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GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK, YEAR OF BUILD, MODEL, AND CARRING CAPACITY;


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HI ALL,

I'M DOWN IN AUSTRALIA,IN THE STATE OF VICTORIA , LIVING ON THE FAMILY FARM, WHICH HAS BEEN OWNED BY MY FAMILY FOR 4 GENERATIONS.

ON THIS FARM WE HAVE 2 OLD TRUCKS, BOTH OF WHICH HAVE FOUR-WHEEL TRAILERS, AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SHEDED, AND WORKED UP UNTIL RECENTLY, BOTH ARE COMPLETELY ORIGINAL AND RUNNING AND DON'T REQUIRE ANY RESTORATION WORK.

MY QUESTION IS ABOUT THE GRAHAM BROTHERS TRUCK, 6 Cyl ENGINE NUMBER M 124119, 4-SPEED GEARBOX, 4-WHEEL HYDRAULIC BRAKES, CHASSIS NUMBER 203491, 140 INCH WHEEL BASE, WITH NICKEL PLATE RADIATOR SURROUND, GRAHAM BROTHERS DETROIT BADGE, GRAHAM BROTHERS HUB CAPS AND GRAHAM BROTHERS PLATE ON THE CROSS MEMBER BACK OF THE CHASSIS, STEWART CARBY, TWO AND A HALF INCH SPRINGS, 11 LEAVES FRONT AND BACK, 7.00 x 20 INCH SINGLE TYRES, GRAHAM BROTHERS GOVENOR ON THE DASH.

QUESTION; WHAT YEAR, WHAT MODEL, AND WHAT SIZE.

ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED, BILL RONALD.

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HI ALL,

I AM STILL LOOKING FOR SOME AMERICAN TECHNICAL IMPUT TO MY QUESTION, THIS INFORMATION IS ONLY AVAILABLE IN THE U.S.A. HOPFULLY SOMEONE HAS THE ANSWERS I NEED.

GRAHAM BROTHERS AND THE DODGE BROTHERS, FORMED ONE OF THE GREATEST AUTOMOBILE PARTNERSHIPS THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN, FOR YOUR INTEREST I NOW HAVE PHOTO'S OF MY TRUCK UP, PLEASE GO TO THE DODGE- DODGE BROTHERS SITE TO VIEW THEM.

ANY HELP IN RESOLVING MY QUEST FOR INFORMATION IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA

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G'day Bill, I think it might be a 28 with that M prefix engine as in 28 Dodge cars but I can't locate my truck books. (must have loaned them).

I also believe that when Chrysler took over Dodge Brothers they removed the Graham Brothers name so as not to compete with Dodge Brothers.

28 was also the first year of 6 cyl. Dodges so G.B would have them too.

Hope this is of some use and if I find my books I will offer some more.

Regards Graham (Adelaide)

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Bill: My apologies for my compatriots apparent lack of interest in offshore problems...Dodge truck people should've answered by now.

I don't follow Dodge, but can maybe bracket you in a bit...

Mroz's truck book says a majority interest in Graham Bros was purchased by Dodge in 1920 or so, that Dodge built them with Dodge 4cyl engines; that Chrysler bought Dodge in 1927 (and that also in 1927 Dodge had bought total interest in Graham bros)...

Also in 1927 "...1/4, 1/2, 2 and 21/2 Ton models were added, some with 60HP 6cyl engines ...designed by Dodge but built by Continental..." (that makes then Dodge engines, not Cont'ls)

Also "...Graham trucks became Dodge Bros in 1929..."

A couple old parts catalogs show Graham Bros first 6cyl engine in 1928.

Another shows:

1928 6cyl 31/4x41/2..."Bus 2Ton"...(a Dodge Senior engine);

a 1929 6cyl 33/8x41/2...2, 21/2, 3Ton...(another Dodge Senior engine)

another 1929 6cyl 33/8x37/8...1/2, 3/4, 11/4, 11/2Ton...(Dodge Victory engine);

then it lists a couple Cont'l engines, one in a gas-electric, one unidentified as to model or year, and

finally another?? 6cyl (Dodge Senior motor) in models JD,JE,YD and YE (which could be one listed above).

Looks like Graham Bros model designations were two letters: DD, SD, YD etc; see anything like that??

Tad's Truck Spotters guide sez "Aug 1927 2Ton gets 6cyl, Lockheed hyd brakes....Sept 27, 1/2 ton gets hyd brakes, 4-speed...

Looks like "27" had 2-piece windscreen; Aug and Sept 27 changed to one-piece windscreen. Tad shows Sept 27 as "271/2", not 28.

He also notes "...starting Jan 29, all Dodge Bros trucks sold with Dodge Bros or Fargo name..." So looks like you down to either 27 or 28.

I may have some spec lists upstairs; will check and advise. With sympathy, Bud

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HI ALL,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE RECENT INFORMATION, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE, OBVIOUSLY MY TRUCK WAS ONE OF THE LAST, TO BE BADGED GRAHAM BROTHERS, BUT ACTUALLY FULLY BUILT BY DODGE, PRIOR TO , OR AROUND THE TIME CHRYSLER PURCHASED THE COMPANY.

I MUST ADMIT I HAD THOUGHT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MEMBERS OF THE FORUM WHO KNEW EVERYTHING THERE WAS TO KNOW ABOUT THE GRAHAM BROTHERS COMPANY, AND WHO COULD HAVE TOLD ME, ON WHAT DAY IT WAS BUILT AND THE NAME OF THE WORKMAN WHO FINISHED IT.

I NOW KNOW, MY TRUCK HAS THE DODGE VICTORY SIX ENGINE, AND THE HEAVY DUTY FOUR SPEED GEARBOX, WITH EXTERNAL TYRE PUMP ATTACHED, I HAVE MANAGED TO FIND AN ORIGINAL, TWO PIECE RADIATOR NAME PLATE, ATTACHED TO THE RADIATOR FRONT,

GRAHAM

BROTHERS

AND I HAVE FOUND A SMALL BUILD PLATE THE SAYS

BUILT BY

GRAHAM BROTHERS

DETROIT

I INTEND TO SUBMIT PHOTO'S, WHEN I CAN GET TO THE TRUCK IN ABOUT 2 OR 3 MONTHS, IN THE MEAN TIME, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT.

REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

Bill: My apologies for my compatriots apparent lack of interest in offshore problems...Dodge truck people should've answered by now.

I don't follow Dodge, but can maybe bracket you in a bit...

Mroz's truck book says a majority interest in Graham Bros was purchased by Dodge in 1920 or so, that Dodge built them with Dodge 4cyl engines; that Chrysler bought Dodge in 1927 (and that also in 1927 Dodge had bought total interest in Graham bros)...

Also in 1927 "...1/4, 1/2, 2 and 21/2 Ton models were added, some with 60HP 6cyl engines ...designed by Dodge but built by Continental..." (that makes then Dodge engines, not Cont'ls)

Also "...Graham trucks became Dodge Bros in 1929..."

A couple old parts catalogs show Graham Bros first 6cyl engine in 1928.

Another shows:

1928 6cyl 31/4x41/2..."Bus 2Ton"...(a Dodge Senior engine);

a 1929 6cyl 33/8x41/2...2, 21/2, 3Ton...(another Dodge Senior engine)

another 1929 6cyl 33/8x37/8...1/2, 3/4, 11/4, 11/2Ton...(Dodge Victory engine);

then it lists a couple Cont'l engines, one in a gas-electric, one unidentified as to model or year, and

finally another?? 6cyl (Dodge Senior motor) in models JD,JE,YD and YE (which could be one listed above).

Looks like Graham Bros model designations were two letters: DD, SD, YD etc; see anything like that??

Tad's Truck Spotters guide sez "Aug 1927 2Ton gets 6cyl, Lockheed hyd brakes....Sept 27, 1/2 ton gets hyd brakes, 4-speed...

Looks like "27" had 2-piece windscreen; Aug and Sept 27 changed to one-piece windscreen. Tad shows Sept 27 as "271/2", not 28.

He also notes "...starting Jan 29, all Dodge Bros trucks sold with Dodge Bros or Fargo name..." So looks like you down to either 27 or 28.

I may have some spec lists upstairs; will check and advise. With sympathy, Bud

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Bill: Only found one list of truck specs, in the Jan 1927 issue, and they're not very helpful--three models were listed, all three shown as model "G" (obviously incorrect):

1Ton--4cyl 37/8x41/2--126" WB--tires 30x5 ft and rear;

11/2Ton--same eng--137WB--tires 32x6 ft and rear;

2Ton--same eng--137WB--tires 32x6 front, 34x7 rear. Didn't specify if rears single or dual. All three showed spiral bevel rear axle.

One thing was clear, though: the Jan and May 1927 Graham Bros ads showed a 2-piece windscreen, while the Jan, Feb and July 28 ads showed a one-piece.

Your 700x20s were almost certainly added later.

Info is from the American Exporter magazine, an exporter trade magazine. I have the Jan-June 1927, and all of 1928, altho it's possible I have Jul-Dec 27 out misfiled somewhere.

An annual publication : Dyke's Automobile Encyclopedia, would have more specs, but a set is out of my price range. Cheers, as they say. Bud

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HI BUD,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION, WHICH IS VERY HELPFUL, I HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS, AND I BELIEVE YOUR OLD PARTS CATALOG, 1929 , WHICH LISTS THE 6 CYLINDER, 1- 1/4 TON MODEL WITH THE DODGE VICTOTY SIX ENGINE, COULD BE MY TRUCK, WHICH I NOW THINK IS A MODEL ( I E ) AND A SERIES E, 140 INCH WHEELBASE BUILT IN LATE 1929 IN DETROIT.

KIND REGARDS BILL in AUSTRALIA.

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Bill,

My 1933 Red Book (Nat'l. Used Car Market Report) gives the starting Serial Numbers for 1929 E Series Dodge Six trucks (incl'g. IE) as E133097 and up. The numbers for 1930 (140" whb Six) start at 218711, so if they're a continuation from 1929, it looks like your S/N of 203491 indeed falls in to 1929 production.

There's a note in the listing, "On Jan. 1, 1929, the name of Graham Bros. commercial cars was changed to Dodge Brothers."

TG

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HI TG,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INFORMATION, WHICH CONFIRMS MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY, THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS AND A GREAT BREAK THROUGH FOR ME TO FINALLY GET THE BUILD YEAR CORRECT.

WHAT A GREAT ASSET THIS FORUM IS, IN HELPING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, AGAIN A BIG THANK YOU TO, TG AND OTHERS FOR THIS ASSISTANCE.

WHAT ABOUT THE ENGINE NUMBER, CAN ANYBODY SHED ANY LIGHT ON IT, AS TO THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE.

REGARDS BILL.

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