Emissions Control Plumbing Issues

[Guest Lee_M]

I have been on the hunt for details of what the original emissions control and/or vacuum plumbing of a 2.2l "early" block 4cyl 8v engine should look like. i have not been able to get enough info from my Blue and Red TC books (lost, but now found) to help me.

i also have just purchased, but not received, several chrysler shop manuals, including those specifically for 1988 turbo 2.2, turbo laser-specific manuals, and those for 1988 thru 1990 dealing with drivetrain diags, wire diagrams, and "Electrical, Fuel, & Emissions".

my problem, and hunt, started when i had to get emissions testing done for PA inspection. my previous residence in PA was exempt from emissions. now it is not. my unburned hydrocarbon reading was way too high even for an older car, generally held to a lower standard for pollution in general. while i have two 1989 8v "early" block engines, the two are very different in how the various vacuum lines are run, in terms of tees, and wyes, and plugged devices.

oddly i have not run into problem with either of the mitsu 6cyl models: they are both identical under the hood and both pass emissions with really low scores.

my goal is to return the plumbing of both 8v turbos to the way they were designed.

i found a fairly detailed engine compartment photo online of an 8v TC for sale, however it raised more questions than it answered: the plumbing in it looked different than either of the two i have.

does anyone know where i might find detailed photos of the engine compartment plumbing of an 8v TC? or would anyone with a "pristine" 8v be willing to post or send the detail photos i might need, in case all the manuals i have just purchased do not provide the info needed?

thanks for reading...

[Guest Jim_McNally]

Both of my 89s have an emissions routing sticker under the hood up by the windshield - driver's side - with the plumbing for this on it. Emissions controls are section 25 of the blue manual (last section in manual) - copies of the stickers are there too.

I have replaced a lot of the hoses in my 89 8V with a custom copper manifold to get rid of the leaks, but it's all connected correctly, and just passed emissions here in Denver last week. I'll help if I can.

Jim

[Guest Lee_M]

thank you jim for the offer of help.

i will review the manual again, and look at those stickers. i guess what is confusing to me are the different plastic manifold pieces in each of the TCs at which i have looked.

i will look into this again this weekend.

[Guest Lee_M]

jim,

i'd be interested in seeing a photo of that custom copper manifold you created, if you don't mind? i reviewed the manuals again, and in addition to several differences in hose connections and different "tees" and "wyes", the purge solenoid has been capped, for starters...

i also found that the PCV valve specialty rubber "tee" that connects it to the engine, manifold vacuum, and air cleaner, has become hardened, cracked and broken, with a large piece missing. i couldn't find a replacement, so i created a variation of it by cutting up a dorman emission hose, 46032, and using two of it's molded sharp "ells", a 5/8in 3-way "T" heater hose connector (koehler ent. H 583), and remaining pieces of the original tubing. the car easily passed the emissions test.

i can provide photos if anyone is interested in what this new concoction looks like.

new inspection stickers aside, however, by sunday i had a new problem. after a 10 minute or so warm-up, the engine when under load, as in accelerating up a hill, or just maintaining speed going up a hill, will seem to shutdown. RPM goes suddenly below 1000, and the car acts as if i suddenly and forcefully applied the brakes. just a quickly, the engine resumes its acceleration, shuttering several times in like fashion, until i back off the throttle enough to "coax" it gently to accelerate. after SEVERAL of these episodes, it will quiet down, to the point where i can, with gentle accelerator pedal, run normally. if i try to pass someone or "push" a hill, it may or may not, happen again.

any ideas.

[Guest Jim_McNally]

Here are some pics of the vac lines. First is overall, the rest are closeups of the lines. I used a combination of 3/8, 1/4 and capillary tubing, connected to the ports/solenoids with small rubber tubing. It duplicates all the original connections, but without the brittle plastic parts to break. The 3/16 starts with a flare fitting directly into the manifold port (visible in the third picture to the right of the fuel pressure regulator). All joints are just drilled into the larger tubing and soldered, or slip-fitted smaller into larger and then soldered.

The last pic is sideways - taken from the passenger side fender to show the connection details to the solenoids there.

You can also see where I replaced the fuel lines with stainless double braided 2500psi hose - definitely no chance for a fire there now...

Hope this helps.

Jim

[NTX5467]

Those copper cap tubes look very nice!

When all of the vacuum harnesses were done back then (Chryslers and other brands too!), they were very nice and such. With time, the rubber hardened and cracked, though. In many cases, they could be replicated in common rubber vacuum line and a good selection of rubber vacuum tee connections . . . but wouldn't have that loomed look to them.

Other than copper, there's also some plastic air brake hose lines that are used on larger trucks that might also be used. Various sizes, too. With a little heat, you can permanently form it how you want it, I understand.

I concur, every USA-spec vehicle has had the vacuum line routing AND tune-up information labels on them since the later 1970s. Most are "color-keyed" as to which line goes to which circuit. Even if you get a black and white reproduction, you can carefully follow the lines from the vacuum source to what it goes to. Knowing which items are operated by "ported vacuum" and "manifold vacuum" can help too. Chrysler's labels were usually laminated and highly-colored, unlike GM's which were single-layer and would deteriorate.

Just some thougths,

NTX5467

[Guest Lee_M]

great photos, and solution, jim. these will be a great help in restoring my plumbing to the way it was designed. the emission schematic labels, while helpful, are no substitute for photos!

thanks so much for sharing!

[89TC-16V]

you should try doing the 16 valve model and routing everything, im glad enough of my harness is still in good shape and i was able to jerry rig the rubber 3 way off the intake so i didnt get a huge vacuum leak when i had to replace my fuel pressure regulator which ment taking the radiator and fan out, take the rail out, etc etc and was a 2 day job in the end and a lot of spaghetti

[Guest Jim_McNally]

Look anything like this? (just a little upgrade I'm working on...)

Jim