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What To Look For When Inspecting A Model A


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Hey guys as some of you may remember I posted a thread asking for help finding my first antique car. I didn't have any knowledge of these cars so began lurking here and reading what I could, taking down notes from threads and things you guys posted in my thread. The thread has been inactive for a while, but not because I have. I still search and read this forum daily. Through your help we figured out what I was interested in (1930 to late '39s) and I was able to narrow my search. Things I really liked in a car: four door with suicides, gullwing hood, detached headlights, large vertical grille. These weren't necessarily deal breakers if a car didn't have them but definitely my main interests. I wanted a car as original or at least appearing as original as possible. I was looking for a driver that I could drive home, not a show car or project car. Additionally, I originally wanted the car to be able to be driven on the freeway if I took it to some cities around me. Not long distances, but still on the freeway. It didn't occur to me until recently that there are several large side roads that will just as easily take me to each city. It'd be nice to cruise on the open freeway but not a requirement.

Anyway enough rambling. I found this 1930 Ford Model A today and considering it's the first car that fits my requirements I've found that wasn't 100+ miles from me (this is about 10 miles) I decided I want to go inspect it. Now, I've never been up close and personal with any antique car. I have a 1970 Chevelle that I just completed so that's why I don't want another project. The Chevelle is as old as it's gotten for me. Besides seeing one driving down the road, I haven't seen them.

I'm hoping you gentleman can give me some pointers on things to look for and what to do when I inspect the car, specifically the one in the ad and what a fair price (given the info from the ad) would be for the car. I'm no mechanic but no dummy either. I bought the Chevelle not running and missing a transmission with hardly any knowledge of working on cars. I did all the work myself and learned a lot so I know a bit. I realize these two cars are very different but that's half the excitement of a prewar car for me is learning something new.

I appreciate any replies and this car or not hope to join the club in the near future.

Ford : Model A Town Sedan Ford : Model A Town Sedan | eBay

He also has the car listed on Craigslist with an asking price of 14,750 and that is not firm.

Edited by Scuba Steve (see edit history)
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It depends alot on what you want from the car. Do you want something that's stock, do you want something to play with or something that you might think of restoring later. Model "A" Fords are the easiest cars to restore correctly because of so much documentation ,but so many (even this one) suffers . If you want a toy it will probably fit the bill. If you want something that's close to original maybe look elsewhere. It has the wrong interior, wrong wheels and tires, some kind of aftermarket oil filter and overdrive. All these things enter into the picture ,especially if you're looking for an authentic car. It looks as though the owner has set it up for touring,so that makes it more of a "fun" car than anything else. As far as price ,these cars are all over the board;find one that tickles your fancy and if the price sounds good to you then it's a good deal for you. I'm more of a purist so a car like this,with all the changes needed to make it correct would not be worth very much to me! But like I said ,there is no accounting for taste and you must decide what you really want. Good "A"'s are still available in the $4,000 -$6,000 bracket for an authentic running car! Just my opinion!

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It depends alot on what you want from the car. Do you want something that's stock, do you want something to play with or something that you might think of restoring later. Model "A" Fords are the easiest cars to restore correctly because of so much documentation ,but so many (even this one) suffers . If you want a toy it will probably fit the bill. If you want something that's close to original maybe look elsewhere. It has the wrong interior, wrong wheels and tires, some kind of aftermarket oil filter and overdrive. All these things enter into the picture ,especially if you're looking for an authentic car. It looks as though the owner has set it up for touring,so that makes it more of a "fun" car than anything else. As far as price ,these cars are all over the board;find one that tickles your fancy and if the price sounds good to you then it's a good deal for you. I'm more of a purist so a car like this,with all the changes needed to make it correct would not be worth very much to me! But like I said ,there is no accounting for taste and you must decide what you really want. Good "A"'s are still available in the $4,000 -$6,000 bracket for an authentic running car! Just my opinion!

Thanks for the reply. I should have been more specific. I am not too concerned with every last detail being exactly correct. Over time I would like to bring the car back to as original as possible but I do NOT want a rat rod or hot rod. I don't want a car slammed to the ground with a 350 in it. This car will be a fun cruiser, not a 1000 point show car, if that gives you a better idea. My Chevelle has a 454 in it and I get my speed needs out of the way with that so I don't mind putting around. In a car like this that's what I want to do.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be perfect but as long as it appears original (the interior is fine by me but something with modern bucket seats or crazy upholstery would be a no go) I am happy. Perhaps they run higher in my area but I barely see donor cars for 4-6k.

Short version: from what I can see, I would be happy with this car given it has incorrect things.

Edited by Scuba Steve (see edit history)
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Steve,

A Model A Ford is an excellent choice for a first Antique Car. That car is in better condition but similar to my first Model A Ford. If you live in a hot climate with any significant humidity, you will not enjoy those aftermarket vinyl seat covers. They get very hot. I wonder what type of transmission it has. The shift lever is not correct for an original Model A Transmission. I have no personal experience with the high compression head and lightened flywheel but I would suggest you talk with someone in your local area who has a Model A with those modifications to see if it is capable of operating on your local freeways. A Model A's top speed is not normally going to be adequate for Freeway speeds. A properly restored Model A Ford will easily do 55 miles per hour. An improperly restored Model A Ford may only be capable of sustained speeds nearer to 45 mph. With the original drivetrain, 70 mph on a freeway is not an option.

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Steve,

A Model A Ford is an excellent choice for a first Antique Car. That car is in better condition but similar to my first Model A Ford. If you live in a hot climate with any significant humidity, you will not enjoy those aftermarket vinyl seat covers. They get very hot. I wonder what type of transmission it has. The shift lever is not correct for an original Model A Transmission. I have no personal experience with the high compression head and lightened flywheel but I would suggest you talk with someone in your local area who has a Model A with those modifications to see if it is capable of operating on your local freeways. A Model A's top speed is not normally going to be adequate for Freeway speeds. A properly restored Model A Ford will easily do 55 miles per hour. An improperly restored Model A Ford may only be capable of sustained speeds nearer to 45 mph. With the original drivetrain, 70 mph on a freeway is not an option.

Thanks for the post. I do not live in any humidity whatsoever and will also not be driving this car everyday. I have a daily driver so the Chevelle and this car will be simply for fun. CA weather is perfect. :) I'll try and find some local clubs or something. I had found one previously but it wasn't active and there was no others near me. With a Model A I didn't expect to drive on the freeway and that was originally why I stopped searching for them. However, it's not a requirement anymore to be able to drive on them and the side roads I can take would be more than do able at 40mph or so.

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Thanks for the reply. I should have been more specific. I am not too concerned with every last detail being exactly correct. Over time I would like to bring the car back to as original as possible but I do NOT want a rat rod or hot rod. I don't want a car slammed to the ground with a 350 in it. This car will be a fun cruiser, not a 1000 point show car, if that gives you a better idea. My Chevelle has a 454 in it and I get my speed needs out of the way with that so I don't mind putting around. In a car like this that's what I want to do.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be perfect but as long as it appears original (the interior is fine by me but something with modern bucket seats or crazy upholstery would be a no go) I am happy. Perhaps they run higher in my area but I barely see donor cars for 4-6k.

Short version: from what I can see, I would be happy with this car given it has incorrect things.

Steve, I own a 1930 Town sedan and far and away the most important thing on these cars is the structural wood framing that was common on all four door Model As with the exception of the 1931 slant windshield models. The doors and the body are sheet metal nailed and screwed to the wood framework. Make sure that the wood in this car is good. It looks like a nice car. I might also have you consider your height. Tall people can have a difficult time fitting into a Model A. Try it on before you buy. Good luck, Terry

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Steve,

I agree with Terry. Driving at least several (the more the better) antique cars before you settle on a which type you like is very important. It is a buyer's market out there especially for 20's and 30's cars. Don't be too concerned about missing this one. Henry made more than enough to go around.

Good luck and most importantly, have fun.

Dwight

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Steve, I own a 1930 Town sedan and far and away the most important thing on these cars is the structural wood framing that was common on all four door Model As with the exception of the 1931 slant windshield models. The doors and the body are sheet metal nailed and screwed to the wood framework. Make sure that the wood in this car is good. It looks like a nice car. I might also have you consider your height. Tall people can have a difficult time fitting into a Model A. Try it on before you buy. Good luck, Terry

Thanks for the post, Terry. Very good info about the wood framing. I will be sure to check that thoroughly. I'm 5'10" at 170 (hope to be 180 by the end of the year lol) so I don't think I'd have a problem fitting but I will definitely make sure it's not an issue.

Steve,

I agree with Terry. Driving at least several (the more the better) antique cars before you settle on a which type you like is very important. It is a buyer's market out there especially for 20's and 30's cars. Don't be too concerned about missing this one. Henry made more than enough to go around.

Good luck and most importantly, have fun.

Dwight

Dwight, thanks for the reply. I understand getting familiar with these cars before hand especially since in the time frame I'm interested in so many changes were made. Before I bought the Chevelle I was looking at all muscle cars from the mid '60s to early '70s. I was basically in the same situation I am now, just different era. I realize there may be unforeseen issue that arise after owning it for a while but if I like it initially I don't see there being an issue. I know that may sound ignorant but I'm not hard to please and when I set my mind on something there's not much that can change it. At the same time, I'm not going to buy a car just because it's the first one I've seen. I'm young and have paid for everything I have on my own so I understand the value of a dollar and am not going to throw my hard earned money at something I'm sot sure of, if that makes sense.

The owner e-mailed me back and answered a couple questions I originally sent him and included some receipts.

Thanks for your interest, Steve. I am attaching a couple of documents

which give some history. I have it listed on eBay with 12 pictures -- I

will forward that page to you (scroll down to see the images). Yes, the

car runs and drives well. I have had it on the freeway at 55-60 mph in

overdrive; it handles fine, but w/ mechanical brakes, no more than 50 is

safer. If I were to keep the car and take it on tours or trips, I think I

would replace the steering box as there is a little more play in the

steering than can be adjusted away. I bought the car 6 yrs ago when I was

a little more of a Model A enthusiast and with the expectation of touring.

Now, I am older and I only need one Model A. Am keeping my '28 closed

cab pickup because I built it from the ground up (though it is MUCH less

comfy). Don't hesitate to respond w/ more questions.... Mark

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Edited by Scuba Steve (see edit history)
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Got another reply from the owner in regards to certain questions.

Steve--

I will take some pictures tomorrow and send them. You said you want a

view of the dash; other specific views?

The wood framing is very sound. The doors all click nicely when closed;

the reveal of the doors relative to the posts is symmetrical. I replaced

the soft roofing recently so I could inspect the wood on the roof

perimeter and the bows -- all sound. I filled all of the previous tack

holes with toothpicks and glue as recommended before tacking the new

roofing material and beading (hide-em).

I drove the car the first year with a borrowed motor while mine was being

rebuilt -- probably 200-250 miles. The motor, transmission (also rebuilt)

and overdrive were installed in November '07. Since then I have driven it

750 to 1000 miles at most (can't be too accurate because I kept changing

speedometers). Have taken no trips over 25 miles -- mostly trips into

town and back (12 miles) 2 or 3 times a month.

Hope this info helps -- will send pics tomorrow with views you want....

Mark

Maybe it's just the different era of cars but I never had one owner half this helpful when dealing with the 15 or so Chevelles I viewed before buying mine. At least I don't have the stress of a shady owner.

I will of course inspect everything myself, that goes without saying. I've looked at Chevelles that I was told had no bondo or rust but a magnet wouldn't stick to anywhere of the car. With Chevelles, there are key rust points are certain things like the wood framing that need to be thoroughly inspected. Are there any of those for Model As besides the wood framing? I'm going to go over the entire car obviously but like I said with Chevelles there are specific areas to take a very close look at, I just want to be as informed as possible when looking.

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Matt, it has been a while since I had my Model A and I have not been in touch but it seems there are a few good guys on Ford Barn in Scuba Steve's area. Anyone come to mind? Steve, a couple "A" sites to check out in addition to Ford Barn would be the MARC and MAFCA (national Model A clubs) websites. In terms of fit, well, we are the same height, but I am... well, a tad heavier. You will fit no problem! :)

I doubt anyone would put the kind of money this gent seems to have put into this car if the wood was bad, of course it warrents inspection, but if it is good, I think it is safe to say that for hobby use Steve would not have to worry about rot for a long, long, time, right?

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Scuba Steve,

Steve Mack has a good idea. There is probably someone close by who will be happy to help you inspect the car. I don't know anybody from the Santa Cruz area personally. There is a guy on Fordbarn who uses the user name of Pat in Santa Cruz. Perhaps you could contact him on Fordbarn and he would be willing to help you inspect the car. I think that the guy selling the car may be on Fordbarn too. The photo from the ebay auction looks vaguely familiar as if I have seen it posted on Fordbarn previously.

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Come on guys! Road Trip! get a couple of you Model A guys (and girls) to check of this beauty.

Let's get Steve kicked off inthe right direction! If I wasn't 3,000 miles away, I'd come!

Pick a night Steve. Someone bring a videocamera so we came all take part!

I hadn't thought of that before, if I can find someone who is willing to inspect the car with me that would be great. Anyone want some cases of beer? ;)

Steve,

For a Four Door Model A, to get away from wood framing you need to find a late 1931, you need to look for a Slant Windshield car.

Are you suggesting to stay away from any wood framed cars?

Matt, it has been a while since I had my Model A and I have not been in touch but it seems there are a few good guys on Ford Barn in Scuba Steve's area. Anyone come to mind? Steve, a couple "A" sites to check out in addition to Ford Barn would be the MARC and MAFCA (national Model A clubs) websites. In terms of fit, well, we are the same height, but I am... well, a tad heavier. You will fit no problem! :)

I doubt anyone would put the kind of money this gent seems to have put into this car if the wood was bad, of course it warrents inspection, but if it is good, I think it is safe to say that for hobby use Steve would not have to worry about rot for a long, long, time, right?

Checking out FB now, thanks for the tip. Not sure if I stated it but this car will be garaged at all times and not be driven in the rain. Plus with the weather here I don't have to worry about salty roads, humidity, etc. I don't mind working on the car at all, in fact it's what I enjoy but I don't want to have to replace half the car from the start either. The Chevelle was a project and while fun I don't want one right away. I still have things to finish on the Chevelle lol.

Scuba Steve,

Steve Mack has a good idea. There is probably someone close by who will be happy to help you inspect the car. I don't know anybody from the Santa Cruz area personally. There is a guy on Fordbarn who uses the user name of Pat in Santa Cruz. Perhaps you could contact him on Fordbarn and he would be willing to help you inspect the car. I think that the guy selling the car may be on Fordbarn too. The photo from the ebay auction looks vaguely familiar as if I have seen it posted on Fordbarn previously.

Hmm, the owner's e-mail is MarknPat I wonder if it is the same person? I'll check it out and see if there is anyone close by. If I can find a Model A expert to help inspect the car that would be awesome. The owner also sent me pictures of when he was replacing the soft roof patch and the wood framing. He sent several with many close ups. The wood looks solid. His asking price on Craigslist of 14,750 is also not firm.

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Ahhh

All the 'modern upgrades'.

To me all I see on that sheet tell me that the owner has no clue on what it takes to properly build a the Model A, but he did have lots of extra cash. Hopefully the car will be reliable, most of what was done to the car is not field repairable when it fails so the car will have to be towed back.

If the car was sort of done right then with all that it has it would run 60+ MPH comfortably!!!!!!!!!

It should not be darting about hard to hold on the road. It should not feel like you are lucky to stop (please be careful as they are drum brakes, not the disk brakes you are used to). If the guy has reservations about letting you run above 45 MPH then move on to another car. It is clear the car is not built right at that point and you may spend a lot of money making it right.

From the factory the original A's were capable and were driving 60 MPH. The dealers demonstrated this and those of us who know how to rebuild a car properly back to factory drive that way. The original model A was very reliable and even more so today with a few minor items like modern condensers, modern batteries, and modern tires.

Ya I sound kind of negative, but that is from long term experience. People do all these 'modern upgrades' because they do not understand how to properly rebuild the original parts.

Drive the car and do not baby it. For the bucks this guy has spent it can take it. If it seems to be fine then you have to figure out if it is a good value to you. I do not know what the guy is asking, but with $17k into it I am guessing he wants a bunch more. There are better deals out there, but you have to take the time to look. You could very easily come away losing money as what this car truly sell for might really be much less in the future. Not to mention that you could get stuck with lots of repair bills if the car was done wrong. Just because lots of new stuff was installed on the car that does not mean it was done right. I know of more than one guy spending top buck at a professional shop only to spend another $8k in making the car safe and reliable to drive.

It is your money, you have to decide how much you are comfortable in risking. It would be very wise getting someone that knows how to build the A to run 60 MPH to come with you to inspect the car.

Edited by A by the sea (see edit history)
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"Are you suggesting to stay away from any wood framed cars?"

No, just suggesting that as one way to avoid a potential problem that was being discussed earlier.

Understood.

Ahhh

All the 'modern upgrades'.

To me all I see on that sheet tell me that the owner has no clue on what it takes to properly build a the Model A, but he did have lots of extra cash. Hopefully the car will be reliable, most of what was done to the car is not field repairable when it fails so the car will have to be towed back.

If the car was sort of done right then with all that it has it would run 60+ MPH comfortably!!!!!!!!!

It should not be darting about hard to hold on the road. It should not feel like you are lucky to stop (please be careful as they are drum brakes, not the disk brakes you are used to). If the guy has reservations about letting you run above 45 MPH then move on to another car. It is clear the car is not built right at that point and you may spend a lot of money making it right.

From the factory the original A's were capable and were driving 60 MPH. The dealers demonstrated this and those of us who know how to rebuild a car properly back to factory drive that way. The original model A was very reliable and even more so today with a few minor items like modern condensers, modern batteries, and modern tires.

Ya I sound kind of negative, but that is from long term experience. People do all these 'modern upgrades' because they do not understand how to properly rebuild the original parts.

Drive the car and do not baby it. For the bucks this guy has spent it can take it. If it seems to be fine then you have to figure out if it is a good value to you. I do not know what the guy is asking, but with $17k into it I am guessing he wants a bunch more. There are better deals out there, but you have to take the time to look. You could very easily come away losing money as what this car truly sell for might really be much less in the future. Not to mention that you could get stuck with lots of repair bills if the car was done wrong. Just because lots of new stuff was installed on the car that does not mean it was done right. I know of more than one guy spending top buck at a professional shop only to spend another $8k in making the car safe and reliable to drive.

It is your money, you have to decide how much you are comfortable in risking. It would be very wise getting someone that knows how to build the A to run 60 MPH to come with you to inspect the car.

Thanks for the post. I do not take it in a negative way whatsoever. I asked for opinions and wanted all. I don't want to be told things to make me happy if it's not the truth. Not saying people have done that but I want as realistic perspective as possible. I'm definitely going to try and get a Model A eexpert to inspect the car with me. The seller is asking 14,750 on his Craigslist ad. He said it is not firm. There have been other prewar cars I've been interested in for sale over the months but they were all over 100 miles from me. This is the first that's relatively close, let alone in my backyard so I want to finally get out and inspect a car.

It looks like a contender to me. It all depends on the price. It is now in the ballpark and does look nice in the fotos.

I didn't realize I forgot to mention his CL asking price in my original post. Just added it. 14,750 and is not firm.

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Looks a very usable car as is. Looks very expensive to make original (receipt says B engine, vinyl interior , modern paint, 16" wheels and tires). So if you like this car as it is , go ahead. If you have a concern with later resale I would move on to a more stock A.

If you are looking just to the era, the best part of an A is the easy availability of cheap parts. There were far better engineered cars of the era.

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Looks a very usable car as is. Looks very expensive to make original (receipt says B engine, vinyl interior , modern paint, 16" wheels and tires). So if you like this car as it is , go ahead. If you have a concern with later resale I would move on to a more stock A.

If you are looking just to the era, the best part of an A is the easy availability of cheap parts. There were far better engineered cars of the era.

That's one thing I'm considering. For me, those incorrect things are ok. I don't want a rat rod or something highly modified. I don't ever plan to sell the car but like I said, I want to ensure that if something comes up I'm not digging myself out too deep.

An update on the member Pat from the Ford Barn. I sent him a PM and he is good friends and neighbor's with the owner. He gave me some info and said the engine rebuild shop Mark had the engine done at is top notch and he has had them do a few of his own engines. Good and bad news because I don't think his neighbor will inspect the car for me like someone who had no relation to the owner would but he did say it had been done right.

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Steve, you may be ok on resale with this one as there seems to be two schools of thought with Model A people - those who really like to tour a lot, and want a car set up for that, and those who really prefer the car in it's pure form. For the touring crowd this car is perfect, the "B" engine (from a '32 4 cylinder car, but essentially the same thing) and all. The only thing I really would not like on this car, but I get the reasoning behind it, is the smaller wheels and I believe radials. I would prefer the stocker 19" rims and Firestone BW but you can always change it if you felt the same. I just hate the look of radials on any prewar car, but that is really a personal nit..

There is something about a stone stock "A" though, and if you want one, they are probably the most common prewar collector car, there are at least a dozen on CL here in CT on any given week. The values have declined/flattenned a bit which I do not think is a bad thing, they are the quintissential entry prewar car, simple enough to restore yourself, as body removal was actually commonplace for mechanical maintenance back in the day. If you hear that "only old people like these cars and no one is interested under 60" it is BS - younger people don't necesarilly have the time for clubs and not conting the one I sold some time ago, I know of 3 - 4 "A"s withing a couple mile radius of my house owned by guys my age or younger, and one more by a retired fellow. That said, these are coming up for sale out of estates or just people who have decided it is time to let it go all the time. It has been said that it takes an afternoon and around $50 to revive an "A" that has been in storage for a long time, and for the most part, this is true. So if this is not the car, others will come along. Very cool cars..

One last idea, if your new friend Pat is friendly enough, ask him for a ride in his car, if nothing else you will experience an "A" and get at least one frame of reference to compare the car you are looking at with. Worst case, you make a new friend, and can decide if that is the car for you. Ideally, if you could do that with a late 30s car you could see the difference between the two ends of the decade. To me, the "A" is a true "antique" experience, takes a little skill to drive but I like that not everyone can drive one, especially with the stock transmisison.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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Steve, all the above statements are accurate. Someone brought up the tight seating of a Model A. The seats are not adjustable on Fordors and if you are average height and weight for a modern man( 1930 folks were shorter and less in girth) long tours will be a drudge. This is a typical California tourer with overdrive, alternator etc. There are alot of MAFCA chapters near the San Francisco area and they love to go on tours at 55mph+. This is a nice car built apparently for that purpose. I would not recommend a Fordor or rumble seat car if you plan on taking young children. They love to play with handles, and you'll never be at peace. I have a 1931 late Tudor Deluxe it has a sliding seat, which when pushed back, is a joy on long tours. Coupes( Deluxe) also have adjustable seats along with Victorias, as do some other models. If knee and back issues are important to you, consider the cars with sliding seats. Tudors or coupes can have sliders installed. I would advise that you join an AACA chapter near you. I would almost gaurantee some one has a Model A to show you. If the A is for you join MAFCA( Model A Ford Club of America) as well. Ron Sotardi, Tucson

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Scuba Steve, If I recall correctly you are in the San Jose area.

There is a very active chapter of the Model A Ford Club in the area and I bet the members of that club would be more than happy to educate you on the car and what to look for. It could just be me, but I find walking around and looking at a few cars while the people who really know them point out things is a fast way to learn. Santa Clara Valley Chapter of the Model A Ford Club of America

Most of the Model A cars/people I know are from casual encounters at local meets. If you don't find them friendly and informative enough the get some help from the Model T Ford types. The ones here here seem to have other cars too and members of the local chapter are very friendly and can give you contacts for people knowledgeable about pretty nearly any make or year, at least for pre-WW2. Santa Clara Valley Model T Ford Club

And thinking of the Model T chapter, put September 9th on your calendar for the "Antique Cars at History Park". That has got to be the best old car get together in the area. Coordinated by the Model T club but the Model A club usually has the highest participation. And many other clubs show up too. Usually the Chevrolet, Durant, Plymouth, and horseless carriage clubs are there too.

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