Condensation out of the exhaust pipe

[1957buickjim]

Is it normal to have condensation coming out of the exhaust pipe for the first 10 to 15 minutes that the car is running?

I have been having some running issues..car starts runs fine. I shut it off, then won't start, tries, but seems like it is starving for fuel. Then starts again and runs fine. It will stall randomly during driving. It is not missing, that I can tell, unless it is a random miss during running, but have not noticed any stumble in the car when driving either.

Any suggestions?

[Caballero2]

Jim, I think the condensation is normal. I can tell from your description of the problem that ethanol is influencing your hot starts. There is a link here discussing the ethanol problems. I do not know if any of these are close-by, but I think it might help.

Ethanol-free gas stations in MI

http://forums.aaca.org/f162/what-you-doing-run-current-91-a-328570.html

Edited June 18, 2012 by Caballero2 (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

Dan,

Thanks. I thought that might be it, but it was running well before on the ethanol based fuel. Maybe the place I bought it from changed the formulation. The closest one to me is 24mi, so I will get to it this week, once I get the muffler repaired and hopefully the engine running smoothly as you will see below.

Right now, I am trying to figure out a huge problem. The car backfired and blew up the muffler. I have been having problems with it just recently and now I can't get the darned thing to run properly. It is like it is starving for fuel. I have changed the fuel pump (the one I had on it started leaking at the pulsator) and then changed it out to a factory rebuilt one. Seemed to work out ok. Couldn't find any info on the installation, but it seemed to go in ok, and I think it is on the lobe OK.

Going to re-check all the vacuum lines, intake, vac advance, exhaust connections to make sure there is no vacuum leaks.

Have replaced all the fuel line from stem to stern with new line and have installed a fuel filter as well in line at the tank.

Have a rebuilt and ready to install carb, cleaned out, good power piston, set to specs.

Put in a assist electric pump - switch operated, thinking that it could be the vapor lock issue with heated engine.

Timing is ok, but hard to tell since I have to wait to get the muffler fixed, I think to get the engine timed. If not, let me know, since I can do that today.

Changed out the spark plugs, put new wires, dist cap, rotor and condenser in. Did not mess with the timing or change points, since they were good, but have new points to put in if needed. Plugs looked good, but they were loose in the head, (hand tight) and 1 and 3 had some oil blow by, it looked like, but none were fouled, all light grey on the ignitor tips.

The only other thing I did was put a glass bowl fuel filter in the system, factory type, with the hose from the fuel pump to the filter and the hose out of the filter to the carb bowl. My car did not have that orginally, just the line to the carb from the pump. Could that cause any issues?

I am starting to get very concerned that I am not going to make it to Nationals with this type of intermittent stall / fuel issue.

[avgwarhawk]

Backfire is a result of large amounts of unburned fuel making its way to the muffler. The question to answer is what allowed the fuel to get by the cylinder to the muffler. Timing normally will create a backfire through the carb if the timing is off. Yours is correct or untouched per your post. Sounds like your carb is loading up on fuel and not actually starving of fuel.

[Caballero2]

I would suggest that you put an inline fuel filter in, but leave the glass in place but empty. Then before judging, remove the inline and hook up the glass. The inline is much safer anyway. The backfire is often caused by a fouled plug allowing raw fuel into the exaust, then a backfire. Another backfire can be caused by a bad condenser or a shorting wire in the distributor or at the coil. Also a bad point gap or reversed polarity of the hot wire at the coil.

Good luck. Dan

[1957buickjim]

Warhawk,

Timing is good. When cold, the car starts ok, after a few cranks. It does, sometimes, but not all the time, turn over, fire, then go dead. It will do this a few times, then it will start. I have now started to hold the gas pedal down, thinking that it might be flooded, and that has helped it re-start.

What would cause it to load up? I have the float in the carb set to spec. I have double and triple checked it. The fuel bowl in the glass filter is full. I am wondering if the fuel line change to the glass bowl style leaves additional fuel in the system pressurized and then drains it in the intake some how? Any suggestions here on how to lean out the system would be appreciated.

Dan,

It is not backfiring out of the carb, so that's why I think the timing is ok. When it is running, it is running and I turn the car off, it does not run on or diesel. Shuts right down. So, that makes me think that it is not ignition issues, unless there is an intermittent one somewhere.

I have an additional coil and parts (condenser, etc) to make the checks. But would like to try to narrow it down some. Coil leads are correct. No shorts that I can see, but will double check the distributor wire coming out as well. Any other items you can lend a thought to?

Thanks so far.

[avgwarhawk]

Timing is good. When cold, the car starts ok, after a few cranks. It does, sometimes, but not all the time, turn over, fire, then go dead. It will do this a few times, then it will start. I have now started to hold the gas pedal down, thinking that it might be flooded, and that has helped it re-start.

My 264 starts exactly like yours. Cold start a crank or two. Choke does it's thing when very cold. After running and hot it gets vapor lock. I sometimes have to push the peddle to the floor so it will start. We are exihibiting the same issue and probably from the ethanol and classic vapor lock.

What would cause it to load up? I have the float in the carb set to spec. I have double and triple checked it. The fuel bowl in the glass filter is full. I am wondering if the fuel line change to the glass bowl style leaves additional fuel in the system pressurized and then drains it in the intake some how? Any suggestions here on how to lean out the system would be appreciated.

I'm not sure on the glass bowl. I have a Carter 2 brrl. The inline filter is not the fuel bowl type.

Dan,

It is not backfiring out of the carb, so that's why I think the timing is ok. When it is running, it is running and I turn the car off, it does not run on or diesel. Shuts right down. So, that makes me think that it is not ignition issues, unless there is an intermittent one somewhere.

I have an additional coil and parts (condenser, etc) to make the checks. But would like to try to narrow it down some. Coil leads are correct. No shorts that I can see, but will double check the distributor wire coming out as well. Any other items you can lend a thought to?

Sounds to me your timing is ok. The backfire still leads me to the carb and loading up on fuel. What is odd is you state the car is running fine. I'm guessing the engine backfired once and has been ok since then?

[Caballero2]

The new electric fuel pump is turned off? The problem also sounds like flooding.

Dan

[1957buickjim]

Dan, electric pump is switch operated, so it is off for sure. Not sure what is causing the flooding condition. How do you check the fuel pump pressure? What type of tool or gauge do you use? I have a tire gauge and a compression gauge. How do you check the psi on the pump? Could that be it? Right now I am going through a complete remove and replace on the fuel system up to the fuel pump. Putting on a known, rebuilt carb, all orifices are clean and open. Removing the bowl filter and putting an inline on with line right from the carb (gravity feed as well) Could the float setting as specified in the rebuild kit (NOS Carter) be off, because of ethanol fuel? If so, would the float need to go to a lower setting (in the bowl, larger on the gauge - I think) Let me know what you think of those ideas? I just dont get why the darn thing is flooding.....

[1957buickjim]

Chris, I guess I mis-stated what my car is doing. It is now not running fine at all. It was and then all of the sudden now...hard to start, flooding, and just not starting, then starting and chugging until the gas is burned off or in my case, poured into the exhaust system and blew up. As I stated above with the post to Dan..going through all the items to eliminate the flooding at the carb issue. Not sure what would cause the flooding...

[old-tank]

Jim

Change those good looking points and do all the other checks others have suggested and you had planned. Get some fresh gas from a high volume station, preferably ethanol free (sounds like the highly volatile gas is boiling over in the carb --- gas sold a few months ago was even more volatile than currently available).

I recently had a set of good quality NAPA points just go dead while driving. They had less than 500 miles and filing and sanding would not revive them. I had flooding issues from volatile gas boil over a few times on my trip to and from the Nationals last year: once on B-P, the other on Valero.

Install a cheap glass pack or a straight section of pipe until you get the backfiring sorted out: correct mufflers are expensive.

Willie

[1957buickjim]

Thanks Willie. Will do on the points. Didn't think about the glass pack / cheapo muffler, but good idea. As for the gas, I just filled it up 2 weeks ago, so it should be OK, and the station that I go to is a very high volume station. I will dump it and get some real gas and try it out after I have gone through the checks that I am doing.

[1957buickjim]

Would an inop vac advance on the distributor cause this issue? I tried to test mine on the car with a vacuum pump and it does not move. I have a spare distributor and tested the vac advance on it and it moves a 8 lbs(?) of vacuum. The one on the car right now does not even hold vacuum. I am guessing that it is shot. Could this be part of the problem? Thanks.

[Caballero2]

Yep

Dan

[1957buickjim]

You the man Dan!!! Got my distributor out, points look great, no chafing of any wires, all is good under the cap...except the vac advance!!! Won't hold a vacuum. Going to replace it with the spare...Then lets see what happens...Yee Ha!

[buick5563]

Yay!!!

[55 SURVIVOR]

Check the ceramic coil resistor block,it may be going bad creating weak spark[flooding]also i had my stromberg carburater rebuilt and the new float needle was a semi spherical pad instead of a regular needle,it would allow a small amount of fuel to enter the intake after the car was shut off[flood on next start],i scuffed the needle very slightly with scotchbrite to get a better seat.I would rather of had the regular pointed needle but can not find one,check your float level while the car is running by taking out the sight plug on the side of the carb bowl.Mine runs fine,i had similar problems as you have described except the back fire,it is gone as i had repleced the resistor block,it is working good if it gets hot to touch while motor idles.the resistor block regulates the coil voltage.They are cheap,i got mine at NAPA.KEEP AN EXTRA. MARK

[1957buickjim]

Well Buick Team..the turmoil with Old Bessie has been solved. The vacuum advance was the culprit. With the help of my ace tuner, Gibby, we got the engine humming like a Buick should. Timing, dwell, fuel/air mix, low idle, the whole shooting match. Now she purrs like a kitten, a very loud kitten..maybe a tiger..ok, still need a muffler, but wow, back to Buick heaven. Starts, restarts, no fuel spills, leaks, smells, nothing. Just the nice start of a Buick. Thanks to everybody who helped me on this. It was a frustrating spell, for sure...like chasing a ghost. Who you gonna call!! Ghostbusters!!

Edited June 19, 2012 by 1957buickjim (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Did you have a vacuum advance unit or did you change the entire distributor?

[1957buickjim]

Chris,

I bought a used distributor of of eBay a while ago, thinking it would be good for spare parts and it was. Took the vac advance unit from it (worked great), cleaned it up, tore down the one on the car and hooked up the other one. Sometimes it is nice to know that all those spare parts can go to good use. So, I used the distributor that was in the car with the vac advance from the spare distributor.

[avgwarhawk]

Thanks Jim. I'm working with another fellow forum member on a distributor. I'm of the same mind to keep parts such as the distributor onhand. Glad she is running like a top for you!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Now, about that danged water dribbling out the tailpipe...

JIM, I'll be riding shotgun with you, in spirit, all the way to North Carolina and back.

[buick man]

Jim: Why are you running with the fuel glass bowl crowd for judging on a 57 Buick?

As far as I know 57 did not come with the glass bowl and was only put on by Monday morning dealers and others taken from 56 and earlier stock piles. People had been weened on seeing the fuel before it was going into the carb for years and not having one on the car was, well, disturbing to folks. Also, that darn new in tank fuel filter was a little discerning for many folks and hard to monitor for overall saintly cleanliness, thereby encouraging a certain "feel" inside a number of folks creating the need to go, get under the car or raise it up and unscrew the filter housing out of the tank.

Of course the tank needed to be around 1/4 full or it would also need to be drained to that level first. I doubt if they ever found anything in the mesh screen unless someone had actually placed some foreign substance in the tank itself. Of course, to prevent that, this is what locking gas caps are for. If you start out with a known clean fuel tank and use a locking gas cap then what is the worry? On a side note, one could also use an automotive paper paint filter cone like the ones you can get for free from you local body shop supply stores and place that over the nozzle of the gas hose at the station as you are filling up just in case the stations filter system has not caught everything first. Personally, I would leave the glass bowls to the early 50's Buick crowd as those actually did come with their cars. If I was judging a 57 and found a glass bowl, there would be points deducted, especially if I saw fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror.

[1957buickjim]

Rob, Thanks...you will be right there in the front seat ont the trip. The rest of the car will be filled with spare parts I might need or not for the trip, not to mentions various and sundrie fluids as well.

David, actually, the glass fuel bowl was a factory / dealer add as specified in the Product Service Bulletin, page 34. I like the looks of it, but I am also taking the correct length fuel hose, bracket and such, just in case there is any question on it. There is a photo of the installation on Page 36, with the Carter 2BBL, such as my engine, and is how mine is installed. Thanks for the heads up, though. I guess I will leave the Fuzzy Dice at home ....

[NTX5467]

I'm glad the start/re-start issue has been fixed!

As for the condensate from the end of the exhaust pipe . . . . completely normal. It can vary in amount and duration depending upon what temperature the exhaust system was prior to the start. As some newer Toyotas, it might really spit some out when you first throttle into the engine . . . some of them seem to spit out dang near a cup's worth of condensate. Most newer mufflers have a little pinhole at their rear-most bottom horizontal vertical piece just for condensate drainage (Chrysler's had them as OEM since the middle 1960s and many GM light trucks have them too).

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[1957buickjim]

Hey Rob and David,

I thought you two would enjoy a few shots from the road on the way to BCA Nationals in Charlotte...first one is the pre-requisite travel shot of my brother and I as we are about to leave on this torturous journey..the next one is the official shots of the dash with the good travel shamans for Miss Bessie, taken about an hour south of Columbus OH. You guys are riding right along with us, in spirit for sure...More to follow. Bessie ran well, loves the open road at 70mph. Getting 16.7 mpg thus far with the Carter 2BBL and running premium gas. Did get a chance to run on non-corn-o-hol for a couple of tanks. What a difference. The heat has been taking a slight toll on her going up the very hilly terrain in WV, where we have stopped for the night. Started chugging and slowing down to 30mph with pedal to the metal on going up heavy inclines. Having the car loaded to the hilt with spare parts probably doesn't help either...4 hours to drive tomorrow to Charlotte and the meet. Taking off early to beat the heat and get there before noon. Many pictures to follow when I get there. ......

[smithbrother]

In the 50's living on route-66 in Bloomington, Il. Jerry Unser, (deceased) taught me a little trick. On his dirt track stock cars he would install the GLASS SEDIMENT bulb UPSIDE DOWN. His theory was that on corners when the fuel in the tank was getting low, it would move away from the pick-up, and the sediment bowl would provide a little extra fuel.

We did a lot of top end route-66 racing, and some fuel pumps would have a hard time keeping up, and this would help in a pinch.

Dale in Indy

P.S. The Unser's used Bloomington as their summer camp a few times. Such put them closer to the dirt track action.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

JIM, don't you just love the smell of the countryside, out here on the open road? Even the reek of that dead skunk we just passed - good thing you swerved - is nostalgic for me. Summer drives, without a care - except for choosing the next meal stop. Fish n' chips or burgers? You and your bro' can choose next time. It'll be David's turn to pick up the cheque.

Happiness gauge - "F" for Feelin' Groovy

[buick man]

Jimbo: Yeah man how exciting. Document the %@#* out of this trip with photos/videos galore and then when you get back start a whole new post filled with the experience so everyone can share with your bliss. I have to duly respect and honor all of your intense devotion and energy your put into this to make things happen for you. Have a great time Jim.

Wait a minute.... what is that on your dash a road warrior hitchhiker wrapped in a sleeping bag and that's O.K. but and pair of huge fuzzy dice on steroids!!! - Someone get a rope.

P.S.: Can't tell, but is that glove box door your original metal one?

Edited June 28, 2012 by buick man (see edit history)