luck(10/24 seems to be the standard).. I assume I need to look in hemmings or a junk yard (I will try there next)...<P>Good News!! I fixed the Speedometer problem... Raised the rear wheels, re-insereted the plastic gear in the tranny and Wham!! Works like charm!! Thank you for the help!!!<P>I am going to search for a new Eye-bolt and when I find one, I will try your suggestions and post the results.<P>Thanks,<P>Mark

[YellowLark]

Had the same problem with finding a replacement eye bolt when I had my ST300 trans and its switches. Bought an eye bolt about the needed size with wrong threads and used a die of the right thread size to re-thread it. Worked fine.<p>[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: YellowLark ]

[Guest]

Did the same thing...an aftermarket intake manifold meant I needed a longer rod, so I started from scratch & used a die to get the correct threads.<P>Devon