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BCA 2012-2013 Officers

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Guest BJM
X 2.

Everybody's got short memories. It would be interesting to see a bucket list . . . . . similar to Brian's post #41 above . . . . . from Rick Young to refresh everybody's memory on his accomplishments during his first term as President in 2008.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

"Don't tell me what you're going to do, show me what you've done" (Author not known.)

Al, apples to oranges comparison in all honesty. I 1st got on Rick's enemy list because I questioned why the dues went to $50 when I allowed my membership to lapse before the 2010 Ames National meet. I have been considered an instigator ever since but in all honesty the explanation - mostly from Bill Stoneberg - made sense. It made me appreciate what Rick and Bill did in association with other on the BOD - to get excellent National meets in Colorado and Ames, then this lead to the BCA taking over the National meets, which appears to be a good direction.

Now, what Brian was doing was totally different and so for Rick to note his accomplishments v Brian's is apples to oranges. Different times, different issues, in my humble opinion.

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Guest BJM
As Willie noted you'll have to talk to each BOD member and ask them why they they voted the way they did.

I did. I sent emails to Kris Syrdal, Kevin, Brian C, Mark Lob, Jerry Courson, and Dick Sweeney specifically asking them who they voted for and why. I received one response. I did not email Keith Horsfall, Bill S (who commented on the forum) and Rick Young.

Kris Syrdal is from Minnesota, Kevin (MN) Mark (IA) Jerry (Texas) and Dick (CA) Rick (IA) Bill (TX) Keith (ON) and the person who certified the vote was Alan Oldfield chief judge (Iowa)

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As I have said before but nobody seems to understand is that I am not on the board any longer so I did not have a part in this. Either as a voting member or behind the scenes as is being implied or said by some.

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Guest BJM
As I have said before but nobody seems to understand is that I am not on the board any longer so I did not have a part in this. Either as a voting member or behind the scenes as is being implied or said by some.

Bill

Thanks for clarifying but then how are you still our BCA Treasurer if you are no longer on the BOD. It was my understanding that the Treasurer was a BOD member, as with the President, VP and Secretary. If you are no longer on the BOD then you should not be listed as the Treasurer. Can someone tell the membership what happened at the BOD meeting to allow Bill to remain as Treasurer of the BCA?

I am fine with him being Treasurer if the BOD changed the rules and by-laws to accomodate his experience but I think this is a 1st, correct?

BYLAWS OF THE BCA

Article V - Officers

Section 2. Method of Election - The Board of Directors shall elect said Officers for terms of one year and until the election of their respective successors.

It does not specify that Officers must be on the BOD. Section 3 deals with APPOINTED OFFICERS. The President can appoint additional VP's, an Assistant Treasurer and an Assistant Secretary.

So it appears there is language in the By-Laws allowing any member to be appointed Treasurer through vague language. This must have been discovered and clarified by the Books after the February 2012 BOD meeting where interested parties in the matter were not sure if Bill S could have been Treasurer after his term was up.

Unless someone else is interpretting this differently, I would say Bill Stoneberg can be appointed Treasurer to a one year term indefinitely.

Edited by BJM (see edit history)

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Guest BJM

I am curious to know the minutes from the meeting and whether the meetings will reflect an honest accounting I don't know.

However, IF the Bill Stoneberg appointment to Treasurer was NOT on the pre-BOD meeting agenda then it would need to be added and pushed through. I don't know if Brian D was in favor of this move (Bill Stoneberg as Treasurer beyond his BOD tenure) before the BOD meeting. If it appeared he was not, maybe this was a motive in removing him as President in favor of Rick Young.

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I have read , and reread this and all I have to say is " anyone that questions why I am leaving the BCA, read this forum " . . . . . Good Luck , and GOOD BYE . . . . .

I respect your comments (again). I think a couple of fair questions to ask you would be in order . . . . .

#1. What exactly would bring you back to the BCA or attending a future Nationals?

#2. Have you had any conversations with any BOD member or officer in regards to your reasoning?

#3. Would a separate judging Class for body-off-the-frame, over-restored, trailer queens, and dream cars . . . . . separate from the off-the-assembly-line condition 400 point Class . . . . . be the answer?

#4. How about other issues?

An update would be appreciated. Thanks.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

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I believe the discussion is relevant and requires an accounting.......1st vote resulted in a tie,wherein this lead to an extended period of secret ballots which lead to a return to a President that expressed no prior interest in the position, as he had served in that capacity.......

This overall thread is getting difficult :confused: to follow at times, but let me add a couple of items to the confusion that I haven't seen previously mentioned or addressed. Comments are always appreciated.

#1. There are 9 BOD members. If the first vote ended in a tie, was it a two way tie at 4-4-1 or a three way tie at 3-3-3? Are the vote numbers available to the General BCA membership? I'm not looking for names or who voted for whom (at this time).

#2. Are the vote numbers for the "second go-around" available to the General BCA membership?

#3. Re: the ballots sent out to select the new BOD members. I remember seeing a "spouse's vote column" and would like to know if that ability to submit TWO votes on one ballot is a premium cost to the other spouse's annual general membership fee, or, just because the

spouse is named on the mailing label, is that considered a "free" vote? I thought one membership fee = 1 vote. Please explain. The July 2012 BUICK BUGLE, on the inside front of the mailing wrap, does not address this 2-4-1 issue.

Anybody out there want to chime in? Thanks.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

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This overall thread is getting difficult :confused: to follow at times, but let me add a couple of items to the confusion that I haven't seen previously mentioned or addressed. Comments are always appreciated.

#1. There are 9 BOD members. If the first vote ended in a tie, was it a two way tie at 4-4-1 or a three way tie at 3-3-3? Are the vote numbers available to the General BCA membership? I'm not looking for names or who voted for whom (at this time).

#2. Are the vote numbers for the "second go-around" available to the General BCA membership?

#3. Re: the ballots sent out to select the new BOD members. I remember seeing a "spouse's vote column" and would like to know if that ability to submit TWO votes on one ballot is a premium cost to the other spouse's annual general membership fee, or, just because the

spouse is named on the mailing label, is that considered a "free" vote? I thought one membership fee = 1 vote. Please explain. The July 2012 BUICK BUGLE, on the inside front of the mailing wrap, does not address this 2-4-1 issue.

Anybody out there want to chime in? Thanks.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Great questions....maybe I will engage my leaders directly and ask them.

or

It would sure be nice to get some open feedback, ANY feed back from our ELECTED BOD.......crickets.

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Most of these questions are answered on Page 240 of the 2011 membership roster with contains the SOP and Bylaws of the BCA.

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Al,

I think I can answer the ballot question for spouse. Yes it is a free vote, as there is no extra membership fee for member and spouse. If a spouse does not want to have the name included, or the member does wish to have the spouse recognized that is their choice, and then they have one vote.

There are many spouses that do much for the club - Officiers in local chapters, judging, judging administration abd many othe ractivities. And I might add, many of them are very hard working and well deserving the right to vote. All a member needs is to indicate both name, and yes, the two of you get one vote each.

I am not sure what you mean by "premium cost", or free votes.

John

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I don't recall there being a tie vote for President, so I don't know where that idea came from. 2 candidates, 9 votes. I don't know what the vote tally was as it wasn't announced.

John got the spouse vote correct, they just need to be named on the address label to get a vote.

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Most of these questions are answered on Page 240 of the 2011 membership roster with contains the SOP and Bylaws of the BCA.

Thanks Roberta...I was leaning more to questions #1 and #2 which would require comment from those involved in the voting. I have read the Charter and will keep it handy for future questions.

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I seem to recall some comments from The Old-Guy regarding his choices and decision. There are also a few signals I've seen in other areas, too, which might be "side issues". I appreciate his prior input on various subjects and respect his desires and wishes.

It's great that this discussion in progressing in a civil manner, but it should not devolve into or be considered "drama" or "bickering". It does appear that many might need to curl up in their favorite chair, under a strong light, with the page magnifier (due to font size), and familiarize themselves with the BCA By-Laws and other information in the latest issue of The BCA Roster. It's certainly a LOT MORE than just a listing of BCA members!

Respectfully,

NTX5467

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I seem to recall some comments from The Old-Guy regarding his choices and decision. There are also a few signals I've seen in other areas, too, which might be "side issues". I appreciate his prior input on various subjects and respect his desires and wishes.

It's great that this discussion in progressing in a civil manner, but it should not devolve into or be considered "drama" or "bickering". It does appear that many might need to curl up in their favorite chair, under a strong light, with the page magnifier (due to font size), and familiarize themselves with the BCA By-Laws and other information in the latest issue of The BCA Roster. It's certainly a LOT MORE than just a listing of BCA members!

Respectfully,

NTX5467

Good thought, since the By-laws and SOP need desperate updating, this would be fantastic way to get some feedback!! I offered to review and update the website/internet SOP!!

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Good thought, since the By-laws and SOP need desperate updating, this would be fantastic way to get some feedback!! I offered to review and update the website/internet SOP!!

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction re: spouse's vote.

In my post #50 above, I mentioned that Rick Young's first term as BCA President started in 2008. I got that info from page #246 of the current BCA 2011 MEMBERSHIP ROSTER, under BCA Presidents. See pic #1 below. That is incorrect. Rick's first term started in 2009. I have edited my post #50 above to correct this mistake.

Also, Bill Darrow's term listed as 2007-2008 should be corrected to 2007-2009.

While you're at it, it would be convenient to have a list of all the Buick Nationals years and location included in the Roster. Also, who is responsible to update the Judging Handbook?

Thanks.

Al Mack

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Picture this: on Wednesday morning, November 7, 2012, you read the morning newspaper and the headlines read "XXXXX WINS BY A LANDSLIDE, BUT WE CAN'T TELL YOU THE NUMBERS OR WHAT STATES GAVE HIM THE ELECTORAL VOTE COUNT NEEDED"

post-41556-143139092351_thumb.jpg

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Al'

I will try to answer your questions as succintly as possible.

1 When the National meets stop emphasissing the judging ( or get judging to be " factory correct" )they also need to realize that the driven cars are not "second class citizens " I see that in 2013 they are charging $25 to enter your Buick for display only and as always the " Driven awards "will be given out on the field ( it also cost as much as a 400 point judged car ) It has been my observation that the members that use their Buicks are the core members that do things in our chapter. If the "trophy hunters" do any of our tours, they use another Buick.and not their "work of art

The 2013 National is only 210 miles from home, so I may drive down ( look for a sequoia cream 40 convert ,in the parking lot) ,as I won't pay $60 to park with the BCA Buicks

2 I have not talked to any BOD member , except through this forum. Brian has always given me answers immediately.

3 The problem with a separate class is that there are many problems getting "competent " judges now, and this would compound the problem . I realize that the BOD feels it has a feeling that they MUST support the members that spend inordinate amounts to make what they believe are PERFECT Buicks, but they have sold the vast majority of members

(the ones that actually enjoy their Buicks and do not look on them as "works of art ) down the river !!

Willie

I have become a certified Curmudgeon , and I have no patience anymore. I am going to drive my Buicks to the store, and when the sun is out so will I be.

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Guest BJM

Stealthbob,

Regarding your desire to have BOD members come on here and comment, in review of the By-Laws, Article V Officers - under President it states in part: The President shall be the Chief Executive Officer of the BCA....and shall discharge the duties of the President. He shall perform such other duties and possess such other powers as usually pertains to the office of the President.

Practically speaking, the President speaks on behalf of the BOD and given that the core of the By-Laws was written in the 1970's, it is outdated and could not have anticipated "The Internet" or email as a communication device.

The BOD is not intended to communicate with the membership. Granted, I have asked them to in this thread and personally via email, but they don't have to. Their role is conduct BCA business as they believe it benefits the club and furthering it's mission. The President is to speak as figurehead of the club and that is why Rick did so.

This was made through discovery on my part, just like some of us are doing, in reading the By-Laws and putting 2 and 2 together.

I don't know if anyone remembers "Jurassic Park" but there is a scene near the end where the "jungle Outdoorsman" they bring in to keep the animals in line is trying to catch a Velocoraptor and he is focused on one he sees in front of him who isn't moving. He feels confident he can kill that dinosaur when he realizes it's a trap. He looks to his side where another Velocoraptor is waiting to eat him. He smiles and says "very clever girl" - right before he is eaten.

Welcome to the jungle.

Edited by BJM (see edit history)

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Willie

I have become a certified Curmudgeon , and I have no patience anymore. I am going to drive my Buicks to the store, and when the sun is out so will I be.

Joe, Where did this come from...do you read minds also?:D

Willie

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Willie

Maybe we should see if we can get a "Curmudgeon Division " I would wager there are many members that would join !! It would be almost a "given " that we would have the most fun !!!!

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God! Put me on the member list immediately! When I read that byline I wonder if it is copy written.

In my case curmudgeonism came from years of observation with comprehension; two very difficult talents to balance concurrently. The most fun I have is stereotyping a person from 40 feet away and then watching how hard they work to live up to it. Imagine the Curmudgeon section; graying and half bald, laughing with tear streaming down their cheeks all at the expense of typical .......... oops. Better not do that.

Bernie

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Leave me off...I'm trying to avoid all you "nattering nabobs of negativism":eek:;).

Willie

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At either the Board meeting or the General membership meeting, someone jokingly suggested we have a "Trailered Division"

Just a comment on the Board elections and officers. Each year I receive proxies from several companies allowing me to vote for members of their board, but in no case am I voting for them as a officer. The Board members of those companies and the Board members of the BCA are the best people to elect the officers they must work with, not the stockholders or the BCA general membership

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I agree with Barney. I would not like to see the President elected by a full membership vote, when we are voting on a BOD with alternating 3 year terms.

John

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I agree with Barney. I would not like to see the President elected by a full membership vote, when we are voting on a BOD with alternating 3 year terms.

John

With all due respect, if BOD officers are elected to be what they are, "by their friends", then what does that make the other "members" of the BOD? Are they "the other group of BOD members", rather than a part of a unified group whom "the membership" (however representative of the total group that those who vote might be) voted to do the business of the BCA?

Unlike the corporate entity which Barney mentioned, in the BCA we can put names and faces together at annual BCA National Meets, personally interact, and come to know whom these people are. Perhaps it's this more personal environment, where the players on the team are fully known, makes the BCA different from a large corporate entity, with respect to BOD officers?

So . . . it appears we have one set of "friends" who desire answers . . . and another set of "friends" who aren't talking AND don't have to. (This can make a better plot than most daytime television serials!)

REMEMBER THE LEMONADE!!!

I make these comments as a free-standing current member of the BCA.

Willis Bell 20811

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I just got the July issue of the Bugle a few days ago and I will swear to the good Lord that I read where Paul Meyer was going to be our BCA President for the next year. I remember my Dad telling me on many an occasion that we have the finest politicians that money can buy. It sounds like the political crap has invaded the BCA. What a shame - I just want Pete to keep writing great stories about teens and twenties Buicks. Opinions are like #$@holes - everybody has one and I would like to state mine on here. Why in God's name would ANYBODY want this Rick Young character back in a position of power and influence? Doesn't anyone remember the BCA meet of 2008? There was a chance to collaborate with the Vintage Chevrolet Club and have a spectacular 100th Anniversary of General Motors Celebration. It was told to me that this guy single-handedly put the skid on that idea. What a mental giant!

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

1916 Model D-45

1920 Model K-46

1922 Model 22-6-48

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