Fred Zwicker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I hear it both ways. I always refer to a "Body Off" when we remove the body from the frame, based on the theory that we are lifting the body off the frame. Others call it "Frame Off". What is your preference?Pictures (before and after) show our recent "Body Off" restoration of my 1954 Buick Riviera 2dr HT, which scored a perfect 400 score (out of 400 points) at the recent Buick Nationals in Charlotte this year. We didn't take the frame off the body, but we did take the body off the frame - this is the way that I always word this. I often hear auction companies and others use the term "Frame Off" and cannot figure out why.Fred Edited July 23, 2012 by Fred Zwicker (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coley Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Body off is the only one that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Body off. I really admired your car at the Nationals, Fred. Job well done. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Zwicker Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Many friends from the 1954 Buick Forum all contributed to this restoration. I got plenty of advice and help from many, but especially from Mr. Earl. Steve (i motors) even donated a parts car which really helped. Thanks everyone!Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think "off frame" makes more sense than anything else. We all say "body on frame", don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old48Truck Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 "Frame off" makes sense when you're restoring a painting. I first heard "frame off," and that was the only term I heard for many years, so I continue to use the term, even though I know "off frame" or "body off" make more sense. Habit, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Usually when you start to take a car apart to restore it, you remove the body from the frame as the frame rests on the wheels. Ever since I was a kid at 9 years old or so (back in '61) I have always heard the term as "body off" restoration. It has only been the last 15 or 20 years that I have heard the term "frame off" which perplexes me. Just another new way to say it was totally taken down to it's minimum parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Once these misnomers have taken hold, it's nearly impossible to change them back. The one that grates on my ears, the worst, is wheels being called rims. On this very forum, just last week, someone was looking for some wire "rims". I wanted to ask what the spokes were made from, but I bit my tongue.Oh yeah, and every old car, from 1940 back, is a "Gangster Car". I often wonder what bankers, grocers, family men and the like, drove back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarrsCars Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 How about "motor mounts" when we know that an engine is in our cars unless they are electric, then it's rightly a motor. Or "hub cap" meaning wheel covers, tho I let that one slide since it's been in use for so long.This doesn't really happen among gearheads but I have so many friends who attempt to car talk with me and they use "wheels" to mean everything from the actual wheels, to tires, to the whole setup. When I was asked "Why did you need another alignment, were your wheels wearing down?" I wanted to reply, "No, but my patience is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweepspear Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think a lot of this depends on the region you are from. Just like soda, pop, or coke.I grew up hearing "frame off". For me the term "body off" is more recent.Though, I agree body off is more correct. Or "hub cap" meaning wheel covers, tho I let that one slide since it's been in use for so long."But, they technically are different.A hub cap just covers the hub area of the wheel.A wheel cover covers the entire wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 How about "motor mounts" when we know that an engine is in our cars unless they are electric, then it's rightly a motor.Well, one of the most famous and high-volume engine builders called themselves Continental Motors, but never produced an electric motor, yet, in 1929 created the Continental Aircraft Engine Company.Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest South_paw Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Fred,You didn't do a frame off or a body off. You did a rotisserie restoration. Problem solved ! :p:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 When I did my 41 Limited, I recall, I LIFTED THE BODY UP AND AWAY FROM THE FRAME. Then I was able to say, THE FRAME IS OFF. lol, I don't know whether I will GO DOWNTOWN TONIGHT, OR UPTOWN, I know it won't make that much difference. fun, FUN IS GOOD!Dale in Indy I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I actually took the frame off the body by putting the jack stands under the body and the two jacks on each end of the frame....removed all the bolts then lowered the frame.Is that a frame off????lol, I enjoyed marveling at your "Perfect" example of a 54 Fred. I also enjoyed meeting you. I will soon be posting the pics taken in our engine bay thread for future reference for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 How about "motor mounts" when we know that an engine is in our cars unless they are electric, then it's rightly a motor."This motor/engine thing has been beat to death for ever. Here is what the Oxford dictionary has to say about the matter (emphasis mine).Definition of motor[h=3]noun[/h] 1a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for another device with moving parts:American Motors, Ford Motor Company, General Motors, etc. might agree. Now I must go down to the shop and work on my enginecycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 When I did my 41 Limited, I recall, I LIFTED THE BODY UP AND AWAY FROM THE FRAME. Then I was able to say, THE BODY IS OFF THE FRAME. lol, Fixed That For You (FTFY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Tomato.......Tomato...........Lets call the whole thing off. (With apologies to George Gershwin)..................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Thanks, but we are discussing, FRAME OFF, or BODY OFF. I was just saying once I lifted the body OFF, THEN I COULD SAY, FRAME OFF......Fun time,Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 They say the English language is the hardest to learn................:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ok next debate....If you keep on traveling east, when will you reach the east? And what will lie east of you then?I tell ya, the depths we reach on debating inane topics on these forums baffles me, even worst I actively and happily participate.Pie anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcr Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Years ago, "Frame Up" restoration was the term most oft used. "Body Off" restoration came somewhat later, then the two seemed to get tangled and confused sometime perhaps in the eighties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Years ago, "Frame Up" restoration was the term most oft used. "Body Off" restoration came somewhat later, then the two seemed to get tangled and confused sometime perhaps in the eighties.I guess that since I had to dig my 1931 Dodge engine out of the ground, mine will be considered a "from the ground up" restoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I love it when you hear a guy say; "I've just finished a body off on this car" apparently he didn't realize he has a uni-body car! Even worse is the auction TV experts with the same line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 They need to say, SUSPENSION, and DRIVE TRAIN REMOVED, plus EVERY NUT, BOLT, AND BRACKET.Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think a lot of this depends on the region you are from. Just like soda, pop, or coke.I grew up hearing "frame off". For me the term "body off" is more recent.Though, I agree body off is more correct.But, they technically are different.A hub cap just covers the hub area of the wheel.A wheel cover covers the entire wheel. There are center caps, hub caps, Trim rings, wheel covers ( that leave leave a small portion of the rim part of the wheel exposed - like the one you posted of the Buick ), Full wheel covers ( that covers the entire wheel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 this is why i haven't done a body off frame up or off or whatever restoration. at least that is my excuse now. besides... i'm just not into it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I guess that since I had to dig my 1931 Dodge engine out of the ground, mine will be considered a "from the ground up" restoration?Dude, if you had simply flipped your car over to start disassembly you would have to take the "frame off" the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ok next debate....If you keep on traveling east, when will you reach the east? And what will lie east of you then?FYI, the International dateline is what determines east from west. Alaska is the easternmost, westernmost and northernmost state in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 For the longest time, all I heard was "Frame Off Restoration" or "Ground Up Restoration" when referring to restoring a car inside & out, top to bottom..Hey, another technical term for a restoration, "Inside & Out, Top to Bottom"...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) stealthbob that is a good oneIf you keep on traveling east, when will you reach the east? And what will lie east of you then?However remember east is a direction not a destination, therefor you can NOT reach east, you can only travel east, and continuously do so and never stop, east will always be east of you and you will continue to travel east until you decide to stop traveling east, and at that point east will still be east of you. Travel on...Oh yeah, and if you guys have nothing else to do and want to figure out if it is a frame off or body off, or ground up, inside out, or outside in, I have a 1930 Chevrolet universal that needs all and any of these, and you ALL are welcome to come by and debate while we all work and knock this one out . . . Edited July 24, 2012 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 When doing a frame up restoration do you ignore the suspension, wheels, etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 This thread illustrates poor use of specific terms and it has become rampant. The worst are the use of "restoration" by people who should know better (BJ auctions are the worst!) A '34 Terraplane with a Hemi is NOT a restoration! Others mislabel parts as NOS, NORS (NORS is a BS marketing moniker, new old REPRODUCTION stock part, HUH?), reproduction, replacement are all technical terms meant to accurately describe the part. Some things don't really matter that much but the difference between a true NOS part and a repop part are miles apart.IMNSHO, Body off resto is far more detailed and complete than body on which omits much of what's hidden below because of different considerations. Frame up resto is the same as frame off, It is a resto that includes the frame and it's components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 stealthbob that is a good oneHowever remember east is a direction not a destination, therefor you can NOT reach east, you can only travel east, and continuously do so and never stop, east will always be east of you and you will continue to travel east until you decide to stop traveling east, and at that point east will still be east of you. Travel on...Kinda my point, there is NO end in this "Frame off" or any other abuse of car lexicon debate. It seems to me its a destination that doesn't exist?We keep heading East but when do we actually get there, and how do we know it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 As I said on another post, how about "line bore" vs "align bore"? I believe line bore is correct but align bore sounds better in a sales pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Guy Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I guess that since I had to dig my 1931 Dodge engine out of the ground, mine will be considered a "from the ground up" restoration?The term "ground up" just cracks me up. When I was a little guy I thought is was GRIND UP and all I could imagine was something like a giant meat grinder full of car parts that would, well,...grind them up before the restoration could start. Even as a kid I could never understand why anyone would want to do that. I still remember when I realized it meant restoration from the ground up. The owner (nicely) corrected me after I asked him if he had done a grind up restoration. I can laugh about it now, but was awfully embarassed at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 We keep heading East but when do we actually get there, and how do we know it? And, if you're standing at the North Pole, no matter which way you walk, you'll be going east Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 And, if you're standing at the North Pole, no matter which way you walk, you'll be going eastYou would be going south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Old Car Guy Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Years ago, "Frame Up" restoration was the term most oft used. "Body Off" restoration came somewhat later, then the two seemed to get tangled and confused sometime perhaps in the eighties.I agree with you - "Frame Up" restoration is the best description."Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes - that way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.":) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Geeze, Fred, you know how to start something don't you.Congrats on the perfect restoration. Glad I could be a part of it. I assume 400/400 points means that it must be perfect, right? (I bet that question won't go unanswered)Body off, frame off, jargon smargon, just add a couple of words and say "they 'took the body off the frame' and spent 3 times what the thing will ever be worth to restore it". While we're having so much fun with words, can anybody explain to this simpleton the spelling of "of" as "off" when someone says "That is a one of car" designed and built for Mr Deeppockets. They clearly say "one of" in speaking but when written it is nearly always spelled "one off". Aren't they just shortening their sentence by omitting "a kind". It is a 'one of a kind' car so why say or write OFF? The only time I could understand it being "one off" is if it were "one (car) off the assembly line to receive that size engine" or similar sentence. I'm sure there is some grammatical explanation for this I am just not getting so will be glad to have it explained to me. Edited July 26, 2012 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 You would be going south.DOH!!!!!! Brain fade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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