Replacing King Pins on a 1953 Buick Skylark

[Guest mdwhit]

I have had the Bushings fitted in the Knuckle Supports and sized to the King Pins. I am now ready to assemble the King Pins to the Steering Knuckles and Knuckle Supports. Since these were disassembled about 10 years, I am no longer sure how to reassemble the King Pins using the Bearings and Shims. This is where I need help, please.

My first question has to do with the direction of the bearing: I think the open part (where the race is exposed should face downward. This way the race itself, will rest on the Knuckle Support Boss. Looking at the Bearings I had removed, I can see circular marks on the enclosed side of the bearing that seem to match circular marks on the Steering Knuckle lower Boss (so this would agree with my thinking). I don’t know if the grooves came from the factory on the lower Boss like this, or somehow wore this way. If they came from the factory like this, what are the grooves for?

My second problem has to do with the Shims. If I am reading the Buick manual correctly, the Shims go between the Steering Knuckle and the Knuckle Support at the top. My problem though, has to do with obtaining the .003” clearance that the manual states that I need. My King Pin rebuilding kit contains 4 Shims, and depending on what area of the Shim that you put the micrometer on) the thickness range is .009” - .010. The original Shims that came out of the car have a thickness between .0035 - .0045.

When I put a Shim in one of the assemblies though, I am unable to measure the clearance. I have tried setting up a “run-out” type dial gauge, but could not set it up well enough to get a good measurement. I guess I just don’t have the right “clamps” or fixtures to properly hold the dial gauge. I even tried to use a Feeler gauge, but there was just too much of a variance from one side to side to the other side.

Long story short (or shorter), I have tried different combinations of shims (both old and new) and have become very frustrated. With no Shims the assemblies really “feel” too loose. I wound up using one of the new Shims on one assembly, and 2 of the old Shims on the other assembly. The clearance is at “0” with this setup. In other words, setting the assemblies in a vice, I am not able to “feel” any “play”. However, although there is no “binding”, there is a very small amount of “tightness in one area for each assembly. I am thinking that the “0” clearance is probably okay, but that very small tightness does concern me a little bit. I am worried that the very slight “tightness” may “chew” up the Shims (particularly the old thinner Shims that I used (.0035 - .0045” thickness). When I disassembled one of the assemblies, it did have a Shim that was chewed up, but that was probably due to a worn King Pin. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me!

Michael Whitley

[Guest mdwhit]

I have had the Bushings fitted in the Knuckle Supports and sized to the King Pins. I am now ready to assemble the King Pins to the Steering Knuckles and Knuckle Supports. Since these were disassembled about 10 years, I am no longer sure how to reassemble the King Pins using the Bearings and Shims. This is where I need help, please.

My first question has to do with the direction of the bearing: I think the open part (where the race is exposed should face downward. This way the race itself, will rest on the Knuckle Support Boss. Looking at the Bearings I had removed, I can see circular marks on the enclosed side of the bearing that seem to match circular marks on the Steering Knuckle lower Boss (so this would agree with my thinking). I don’t know if the grooves came from the factory on the lower Boss like this, or somehow wore this way. If they came from the factory like this, what are the grooves for?

My second problem has to do with the Shims. If I am reading the Buick manual correctly, the Shims go between the Steering Knuckle and the Knuckle Support at the top. My problem though, has to do with obtaining the .003” clearance that the manual states that I need. My King Pin rebuilding kit contains 4 Shims, and depending on what area of the Shim that you put the micrometer on) the thickness range is .009” - .010. The original Shims that came out of the car have a thickness between .0035 - .0045.

When I put a Shim in one of the assemblies though, I am unable to measure the clearance. I have tried setting up a “run-out” type dial gauge, but could not set it up well enough to get a good measurement. I guess I just don’t have the right “clamps” or fixtures to properly hold the dial gauge. I even tried to use a Feeler gauge, but there was just too much of a variance from one side to side to the other side.

Long story short (or shorter), I have tried different combinations of shims (both old and new) and have become very frustrated. With no Shims the assemblies really “feel” too loose. I wound up using one of the new Shims on one assembly, and 2 of the old Shims on the other assembly. The clearance is at “0” with this setup. In other words, setting the assemblies in a vice, I am not able to “feel” any “play”. However, although there is no “binding”, there is a very small amount of “tightness in one area for each assembly. I am thinking that the “0” clearance is probably okay, but that very small tightness does concern me a little bit. I am worried that the very slight “tightness” may “chew” up the Shims (particularly the old thinner Shims that I used (.0035 - .0045” thickness). When I disassembled one of the assemblies, it did have a Shim that was chewed up, but that was probably due to a worn King Pin. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me!

Michael Whitley

Well, gosh, I have had 74 readers in 3 days to this (my) post, but no suggestions to solve my problem. Is my description unclear, or too "muddled"? If so, I will try to clarify. Please, I in no way, want to sound offensive, or ungrateful to be able to use this forum. I'm just desperate for some opinions. Can anyone help?

[1953mack]

. . . . . I have had the Bushings fitted in the Knuckle Supports (The bushings should be installed and fitted in the knuckles, not the knuckle supports.) and sized to the King Pins. I am now ready to assemble the King Pins to the Steering Knuckles and Knuckle Supports. Since these were disassembled about 10 years, I am no longer sure how to reassemble the King Pins using the Bearings and Shims. This is where I need help, please.

My first question has to do with the direction of the bearing: I think the open part (where the race is exposed should face downward.) (correct assumption) This way the race itself, will rest on the Knuckle Support Boss. Looking at the Bearings I had removed, I can see circular marks on the enclosed side of the bearing that seem to match circular marks on the Steering Knuckle lower Boss (so this would agree with my thinking). I don’t know if the grooves came from the factory on the lower Boss like this, or somehow wore this way. If they came from the factory like this, what are the grooves for?

My second problem has to do with the Shims. If I am reading the Buick manual correctly, the Shims go between the Steering Knuckle and the Knuckle Support at the top. (correct assumption) My problem though, has to do with obtaining the .003” clearance that the manual states that I need. My King Pin rebuilding kit contains 4 Shims, and depending on what area of the Shim that you put the micrometer on) the thickness range is .009” - .010. The original Shims that came out of the car have a thickness between .0035 - .0045. (A BUICK MASTER CHASSIS PARTS BOOK lists the original shim as Group #6.214, Part #185004, As Required, .005" thick.)

When I put a Shim in one of the assemblies though, I am unable to measure the clearance. I have tried setting up a “run-out” type dial gauge, but could not set it up well enough to get a good measurement. I guess I just don’t have the right “clamps” or fixtures to properly hold the dial gauge. I even tried to use a Feeler gauge, but there was just too much of a variance from one side to side to the other side.

Long story short (or shorter), I have tried different combinations of shims (both old and new) and have become very frustrated. With no Shims the assemblies really “feel” too loose. I wound up using one of the new Shims on one assembly, and 2 of the old Shims on the other assembly. The clearance is at “0” with this setup. In other words, setting the assemblies in a vice, I am not able to “feel” any “play”. However, although there is no “binding”, there is a very small amount of “tightness in one area for each assembly. I am thinking that the “0” clearance is probably okay, but that very small tightness does concern me a little bit. I am worried that the very slight “tightness” may “chew” up the Shims (particularly the old thinner Shims that I used (.0035 - .0045” thickness). When I disassembled one of the assemblies, it did have a Shim that was chewed up, but that was probably due to a worn King Pin. Any thoughts? (Sounds to me like you have a slight uneven, non-parallel, wear in either the surface of the knuckle, knuckle support, or a variance in the bearing flatness; an item that a good machine shop should be able to correct.)

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me!

Michael Whitley . . . . .

See my comments in red. Have you compared the height and wear of the old bearing versus the new bearing? I personally would not favor a "0" clearance. Just my $.02 worth.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

[Bhigdog]

I'll offer my opinion. Use the witness marks to guide the direction of the bearing. That seems to indicate open side down. That keeps water from pooling and draining down into the bearing. As for play, shim for near 0 play with no drag. I would rather see slight play than binding. If you are a bit retentive you can find your slight binding point with Prussion blue or a bit of soot from a candle and stone or file the high point down. Again my opinion, a few thousands play is no big deal. It's not like we're talking precision bearing clearances here.

As an aside I'll offer one last opinion. Many times a question is asked or help solicited with a problem by a relatively new poster. Sometimes much time is spent offering help and the original poster is never heard from again. No thanks offered or results given. Some of the folks who hang here are getting kind of burned out wasting their time helping with info.

Let us know how you made out...................Bob

Edited August 25, 2012 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Guest mdwhit]

See my comments in red. Have you compared the height and wear of the old bearing versus the new bearing? I personally would not favor a "0" clearance. Just my $.02 worth.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Al,

Thank you for replying. To reply to your comments: First, I am probably mixing the Knuckle & Knuckle support names, but the bushings are where they should be. Second, thanks for the confirmation on the direction of the bearings and also which end the shims are placed (interesting that the shims I got with the King Pin kit are so thick). Third, you are confirming what I suspected, in that there is some unevenness in wear on the knuckle, the knuckle support or even the new bearings (guess I needed someone to tell me that the areas need to be flat). I think I will get some Prussian Blue as suggested by Bob (post below) and try to find out where the high points are. Ultimately, I will probably wind up taking them to a good machine shop to get the areas flat. . Oh, also as you suggested, I will compare the new bearings to the old ones.

I really do appreciate your comments – thanks!

Michael

[Guest mdwhit]

I'll offer my opinion. Use the witness marks to guide the direction of the bearing. That seems to indicate open side down. That keeps water from pooling and draining down into the bearing. As for play, shim for near 0 play with no drag. I would rather see slight play than binding. If you are a bit retentive you can find your slight binding point with Prussion blue or a bit of soot from a candle and stone or file the high point down. Again my opinion, a few thousands play is no big deal. It's not like we're talking precision bearing clearances here.

As an aside I'll offer one last opinion. Many times a question is asked or help solicited with a problem by a relatively new poster. Sometimes much time is spent offering help and the original poster is never heard from again. No thanks offered or results given. Some of the folks who hang here are getting kind of burned out wasting their time helping with info.

Let us know how you made out...................Bob

Bob,

Thank you for your input. The confirmation on the bearing position and particularly the use of Prussian Blue to find the high spots is very helpful. I would have never thought of the Prussian Blue. This will tell me what/where my problems are. If there is a high spot that I think I can remove (without making things even worse), I will give it a try. Otherwise, I will take them to a good machine shop that I know of. Your comments of getting them close to zero (but with no binding), and that a few thousands is no big deal, is something I need to hear. I do know that I tend to get too “picky” at times.

I can really appreciate your comments about some folks on the forum getting burned out. I realize that it takes time and effort, as well as research at times, in order to help someone. I just want you and Al (above post) to know that I really do appreciate your efforts. I will let you know how I make out on this. Thanks again!

Michael

[Guest mdwhit]

Well, got the problem of King Pin clearance resolved. I gave up on trying to find Prussian Blue. I actually found an equivalent called DyKem, but it had to be ordered, so I decided to use a marking pen to see if I could find any high spots. Found some high spots on the Knuckle Supports, and used a flat file to even things out. So I am happy that I have approx. .003 clearance, and more importantly, no binding. Thanks Bob and Al for getting me moving on this!

I have 2 other questions if anyone would be kind enough to comment:

1) The Pin (or wedge) that goes through the Steering Knuckle Support to hold the King Pin in place is really a tight fit. They are “peened” on one side so I know to go in from the other side. The Pins move easily, even through the flat on the Kin Pin, but then only a little further. I have manage to drive them in (on both left & right side), but only so far. Both Pins protrude approx. 1/4” out from the Knuckle Support. I would think they should be flush. I realize that a tight fit is important (least I lose some parts as I roll down the street), but man, these are tight. I have hit the pins pretty hard and was afraid to use much more force, lest I damage the King Pins or Bushings. I wouldn’t thing that they are supposed to be pressed in, but…

2) The Plugs that are staked on the top & bottom of the King Pin are really loose. I have not attempted to stake them yet, and I was wondering if I should attempt to flatten the plugs a little before I do stake them. The Plugs are domed (or concave). My concern is that the ends of the Knuckle Supports will take a lot in terms of staking in order to hold the Plugs securely.

Thanks in advance if anyone cares to comment,

Michael

[jvelde]

Michael, when I did this job a while back the instructions I had said to use a punch on the top of the domed dust cover to spread it once in place. I guess if it is really loose you could flatten it a little first, then insert and finish with a punch.

Good Luck.

[Guest mdwhit]

Michael, when I did this job a while back the instructions I had said to use a punch on the top of the domed dust cover to spread it once in place. I guess if it is really loose you could flatten it a little first, then insert and finish with a punch.

Good Luck.

John, thanks for the advice. I am going to try using a punch on top of the domed dust cover. I'll see if that makes the dust cover tighter.

Could you possible comment on whether you were able to drive the pin (that holds the King Pin in place) flush to the Knuckle Support? For me, the pins went in easy enough, even over the flat machined area on the King Pin, but then they abruptly stopped. I have whacked them fairly hard with a hammer, but they still protrude able 1/4". I am afraid to hit them any harder, as I do not want to damage the King Pins or Bushings. If I remember correctly, the old pins were flush to the Knuckle Support. I no longer have them to compare though.

Thanks again for the advice on using a punch on the domed part of the dust cover!

Michael

[jvelde]

One of mine sticks out about a 1/4" as well. I also hit the pin pretty hard to the point it started spreading, so I figured that one wasn't going anywhere without being drilled out. I have checked it several times and so far after 600+ miles it doesn't seem to be doing anything weird.

[Guest mdwhit]

Thanks, John. I think I will leave the pins on my as they are too. I will let you know how the dust cover fitment works out (after I use a punch on the center dome area). - Michael

[Bhigdog]

The pins are a wedge fit. Being not flush is normal. The domed cover is a loose fit in the counter-bore until it is smacked with the peen end of a ball peen hammer. Staking is usually not necessary but won't hurt. If your aim with the hammer is iffy, hold the peen in the center and smack it smartly with a brass or copper hammer. NEVER hit a hammer with another HARD hammer..............Bob

[buick5563]

Also, never hit your hand with a HARD hammer.

[buick5563]

Sorry.

Yes, everything Bob stated is great advice.

[Guest mdwhit]

Thanks guys for your comments and answers to my questions. I really appreciate the time it takes to do this. I am certainly learning a lot about King Pin installation!

John – I peened the Dust covers, and the looseness seems to be gone. Thanks for your help

Mike – I have already hit my hand (actually my fingers) with a hammer a few times in life, so I know that hitting a hand must really hurt! Thank you for the levity though!

Bob – Thanks for reminding me that the pins are a wedge fit, and thus are not are meant to go in all the way. Good reminder about hitting a hammer with a hammer. Although I had heard that long ago, I am not sure that I would have remembered it this time around. Also, thanks for the input on staking. I had it in my head that it was really important to stake them.

Folks, if you can just bear with me on 1 more kind of question/comment, I promise it’s the last on these darn King Pins… The machine shop that had fitted the bushing into the Knuckle Supports, pressed them all the way to the edge of the inner boss, and then put a small touch of weld on the edge of each bushing and boss edge. He made sure that the area was flat after he did this, but I though it was strange since the bushings are a press fit. I had the bushing pressed in quite a while back, and did not notice that he had done this until I just started assembly of them.

Because he pressed the busing that far in, I have approx. ¼” of extra space between the upper end of the bushings and the top where the dust cover goes. So I do not see how I could possibly stake the dust covers anyway. Since the top of the bushing is even with the top of the King Pin though, there will be no extra space for grease to collect (between the King Pin and the top of the busing). I don’t think that will matter, unless some of the grease is suppose to “wick” down into the King Pin. Any comments?

Michael

[Bhigdog]

Shouldn't matter for greasing if he has the grease holes lined up correctly. Welding the bushing is bizarre, hope you never need to change them...................Bob

[Guest mdwhit]

Shouldn't matter for greasing if he has the grease holes lined up correctly. Welding the bushing is bizarre, hope you never need to change them...................Bob

Thanks for the reply, Bob. I think "bizarre" is probably a good word. The guy that used to own that machine shop came highly recommended, and had even did some work for me before. When I went back to the shop for this job though, and found out the owner had retired...well, I wish I would have quickly turned around and left! The grease holes do line up correctly though, so I'll worry no more! Thanks again, Michael