Reatta As A Daily Driver?

[Guest BobbyBubba]

Hey, Barney- I'm also new to this forum- being an orphan of Ronnie's site. Long story short= My former employer- was taken over by a larger company. In the beginning- they issued us all new cars (HHR), and let us have option to personal use- they paid gas & all- $100 per month out of paycheck. All sounded great. My personal car- '88 Nissan Pulsar NX- was my BABY for the past 10 years. An accident in my own driveway- messed up the rear strut tower (Unibody) beyond repair- and I had to tearfully let it go. $5k in parts & 10 years of my labor- gone. Thankfully- I had the company car to use. Then- company "downsized" and said goodbye to 12 of us. So- here I was- Jan 3rd- no car, no job, awating Unemployment. I fevorishly searched around for what I could afford- $2,500. NOTHING. Then- about a month ago- I found my Reatta- in Hartford, CT. My friend & I drove down, I rented a UHaul TRAILER- and brought it home. I knew it needed work- but not the extent. I've been a "Shadetree" mechanic for 30+ years- and this '89 is my NEWEST car to date. I, like many other people- had never heard of a Reatta! I thought I was buying an "older Buick" that would be ez to fix up. BOY WAS I WRONG. This is practically a "clean 1 owner" car- older guy in Rancho Cordoba, CA bought it in '89. He just USED it. When he passed, his Daughter donated it to a charity- and it got bounced around, from lot to lot- for many years. Only 1 other lady owned it- but only for a short time (it needed too many repairs for her). NO rust. NO body damage. Runs "ok"- but it's been NEGLECTED BADLY. I paid $1,300 for it- and now have over $700 in parts- most waiting to be installed (me). I found Ronnie AFTER I bought the parts-(MAJOR tune ups & maintenance) 194k mi. You name the "consumable" part- I've got it. Honestly- Is this car- going to be worth my guts- or is the Reatta just for "Hobbists"- that DRIVE other cars- and don't "rely" on it for #1 ONLY transportation? Don't get me wrong= the novelty hasn't wore off yet- but I'd really like (and value) your opinion. Thank you for your time- Bobby

[Barney Eaton]

Cars are cars......... some people see them only as transportation and others actually seek out vehicles that preform well, look good and offer all the driver comforts. Sometimes you all that in one vehicle.

The Reatta was designed as a personal car...... it was never called a sports car and was the most expensive vehicle Buick made each year it was offered. There was an early plan to make it a basic car but sometime during the development, they threw all the options on as base equipment. In 1988 & 89 the only extra cost options were the 16 way seat at $695 and the sunroof appeared about half way thru the '88 production as an option.

In 1990 and 91 they added the single disc CD player to the option list. Also the Reatta was no fly-weight, it weighed a few more pounds than a Park Avenue.

With all this said, the Reatta makes a great drivers car. it handles well at highway speeds, get decent gas milage and for it age has a full content of options.

I guess to answer your question....... it can be driven or collected. I suggest you start with a driver and some day you may find a better, low mileage Reatta that you can upgrade to or buy to use as your better or show car. Have fun with the Reatta and enjoy.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

I use my Reattas as a daily driver year round. The Black is the winter car and is driven from Nov. 1 to May 1. The Red has about 190,000 miles on it, the Black 235k on the body about 100k less on the engine/tranny.

When I bought my Red I had no history of repairs from the P.O. so I took the car to my mechanic friend with a list of what I wanted done. After doing plugs,wires, fuel filter, gaskets, Trans modulator valve, IAC, belts, hoses, radiator/tranny/brake fluid flush and fill, then power steering pump, struts, tires, brakes and rotors all the way around I was good. Then off for paint, sunroof, back for carpet I was done. 70,000 miles later not much other then brakes, tires, soon to be struts car has been great.

The Black has been much cheaper as I bought it for what it was to be... a winter car. I didn't have to stick much in it as P.O. two owners ago painted it and swapped the engine/tranny. The last P.O. did much of the other work that I did on the Red when I bought it. Other then the headlight issue I had [tracked down to a bad relay socket in the fuse/relay area] this car too has proved to be a dependable car.

I have had the occaisional problem with my cars, but I think the advantage is to build an inventory of back up parts. When a component goes out, I simply go in my basement and pull out a previously tested part and install it.

I am pretty confident that once you get past the neglected maintanence you will have a good car. The big thing about this car is the drive train. It is one of the best that Buick came out with.

If you like the car and you can see that it is mostly neglected maintanence that you have to do I think you are doing good.

Remember that this forum offers great advice and for a car of its age many parts you need are still available at a pretty low cost.

Sorry to steal this post. Please go back to your questions/answers regarding freon...

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Guest Corvanti]

I purchased my reatta in march this year to be a driver, with limited finances, thanks to medical issues and the ex-Mrs. Corvanti that left 3 days before last Christmas...

mine had 178K miles on her when i found her, but was the "coolest" looking car i could find for under $2K. problems started the afternoon i bought her. (i did take it on about a 15 mile test drive before buying).

i found this web site, and have fixed most of the problems. i couldn't have done it without the help found here...

it's running like a "champ" now! just have to repair things like speakers, etc. i'm not worried about driving it anywhere around town.

the thing to remember is: mine is a 23 year old car ('89), with a primitive 'puter (by today's standards), and something will fail at sometime. not necessarily 'puter related.

i hope to keep her for quite awhile, and restore her to full glory. but can't go without a "back-up" vehicle. BTDT. gotta have at least a "beater" to go get parts.

just my $0.02

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Guest Richard D]

I drive my 1990 with 146,000 + miles everyday. Only left me stranded once, belt came off and took out crankshaft position sensor. Which was really my fault for not changing the belt. Biggest expense was new A/C compressor, I now plan on driving it to Octoberfest in Silver Springs with just an oil and tranny fluid /filter change. Once you get the lack of maintinence problems fixed you should be able to make it your daily driver.

My 2 cents

Richard

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[padgett]

Agree my white 'vert is my DD, probably drive it more than the Heap. OTOH I probably have about $7k in it, mailnly purchase/paint/top/wheels/tires. Do need to replace the CD (have one just a pain to change and being hearing impaired I rarely turn on).

I suspect any Reatta is going to have at least $5k in it before is right - can either pay up front or over time. This is probably getting worse as cars age. Am fortunate to live where cars do not rust.

Sad to say but if you want an inexpensive reliable car, it is probably a Toyota or Honda with under 100k miles.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[NCReatta]

Three words. Flush your brakes. Do that before you do much else and you'll thank me later.

If the fluid hasn't been flushed in the past 5 years, you can start to gum up important parts.

I alternate my DD. Either my red convertible or my white '89 coupe. Both drive nicely. '89 doesn't have A/C, so it's a little hot in the summer, but that's what the vert is for.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Guest BobbyBubba]

THANK YOU so much- everyone- for your kind words of encouragement & sound advice. Thanx- for making this a "Thread".

[rjfranken]

That's why I have more than one. My insurance allows me to take one off and put another back on for a small price.

i wish I had a decend garage to fix them all.

[Guest jimmyk]

My '89 red/gray is my daily driver. Bought for $1000 needed a fuel tank to drive home, an additional $200. 93,000 miles, needs about another $1000 to make perfect. But has been reliable & fun. I wanted something different and cruise Craigslist for a few weeks before finding this Reatta. I was looking for a replacement for my '64 Corvair DD that was just plain falling apart.

[Barney Eaton]

One thing I forgot in my June post......... the Reatta shares a lot of parts with the Riviera. Most of the stuff you cannot see is shared.

This is a big help when looking for parts, If you have a service manual, the first thing you notice the Riviera and Reatta share the same service manual, that should be a clue.

Sometime it helps when you are looking for a part, tell the guy behind the counter it is for a Riviera and maybe he can find it.

[Guest RaverReatta]

My red 1990 coupe is about to be a DD, another fortunate thing about the Reatta is that it has the 3800 in it. There were a lot of cars with that engine and parts are easy to come by (aside from body), so therefore upkeep of the engine will not be uber expensive. Go for it!

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Hey, Barney- I'm also new to this forum- being an orphan of Ronnie's site. Long story short= My former employer- was taken over by a larger company. In the beginning- they issued us all new cars (HHR), and let us have option to personal use- they paid gas & all- $100 per month out of paycheck. All sounded great. My personal car- '88 Nissan Pulsar NX- was my BABY for the past 10 years. An accident in my own driveway- messed up the rear strut tower (Unibody) beyond repair- and I had to tearfully let it go. $5k in parts & 10 years of my labor- gone. Thankfully- I had the company car to use. Then- company "downsized" and said goodbye to 12 of us. So- here I was- Jan 3rd- no car, no job, awating Unemployment. I fevorishly searched around for what I could afford- $2,500. NOTHING. Then- about a month ago- I found my Reatta- in Hartford, CT. My friend & I drove down, I rented a UHaul TRAILER- and brought it home. I knew it needed work- but not the extent. I've been a "Shadetree" mechanic for 30+ years- and this '89 is my NEWEST car to date. I, like many other people- had never heard of a Reatta! I thought I was buying an "older Buick" that would be ez to fix up. BOY WAS I WRONG. This is practically a "clean 1 owner" car- older guy in Rancho Cordoba, CA bought it in '89. He just USED it. When he passed, his Daughter donated it to a charity- and it got bounced around, from lot to lot- for many years. Only 1 other lady owned it- but only for a short time (it needed too many repairs for her). NO rust. NO body damage. Runs "ok"- but it's been NEGLECTED BADLY. I paid $1,300 for it- and now have over $700 in parts- most waiting to be installed (me). I found Ronnie AFTER I bought the parts-(MAJOR tune ups & maintenance) 194k mi. You name the "consumable" part- I've got it. Honestly- Is this car- going to be worth my guts- or is the Reatta just for "Hobbists"- that DRIVE other cars- and don't "rely" on it for #1 ONLY transportation? Don't get me wrong= the novelty hasn't wore off yet- but I'd really like (and value) your opinion. Thank you for your time- Bobby

I've had quite a few cars over the years and none of them have close to the dependability of my Toyota pickup with the 22RE. I have 300k on it and I haven't even replaced the water pump yet.

I love my Reatta but for DD duties NOTHING beats a Toyota pickup!

Kit

[Bushwack]

What is the 22RE? I know of the 2.4 ltr 22R. Is this the same engine but different plumbing for a pick-up?

FWIW, I had my 22R in my first car (1981 Celica lift back). I maintained the car well and also abused the heck out of the car. It still gave me 185,000+ miles of happy motoring. And the memories I made in with the back seats down in that lift back were....

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

What is the 22RE? I know of the 2.4 ltr 22R. Is this the same engine but different plumbing for a pick-up?

FWIW, I had my 22R in my first car (1981 Celica lift back). I maintained the car well and also abused the heck out of the car. It still gave me 185,000+ miles of happy motoring. And the memories I made in with the back seats down in that lift back were....

We are talking about the same engine. When Toyota added fuel injection they added an "E" to indicate the change from carburation to EFI. I used to think my truck was a rare case (of having such high mileage) but after talking with other 22R/22RE owners, MANY reported 300K, 400K & even 450K miles!

Kit

[Guest stschreib]

13 months ago I bought my 1990 coupe for my oldest son to use a daily driver...or kinda anyway. He wanted a car up in college away from home. Actually except for a few minor things to fix, The car ran great. Now this year it has broken down on him and me twice and I doubt whether to send him back up to college with it next month. I don't want it breaking down in another state several hours away from home and my son not nowing what to do. Big decission coming up.

[Ronnie]

13 months ago I bought my 1990 coupe for my oldest son to use a daily driver...or kinda anyway. He wanted a car up in college away from home. Actually except for a few minor things to fix, The car ran great. Now this year it has broken down on him and me twice and I doubt whether to send him back up to college with it next month. I don't want it breaking down in another state several hours away from home and my son not nowing what to do. Big decission coming up.

Daily driver to me means driving near home. Your big decision coming up would be an easy one for me. If it could be avoided I would never send my daughter, (don't have a son), hours away in a high mileage Reatta. I see in one of your other posts that your Reatta has over 196k on it. That is a lot of miles for any car, especially a 20+ year old Reatta, that you need to be be reliable for an extended period in another state. I think you have picked the wrong car to send your kid off to college in. Just my opinion.

[handmedownreatta]

mine has become my daily driver because of the thunderstorm every evening and the original top on my camaro.lol.its a very comfortable car to drive though my ac is lacking.everyday when i get off work the interior is between 140 and 160 degrees.leaving the sunroof at the first stop dosn't seem to matter.

[Ronnie]

mine has become my daily driver because of the thunderstorm every evening and the original top on my camaro.lol.its a very comfortable car to drive though my ac is lacking.everyday when i get off work the interior is between 140 and 160 degrees.leaving the sunroof at the first stop dosn't seem to matter.

I'll bet you are having trouble with the low temp AC sensor. My AC would not cool, even though the system seemed to have proper amount of freon and was working properly. Check my website for testing instructions. (Thanks to Mc_Reatta for the instructions)

[Guest stschreib]

unfortunately.... I already own 4 other vehicles and I was on a small budget... I paid $500.00 for the car.... Bought it from a friend of a friend. Yes, I was concerned about the high mileage (now 196K). If I get the car running right, I might comute with the reatta (at least for awhile) and send my son back up to college with my car. My commute is about 40 mins each way...still a little far but at least in the same state...lol

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

13 months ago I bought my 1990 coupe for my oldest son to use a daily driver...or kinda anyway. He wanted a car up in college away from home. Actually except for a few minor things to fix, The car ran great. Now this year it has broken down on him and me twice and I doubt whether to send him back up to college with it next month. I don't want it breaking down in another state several hours away from home and my son not nowing what to do. Big decission coming up.

What "broke down"

What I would worry about if I wanted reasonable reliability in a high mileage Reatta with a not to handy an operator if condition is not known:

transmission

fuel pump

ICM

crank sensor

pass key system

accumulator and flush

I think it could be run and limped home if those items have been kept up.

If you don't know the history of those items, keep it close to home.

Anyone have any other ideas?

[Ronnie]

You covered the bases pretty well Mc. I would probably add battery and starter to the list of items that can leave you stranded.

[handmedownreatta]

I'll bet you are having trouble with the low temp AC sensor. My AC would not cool, even though the system seemed to have proper amount of freon and was working properly. Check my website for testing instructions. (Thanks to Mc_Reatta for the instructions)

the ac gets down to 60 degrees at the vent but never gets the car cool.part of the problem is im too cheap to pay a professional to recharge it.i just throw a new can of 134 in it when the minimum temp gets too high.i have a set of harbor freight guages but don't know how to use them.

[Guest Corvanti]

the ac gets down to 60 degrees at the vent but never gets the car cool.part of the problem is im too cheap to pay a professional to recharge it.i just throw a new can of 134 in it when the minimum temp gets too high.i have a set of harbor freight guages but don't know how to use them.

if you can pop a can of 134a on the correct inlet, you can at least put the low pressure gauge from HF on there - "IF" the gauge is for 134a fittings - not R12 - they are different...

otherwise, you can get a handheld low pressure gauge from your local "flaps" for cheap. some cans of 134a come with it.

if the low pressure is near 45psi or more, at your current temp of 60, you'll need to have it serviced, if you can't do it yourself. but i'd bet if the compressor, etc. is working ok, your low pressure is less than 25psi...

hope this helps!

[handmedownreatta]

it was converted to 134 by the buick dealer.they installed the 134 inlet at the front drivers side.i assume the high side is the one next to the windshield on the drivers side but they didn't install a 134 fitting there.i have one i could install there from a conversion kit i bought years ago.i use the guages to add 134 to the low side but i don't know how to read the guages.i just add freon til the inside temp gets low enough.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

it was converted to 134 by the buick dealer.they installed the 134 inlet at the front drivers side.i assume the high side is the one next to the windshield on the drivers side but they didn't install a 134 fitting there.i have one i could install there from a conversion kit i bought years ago.i use the guages to add 134 to the low side but i don't know how to read the guages.i just add freon til the inside temp gets low enough.

For your purposes, just the low pressure gauge is needed. Close the two valves on either side of the gauge manifold and attach low pressure blue hose to the low side port on the accumulator that you have added freon to in the past. Make sure to tighten all the hose connections both at the gauge end and the end that will attach to the car.

Find the ring scale on the low pressure gauge that is for reading in psi. I believe it will be the innermost ring in black if you have the same gauge I'm thinking of.

Listen for leaking freon at this point and retighten all the connections if any leaking is detected. If you can't stop a leak, remove the hose from the accumulator before much freon is lost and examine the suspect connection for a damaged or missing seal and repair before attempting again.

The gauge should now display the static pressure in the system. Should be around 100 psi, but may be between 70 and 120psi in a system that is working.

Lay or hang the gauges in a safe place and route the hoses safely so that they are clear of the radiator fan etc.

Start the car and set the AC to Max Cool.

Return to the gauges and watch the needle on the low side gauge. Most likely it will be jumping from a lower reading up towards the static pressure reading as the compressor cycles in and out as you hear the clutch click in and out.

What your looking for is a steady gauge reading at about 34 psi with the car at a fast idle in Max AC mode. If the needle is contentiously cycling from low to high (~10 to ~70 psi) you need to add freon until the cycling stops and the gauge reads around 34 psi. If the gauge reads steady above ~40 psi then you need to bleed off some freon by cracking the valve on the left side of your gauge set which will vent some pressure out thru the yellow filler hose.

The exact psi reading to shoot for is a black art as it depends on the ambient temp, the engine RPMs, the airflow thru the condenser, humidity, and other factors. But if it is in a zone between 32 and 40 psi you are in the right neighborhood for good performance. I shoot for that steady 34 psi reading before moving inside the car and monitoring the low side temperature reading (BD28) in the BCM Data mode of diagnostics and fine tuning by shooting for a 0 or -1 degree steady reading at ~ 1200 RPM. This can be adjusted to set your AC performance for the type of driving you do most, whether it's low speed stop and go around town, or mostly high speed cruising. What you would be looking for here is a steady reading at 0 degrees or so at your selected RPM reading. If the charge is too low the temp will drop below -1 degrees which will cycle the compressor off which will then cause the temp to climb to about +8 degrees where the compressor kicks in again and the temp drops. This cycling just continues. If the charge is too high, the temperature reading will be steady, but above the magic 0 degrees value which means the evaporator coils are just at the freezing point of water which indicates that it is as cold as possible without risking freezing over.

Hope this helps you understand at least what the low side gauge can do for you.

[Ronnie]

If the pressure is in the correct range and the compressor is cycling before a cool vent temperature is reached, the low temp sensor may be defective. If defective it will send a false BD28 reading to the BCM causing it to cycle the compressor before the evaporator gets cool enough. There is a thread here on the forum somewhere about it. I thought I had done a tutorial on testing the sensor but I can't find it on my website. Maybe Mc can give more details about the sensor and how to test it.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I thought you had it on you site somewhere too Ronnie, but I don't see it either.

The computers in our Reattas use temperature to control any number of functions for the engine and body so a malfunctioning sensor could be affecting performance, but not set a trouble code or report an out of range condition in diagnostics. Heck, even the MAF sensor is really a very sophisticated temperature sensor sensing the temperature loss of a heated wire in the air flow.

So how do you know if all these sensors are working correctly?

Just catch them at a time when they should all be reporting ambient temperature to the ECM / BCM and compare the readings. If any of them are more than a degree or two off from the rest you can be suspicious that it is reading correctly.

So catch your car after it has been parked for many hours and out of direct sunlight like early in the AM or while parked overnight in a dark garage.

Enter diagnostics mode ECM Data and record the temperature readings for:

ED04 Coolant

ED23 Intake Air

then switch to BCM Data mode and record

BD21 Coolant again

BD25 Interior

BD26 Outside

BD27 AC High Side

BD28 AC Low Side

BD32 Sunload

If any reading more than a couple of degrees off from the pack I'd check and clean the connector to the sensor and see if it's OK. If an extreme temp limit is displayed (usually -40 or +151) then the wiring from the computer to the sensor is suspect. If these efforts don't bring it back into line the consider replacing it.

The AC temp sensors aren't available new anymore so some used ones from a donor GM vehicle will have to be found. (Hi and Low side is the same part, used in many high end GM cars of the era)

The interior and sunload sensors are under the dash pad and like the photocell, a PITA to get to. The outside temp sensor is low up in front of the radiator I believe. Not sure about availability of these.

The engine side temp sensors should be available at most FLAPS. Intake Air is on the underside of the air filter box, the coolant one high on the drivers side of the block a little to the front of the coolant pipes to the throttle body.

Ronnie, you may want to show a link to any tutorial you create from this both under your 'Computers and Sensors' and 'Heat and AC System' sections.

[Ronnie]

Good job on the writeup Mc. It's on my website now. I made a few changes to your text. Hope you approve.

A/C Temp Sensor Troubleshooting

Good idea on posting in multiple categories. I did as you suggested. I need to do that with some other tutorials.

[padgett]

One element missing is that the a/c really needs a good airflow through the condenser to work properly. Have a squirrel cage blower I put in front of the grill to set up an a/c and it makes a noticable difference in the vent temperature. Also you need the engine running above 1500 rpm to get max cool.

[handmedownreatta]

For your purposes, just the low pressure gauge is needed. Close the two valves on either side of the gauge manifold and attach low pressure blue hose to the low side port on the accumulator that you have added freon to in the past. Make sure to tighten all the hose connections both at the gauge end and the end that will attach to the car.

Find the ring scale on the low pressure gauge that is for reading in psi. I believe it will be the innermost ring in black if you have the same gauge I'm thinking of.

Listen for leaking freon at this point and retighten all the connections if any leaking is detected. If you can't stop a leak, remove the hose from the accumulator before much freon is lost and examine the suspect connection for a damaged or missing seal and repair before attempting again.

The gauge should now display the static pressure in the system. Should be around 100 psi, but may be between 70 and 120psi in a system that is working.

Lay or hang the gauges in a safe place and route the hoses safely so that they are clear of the radiator fan etc.

Start the car and set the AC to Max Cool.

Return to the gauges and watch the needle on the low side gauge. Most likely it will be jumping from a lower reading up towards the static pressure reading as the compressor cycles in and out as you hear the clutch click in and out.

What your looking for is a steady gauge reading at about 34 psi with the car at a fast idle in Max AC mode. If the needle is contentiously cycling from low to high (~10 to ~70 psi) you need to add freon until the cycling stops and the gauge reads around 34 psi. If the gauge reads steady above ~40 psi then you need to bleed off some freon by cracking the valve on the left side of your gauge set which will vent some pressure out thru the yellow filler hose.

The exact psi reading to shoot for is a black art as it depends on the ambient temp, the engine RPMs, the airflow thru the condenser, humidity, and other factors. But if it is in a zone between 32 and 40 psi you are in the right neighborhood for good performance. I shoot for that steady 34 psi reading before moving inside the car and monitoring the low side temperature reading (BD28) in the BCM Data mode of diagnostics and fine tuning by shooting for a 0 or -1 degree steady reading at ~ 1200 RPM. This can be adjusted to set your AC performance for the type of driving you do most, whether it's low speed stop and go around town, or mostly high speed cruising. What you would be looking for here is a steady reading at 0 degrees or so at your selected RPM reading. If the charge is too low the temp will drop below -1 degrees which will cycle the compressor off which will then cause the temp to climb to about +8 degrees where the compressor kicks in again and the temp drops. This cycling just continues. If the charge is too high, the temperature reading will be steady, but above the magic 0 degrees value which means the evaporator coils are just at the freezing point of water which indicates that it is as cold as possible without risking freezing over.

Hope this helps you understand at least what the low side gauge can do for you.

thanks for posting this.ive been too busy to try it yet.