BillMadden Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Houston, we have a problem. My engine has leaked oil since it was reinstalled after a complete rebuild. Source is at rear of engine. Rear main seal replaced with no result. Additive has been used in oil to help identify where it is coming from. Still could not see precisely where oil was coming from using every device known to man. Have pulled transmission in order to see better. Prepared engine so it could be run in place. NOW THE DAMN THING WILL NOT LEAK! Has anyone experienced a similar situation???The leak has not dirtied up the bottom of the car, but after parked for 30 minutes there was a 5 inch puddle of oil. Leak would stop after time. The car in in the hands of a mechanic who has probably 30 years of experience with old cars and Buicks.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 BillThe following is my method:I have never had any good luck with changing the rope seal in the block with the crankshaft installed. But you can tighten the existing seal by installing a couple of strands of stiff wire like heater control wire in the groove between the block and the seal: take a 12" piece and grind a tapered point, start it into the groove and then slide a 6" section of brake line over the wire and with it tight against the block use vise grips shove the wire 1/4" at a time until it comes out the other side, then cut off flush.I was alway told not to cut a new rope seal...instead use your hands to bunch it to shorten it, then flatten it so that it fits in the groove of the cap or block. I use a large socket to form and press into the groove. The cap is trial installed and when removed only the stray fibers caught between the clamping surfaces are cut and removed. Then apply a light of coat anaerobic sealer to the clamping surface of the cap and install. For the grooves on the sided of the cap, I stuff cotton string coated with #2 Permatex into the side grooves by hammering with a suitable tool like a large nail with the tip ground flat.Also be sure the crankcase is not being pressurized from excess blowby or obstructed draft tube...even a good seal will leak.Many of the leaks are from the side grooves...the supplied seals have never worked for me. Also keep the oil just at the 'add' mark...I can keep leaks to a minimum on mine with bad seals (I can create a 10' puddle by driving uphill with a full crankcase).Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Willie is probably right but, I thought my rear main seal on the 56 was leaking for several years, when quite by accident I discovered that tightening the oil filter once a year stopped the leak. Of course I do it once a year because the car sits most of the six month winter in the Northeast. I do it at the beginning of driving season, when the engine is warm. The other thought that comes to mind is what type of gasket was used on the oil filter housing. I understand that the original seal was a metal gasket similar to a head gasket. These seals may be difficult to find and a substitute cut from gasket paper may not fit right or hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 SURVIVOR Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Check the oil pressure gauge line/fitting into block.Thread leaks,kinks in the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thank you all for your responses. More RPMs were needed to be able to locate the leak. Residual oil from the leak hid the actual source of the leak which otherwise would have been fairly easy to spot.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thank you all for your responses. More RPMs were needed to be able to locate the leak. Residual oil from the leak hid the actual source of the leak which otherwise would have been fairly easy to spot.Billso where is the leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yeah, Bill, don't leave us wondering! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Now that you are back showing off the car, are you going to tell us where the leak was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Now that you are back showing off the car, are you going to tell us where the leak was?Depends??????????.......................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Depends are supposed to stop leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 That would be one colassal Depends to wrap under the 53 V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 That would be one colassal Depends to wrap under the 53 V8. I'm sure Bill has an adequate supply and with Duck tape anythin is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Well, if everyone is not too pissed off at me for not updating this....... The PROBLEM still exists. I have lost track of the number of times a new seal has been installed. Four, I believe, using different types of seals. It seems like the problem is worse each time. I have search this forum for various solutions. The most viable I have found is an out-of-round crank journal. If anyone has any other ideas, please respond. All I'm asking for is just one itty bitty MIRACLE!!!Regardless what MrEarl has said, I have run out of Depends and my office chair is a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Have you been removing the crank to install the upper portion? Have you checked the rear main for excessive wear?...............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Have you been removing the crank to install the upper portion? Have you checked the rear main for excessive wear?...............BobBob, as mentioned in thread, this engine received a complete rebuild. It has leaked from the beginning, and seems to get worse with each different new seal???? The tranny has been dropped and as far as I know, the crank was dropped to installed the top seal. An out-of-round journal sounds like a possibility. ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If the engine received a complete rebuild then ALL the crank journals were, or should have been, miked and brought within tolerance. Did you ask your rebuilder if this was done. Most rebuilders keep a record of tolerance readings both before and after any work and if so he can tell you exactly if any out of round condition was discovered, and/or corrected. More likely if there is any out of round condition it would be the seal bearing surface rather than a journal. It would be quite easy to detect that now by dropping the pan, removing the rear main cap and indicating both the journal itself and seal bearing surface. My gut tells me it would have to be a gross condition to cause your leak. Others have had sucess by changing the top seal with the crank still in the block but more often than not it's not a complete sucess.I'm guessing, and this is pure conjecture, the original seal replacement at rebuild did not go well and the fixes attempted since then did not include the complete removal of the crank from the block. Keep in mind some drippage may be the nature of the beast. I have 5 engines with rope seals. Three are dry as a bone, one is a seeper and one a dripper. There may be an engine removal in your future........................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airy Cat Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 My 1955 Special leaks from the rear main seal and I have decided that buying motor oil and cleaning up my drip pan is a lot cheaper than pulling the engine and resealing it. The engine has 65,000 miles and has never been apart and it runs like a clock. I use 10W 30 conventional oil and was wonder if using synthetic oil would be better for this engine. I have heard that synthetic oil would cause it to leak more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 On one leaker with a newly ground crank it did turn out to be the rear sealing surface was not concentric with the main journals. If so it may be something about those cranks that makes it easy to set up incorrectly. A dial indicator on the rear main journal and the sealing surface will tell for sure. New engine with leak at the rear? It could be leaking galley plugs or cam plug. In another case the rear main rope seals supplied in the gasket set formed a hard glazed surface. Let me know if you actually used my method as outlined in post #2 so that when I post in the future I can add a disclaimer that it will not work in all cases.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Thanki all of you for your responses. I have searched this forum for all of this subject and printed out for my mechanic. He is doing all this work free gratis, standing behind his original work. I can't tell you right now what different seals he has used, but there has been several. He subbed out the machine work. I talked to the one I thought he had used, but it turned out be be someone else. I will ask him to have whoever it was, to check their records. This was done in 2007. Harold, my mechanic says he will have to either pull the engine or dismantle the front end to get the timing chain olff, etc., to drop the crank out. He lowered it some to get the top seal in, but not all the way out. I trust him implictly with the car. He has had the damn thing about as long as I have.... but I know he's not enjoying it quite as much.Thanks again for all your ideas. I have even tried to contact the original owner to ask if it had a problem before the rebuild. I'm sure it didn't but anything is worth a try. I feel like a 'steer'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only Buicks Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I am having the exact same problem on a recently rebuilt 322 for my Skylark Resto. Started with a new rope seal, leaked pretty bad if you revved it up. Removed the engine and sent back to the rebuilder (thank god he is local). Rope seal was removed and a neoprene seal installed, leak is worse now. Found a NOS Buick seal (Asbestos type) this will be the next try, should know within few days. I really hope this rsolves the problem so I can proceed with the resto. One thing the rebuilder noticed is the groove the seal fits in is not machined flat, it has an angle to it, does anyone know if this is the norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) The groove is tapered. This wedges the rope seal into the groove tightly to improve the sealing action around the sides of the rope. With all respect, Glen, if your engine guy is mystified by the shape if the seal groove he may not be experianced enough for the work at hand...............Bob Edited December 20, 2012 by Bhigdog (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only Buicks Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The groove is tapered. This wedges the rope seal into the groove tightly to improve the sealing action around the sides of the rope. With all respect, Glen, if your engine guy is mystified by the shape if the seal groove he may not be experianced enough for the work at hand...............BobBob,You may be correct, should I send it your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I've had my share of rope seal misadventures, Glenn, and I'm not trying to belittle your engine guy other than to say he might be unfamiliar with thier demanding nature. As an aside, he or you might want to run the engine in an engine stand before installation. It's easy to run cooling water through a garden hose, hook up a gallon or so temperary fuel can, and a battery. Run the engine for 20 minutes or so at about 1000-1500 RPM with a clean sheet of cardboard under the flywheel and look for those tell tale little dark spots thrown off by the flywheel. Again, no aspersions directed towards your engine guy and no I don't want to see your engine, I've had enough of my own..............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only Buicks Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 OIL LEAK PROBLEM IS RESOLVED....We tried a new modern rope seal, still leaked. We tried a new Neoprene type seal, even worse leak. The we found a NOS rope seal (Asbestos type) and wala, no more leak!Thanks for all your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks again for all your replies. I think this dead horse is about beat to death. I will make sure my guy has read all these replies. I think he may have tried an NOS seal, but not sure. He said last time he was getting a seal from some old guy to use and I assumed it was something like that anyway. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMadden Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 I believe the leak is gone. A rope type seal, soaked in oil for a day or so, finally worked. To dispel the idea the journal was out of round, a dial indicator was used and the journal passed the test. Fourth time is a charm.....I hope.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airy Cat Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 All of my Buicks leak from the rear main and have been for years. I figure that it's cheaper and easier to just buy extra oil, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest btate Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Glen, where did you find the nos asbestos main seal? I guess I will be in the market for one soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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