1937 Dodge D5 questions (with some '41 questions also)

[Guest Kelsey]

OK, just got the dash out.. Question:

On the panel light switch .. I can not fo rthe life of me figure out how to get the switch assy out of the dash..

I can stick alittle scribe in and get the knob off, but there is no nut on the back side and the friont side has this little chrome cover that I can not get to move.. I suspect that there is a nut under this chrome piece, but I think I will ruin it to get it off...

Is there some "trick" to getting this type of switch out??

HELP!

[jpage]

Again.I'm not familiar with '37 gauges ,but does the chrome nut have a slot in it's face? If it does it should unscrew with a regular screwdriver, then you can remove the switch.

[Guest Kelsey]

Again.I'm not familiar with '37 gauges ,but does the chrome nut have a slot in it's face? If it does it should unscrew with a regular screwdriver, then you can remove the switch.

Yes, there is a slot but the switch arm is in there so you can not use a screwdriver ..

[1936 D2]

The "switch arm" is supposed to come out of the switch with the knob still attached. At least that is the way the setup works on the '36 Dodge. There is a small hole in the side of the switch body that you can push a stiff wire (like thin coat hangar wire) into that will then release the shaft from the interior of the switch. Pull it straight out the front. Then you can easily unscrew the bezel from the front.

The picture below is of a headlight switch for '36, but you can see the small hole on the side that I am referring to. It works the same way on this switch.

Edited June 14, 2012 by 1936 D2
added photo (see edit history)

[Guest Kelsey]

The "switch arm" is supposed to come out of the switch with the knob still attached. At least that is the way the setup works on the '36 Dodge. There is a small hole in the side of the switch body that you can push a stiff wire (like thin coat hangar wire) into that will then release the shaft from the interior of the switch. Pull it straight out the front. Then you can easily unscrew the bezel from the front.

The picture below is of a headlight switch for '36, but you can see the small hole on the side that I am referring to. It works the same way on this switch.

OK. that make more sense.. Thanks for the insight..

[1936 D2]

Let us know if they work that way. I'm always curious about what is different in the years either side of '36. Thanks!

[Guest Kelsey]

Ok it appears that I only have 3 orignal hub caps and 2 odd balls..

So, I am hoping that somebody on here can help me complete at least 1 set..

Pleas let me know if you have any of the pictured hubcaps for sale and in good shape.

the 1st pic is the one I have 3 of and I THINK are original

[1936 D2]

Yup. The first shot is the correct cap for you. See the below photo of an original 37 Dodge.

Be sure to give measurements to people when asking for them to help find one. Many of the mid 30's Dodge hubcaps are similar but different. You need overall diameter - rear mounting diameter - height of cap when laying flat and also mention how it clips onto the wheel. Are the clips on the cap or on the wheel, etc.

Good luck with the hunt. (I do not have a '37 cap in my stuff. Sorry.)

[Guest Kelsey]

OK, Next "can't find" piece.. Not a biggy but needs to have...

Fuel tank had cloth padding under the straps.. I would prefer rubber over cloth but they need to be very thin.. I checked Metro with nothing that small..

I am sure you guys have tackled this area in your restores.. What did ya use for insulation under the metal straps?

I am going to talk to a guy that knows about a few things today (locally) I am confused on the windshield stainless trim pieces.. They are in great shape but I am thinking I might want to chrom the entire front windshield frame..(what ya think on that idea??) and if I chrome this, I need to get this trim moulding removed and it seems like it could easily get damaged when removing and reinstalling it.. Thoughts... Same with the head light bucket outer moulding.. should I remove this or just paint around it?

Thanks again

[jpage]

I would recommend using the correct material under the straps. It's a 1/16 flat woven material available in lengths at Restoration Specialties. The rubber would probably work but it's hard to find a live rubber strip 1/16 in. thick! Don't use foam rubber! I probably would forego plating the w/s frame.. Two reasons... it's not correct and you may not get the trim back on due to the thickness of the chrome. It can also make it harder to get the glass back in because rechromed channels have a tendency to be narrower and irregular(again chrome thickness) thus making it hard to fit the correct size glass tape so the glass may be tight in some spots and loose in others-- good way to break the new glass! If you are careful in removing the stainless trim ,you should not have a problem remounting it later! I would think it best to LIGHTLY paint the edge of the frame,install the trim ,mask the trim and then paint the entire frame. I would also suggest first installing the glass also and carefully masking the setting tape and glass and painting the whole thing as a unit. It can be a bear getting the glass back in the frame,especially with new paint! I did that on my Model"A" RP frame and worked well! As far as the headlamp ,if the trim is nice and the buckets are in good condition,I would try to paint around it so as not to bend that trim. It's hard to find good trim,but again,if you're careful,you should be able to get it off with out too much trouble or damage. I noticed on my '36 ,that afer I got the trim off, the lamp was first primed and then the trim was installed prior to painting!

[Guest Kelsey]

I would recommend using the correct material under the straps. It's a 1/16 flat woven material available in lengths at Restoration Specialties. The rubber would probably work but it's hard to find a live rubber strip 1/16 in. thick! Don't use foam rubber! I probably would forego plating the w/s frame.. Two reasons... it's not correct and you may not get the trim back on due to the thickness of the chrome. It can also make it harder to get the glass back in because rechromed channels have a tendency to be narrower and irregular(again chrome thickness) thus making it hard to fit the correct size glass tape so the glass may be tight in some spots and loose in others-- good way to break the new glass! If you are careful in removing the stainless trim ,you should not have a problem remounting it later! I would think it best to LIGHTLY paint the edge of the frame,install the trim ,mask the trim and then paint the entire frame. I would also suggest first installing the glass also and carefully masking the setting tape and glass and painting the whole thing as a unit. It can be a bear getting the glass back in the frame,especially with new paint! I did that on my Model"A" RP frame and worked well! As far as the headlamp ,if the trim is nice and the buckets are in good condition,I would try to paint around it so as not to bend that trim. It's hard to find good trim,but again,if you're careful,you should be able to get it off with out too much trouble or damage. I noticed on my '36 ,that afer I got the trim off, the lamp was first primed and then the trim was installed prior to painting!

Great points... The trim around the windshield and the buckets is perfect.. My main concern on the W/S chroming is that the frame is not so rigid and I THINK any flexing will crack chrome... Thoughts??

Here is the link for the Rubber place... I am going to use rubber under the floorboards as well.. These guys have some great stuff http://www.rubbersheetroll.com/rubber-roll.htm

I have found some 1/16" and even 1/32" rubber strips.. But I am not opposed to running the original wovwn fabric.. I just di dnot see it in the Restoration Sepcialties catalogue.. What is the stuff called in their catalogue??

Thanks again for al lthe help and advice.. I have already annoyed the Guy at Roberts immensely with questions on the parts being correct.. Hopefully, I do not annoy you guys too much with my questions..

I plan on having the car finished before NOV this year.. so , things are moving very fast and I just do not want to make a bad decision that I will regret later

Edited June 15, 2012 by Kelsey (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

... Fuel tank had cloth padding under the straps.. I would prefer rubber over cloth but they need to be very thin.. I checked Metro with nothing that small..

I am sure you guys have tackled this area in your restores.. What did ya use for insulation under the metal straps?

I used white canvas carefully cut into strips along the weave lines. The edges were zigzag stitched to help prevent unraveling over time. Cheap and easy. Very much like the original material. If it was good enough then, should be really good now being new!

... I am confused on the windshield stainless trim pieces.. They are in great shape but I am thinking I might want to chrom the entire front windshield frame..(what ya think on that idea??) and if I chrome this, I need to get this trim moulding removed and it seems like it could easily get damaged when removing and reinstalling it.. Thoughts... Same with the head light bucket outer moulding.. should I remove this or just paint around it?...

I think the windshield frame was painted to help prevent glare from the sun catching the frame and getting into the driver's eyes. The black paint helped blend the color into the gasket that shows anyway. On the stainless trim strip - I did not remove that on my windshield. I just taped it off and repainted the frame black like it was. Also, the thickness of the added chrome may cause trouble getting the gasket in place in its grooves. Also depends on how much rust you have to deal with along the bottom edge or corners of the frame.

But the trim on the head lamps - I did remove that. I used a very flexible blade putty knife that would line up with the edge of the trim. The putty knife was about 3" wide at the tip. The blade thickness matched up with the trim thickness. I placed the putty knife over the bucket and pushed the blade edge evenly up to the trim edge. I was tapping it with a hard rubber mallet. I moved the blade a bit around the bucket on each tap. Eventually the trim ring came off without getting bent! Patience is the word here! Little bits at a time! Also, having a helper to hold the bucket still as you work the blade and mallet is a wise idea. I was sitting in a chair and the bucket was on my legs to make a soft "holder" for the bucket, yet strong enough to support it during the tapping.

[Guest Kelsey]

OK, Latest part I can't find...

My windows (glass) have a setting channel inside the rails.. I ordered the channel from metro (universal) and the base is 3/8" wide and I need 11/32" wide.. Sounds like not a big deal, but enough to stop it from working..

I have checked online and can not find this channel... There is a glazing channel that will work except it has a "lip" on it tha t I do not care for.. Here is the link to it.. http://www.intropc.com/tools/image-resize.aspx?image=AV539_11810.gif

So, question is.. who has this channel without the lip... Also it needs to be only 3/8" deep but the deeper rubber is OK with me..

man, this project just never runs out of problems

Edited June 22, 2012 by Kelsey (see edit history)

[Guest Kelsey]

I have an email into these guys...Gasket, Molding, Lathe Cutting, Extrusions, Precision Waterjet Cutting at West Coast Gasket but I suspect they will not sell such a small quantity... But one can hope..

[1936 D2]

OK, Latest part I can't find...

My windows (glass) have a setting channel inside the rails.. I ordered the channel from metro (universal) and the base is 3/8" wide and I need 11/32" wide.. Sounds like not a big deal, but enough to stop it from working..

I have checked online and can not find this channel... There is a glazing channel that will work except it has a "lip" on it tha t I do not care for.. Here is the link to it.. http://www.intropc.com/tools/image-resize.aspx?image=AV539_11810.gif

So, question is.. who has this channel without the lip... Also it needs to be only 3/8" deep but the deeper rubber is OK with me..

man, this project just never runs out of problems

Looks like you may be trying to use a thicker glass than "normal" for the side glass? Everything I can find shows 1/4" glass for 1930 to 1940. That would then require this part (from "Steele") for the side glass channel:

1930-40 Weatherstrip, side window,double-lip seal type. Used as filler

for 1/4" glass in metal carrier channel.

70-0241-57 . . . . . . . $4.10/ft.

If you are doing something different than 1/4" glass you may have to continue the hunt like you are progressing with above. Such fun, 'eh?

[Guest Kelsey]

Looks like you may be trying to use a thicker glass than "normal" for the side glass? Everything I can find shows 1/4" glass for 1930 to 1940. That would then require this part (from "Steele") for the side glass channel:

1930-40 Weatherstrip, side window,double-lip seal type. Used as filler

for 1/4" glass in metal carrier channel.

70-0241-57 . . . . . . . $4.10/ft.

If you are doing something different than 1/4" glass you may have to continue the hunt like you are progressing with above. Such fun, 'eh?

No 1/4" glass.. the 3/8" part is the part that causing me grief... I need 11/32" for base width..

This is the channel that goes on the glass edges and sits inthe window frame.. not. the sealing channel.. The 3/8" width will not go in my frame channel.. it must be .343" or even a tad less..

[jpage]

Kelsy.check with Restoration Specialties, they have glass setting tape in many thicknesses. Don't fool with the preformed channels as most of the time they don't work. Generaly,riser channels measure about 5/16 wide,the glass is usually 1/4 in.(std) but sometimes the glass is 3/16 in. The difference between the channel width and the glass thickness is the size of tape you need. Most often .062 in. This material is also available at most good glass shops. You need a slight tight fit as friction only holds the glass! The woven material for the tank straps is called flat hoodlace and comes in a 1/16 in.thickness in several widths. It's listed in RS's catalog under hood lacing. Most of the above channels are really for "captured glass"; glass that is sandwiched between a channel and a moulding of some sort.

[Guest Kelsey]

Kelsy.check with Restoration Specialties, they have glass setting tape in many thicknesses. Don't fool with the preformed channels as most of the time they don't work. Generaly,riser channels measure about 5/16 wide,the glass is usually 1/4 in.(std) but sometimes the glass is 3/16 in. The difference between the channel width and the glass thickness is the size of tape you need. Most often .062 in. This material is also available at most good glass shops. You need a slight tight fit as friction only holds the glass! The woven material for the tank straps is called flat hoodlace and comes in a 1/16 in.thickness in several widths. It's listed in RS's catalog under hood lacing. Most of the above channels are really for "captured glass"; glass that is sandwiched between a channel and a moulding of some sort.

great idea... Setting tape.. got some ordered 3/64" for mine

Now, tryin to replace the propellor shaft U joint boots and the trunion pins will simply not come out so I can remove the housing in order to slide on the new boot?.. Are these pins pressed in and require a press to remove?

Anybody make a split boot so as to not have to remove the trunion pin to change the boot?

Edited June 22, 2012 by Kelsey (see edit history)

[ply33]

great idea... Setting tape.. got some ordered 3/64" for mine

Now, tryin to replace the propellor shaft U joint boots and the trunion pins will simply not come out so I can remove the housing in order to slide on the new boot?.. Are these pins pressed in and require a press to remove?

Anybody make a split boot so as to not have to remove the trunion pin to change the boot?

The trunnion pins are pressed in. And they need to be centered very closely so if you get them pressed out make sure you get them back accurately.

There is a way shown in the factory service manual for installing new rubber boots without removing the pins or housings. You grease up the boots to make them slippery, pull them over the pin and then through the inside of the housing. I guess it would work with fresh rubber. But most the boots I tried it with tore. I think the boots you get nowadays are all old stock and ready to fail. I had two I finally got on and then let the drive shaft sit for a month or two before installing it. When I went to install it I noticed the rubber was already cracked and failing.

They make lace up leather boots for that application too. There are at least two kinds and I was able to get some, from Roberts I think, that had an inner grease retaining cone that with snap closure under the outer dust shield part. Pretty easy to install and have been working fine for a couple of years now.

[Guest Kelsey]

The trunnion pins are pressed in. And they need to be centered very closely so if you get them pressed out make sure you get them back accurately.

There is a way shown in the factory service manual for installing new rubber boots without removing the pins or housings. You grease up the boots to make them slippery, pull them over the pin and then through the inside of the housing. I guess it would work with fresh rubber. But most the boots I tried it with tore. I think the boots you get nowadays are all old stock and ready to fail. I had two I finally got on and then let the drive shaft sit for a month or two before installing it. When I went to install it I noticed the rubber was already cracked and failing.

They make lace up leather boots for that application too. There are at least two kinds and I was able to get some, from Roberts I think, that had an inner grease retaining cone that with snap closure under the outer dust shield part. Pretty easy to install and have been working fine for a couple of years now.

Went to my press and TRIED to press out the pins.. They would not even budge with a lotof pressure.. so, I was uncomfortable applying any more pressure (trust me, it was already substantial) so.. bagged that idea.. figured I would ruin the shaft if I continued..

Tried your slippery method with NEW (Not NOS) boots from Robert.. they tore.. this would be a chore to make happen without tearing them..

Look slike I am on the hunt for some leather laced boots.. I do not see them in Roberts catalogue.. Can you think where you mayhave gotten them?

Thanks

[ply33]

Looks like I am on the hunt for some leather laced boots.. I do not see them in Roberts catalogue.. Can you think where you mayhave gotten them?

Thanks

Looking at Plymouth Parts Interchange: Group 16 — Prop. Shaft & Universal Joints I probably got them at Mitchell's since I haven't done business with Bernbaum in a very, very long time.

[Guest Kelsey]

Does this look lke the one you have

[ply33]

Does this look lke the one you have

Mine had some more leather stitched on one side that formed a cone to keep grease in the housing. And I think it had wires instead of straps for the outside fastener. I remember when I ordered it over the phone that the lady said they had two types and one had more stuff on it than the other and I asked for the one with more stuff.

[Guest Kelsey]

hmm.. the one in th epic is the mitchells one.. any chance you got yours from Collectors Supply??

[ply33]

hmm.. the one in th epic is the mitchells one.. any chance you got yours from Collectors Supply??

No. I decided to search through my electronic finance records, I don't see any purchases that match up from Collectors, Mitchell's or Bernbaum but there is one from the right time frame, May 2008, for about the right amount from Roberts. I don't recall the one I got being shown in their catalog or on-line site. I found out about it by talking on the phone with them.

[jpage]

Kelsey, You'll need a heavy press to remove the trunion pins,they are really tight. Takes some care too,so you don't bend the neck! I too,am looking for the replacement dust boots. I had a set of rubber ones that came in a NEW fresh repair kit from Sealed Power but they only lasted about 5 yrs. without even being on the road! They could be made (with the lacing) if you had a good sample! The ones that 1936D2 had pictured in a previous thread looked like the ones I would like to find. They had wire ties and several metal clasps to hold them shut.

[1936 D2]

Here are some shots of some other styles of the leather boots.

These are for "Detroit 52" joints and fit Dodge, Packard and Willys.

I think the leather was used throughout the '30's cars.

Edited June 24, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Guest Kelsey]

COOL!!.. OK where do you get those style boots?

[Guest Kelsey]

Well. Started working on the engine yesterday... We had it cleaned up but wanted to pull all the covers and pan and replace the gaskets.. Glad we did.. Major carbon build up and some sludge.

Did notice something I have never seen before The pistons have a "slit" vertically on one side of the skirt. I can not figure out why any piston would have a slit in them? Anybody have any idea? Possibly oil drain off to the crank??? , Expansion control?? These are .030" oversized pistons, so, apparently, the '41 engine that was installed, was not a new one.

Also found the timing chain to be very loose.. Loose enough that it sagged and when you rotated the crank the crank could turn and not rotate the cam.. Funny, because the engine always ran real well... not big power but I would think that with a very loose chain, that there would be runability issues or maybe some backfiring on occasion?? but there was none.. So, checking around on chains, not sure where to get the best one.. I suspect that maybe my local parts house may even still be able to get them? According to the literature it should be the same up to 1954. any thoughts on that one?

Noticed the timing cover seal was NOT in my COMPLETE engine gasket kit I purchased.. Not happy about this.. So, I need one of those as well..This seal look slike it may be difficult to remove without bending the cover since you have to pry it out from the inside..

I can't decide if I should take the engine down and recondition the valves and seats and pistons or not? Like I said the engine ran great and I di dnot do a leak down or compression test before I removed it.. My bad..

I will check the bore size today but would rather not pull the pistons if the bore checks out to be round.. This slit thing still has me baffled???

I notice that you can purchase new oil strainers. not sure if this is a good idea (needed) or not.. Mine should be fine.. I will remove it today and inspect it closer..

Let me know what you guys think....

Thanks

Edited June 24, 2012 by Kelsey (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

COOL!!.. OK where do you get those style boots?

These were ALL eBay finds.

[jpage]

Many pistons have a slotted skirt and it is for expansion control,you'll also find that some pistons are not perfectly round but slightly oval shaped. You will have to remove the chain cover to replace the crank seal as it fits into a cup on the inside of the cover. It's easy enought to cut a gasket from regular gasket paper using the cover for a pattern. I also use sealant on all bolts that enter the block to avoid leakage. Looks at this point ,that it might behoove you to do a complete rebuild now rather than to wish you did it after you have a problem. Engine parts are available from Terrell Machine in Texas.Egge Machine and are still available through any NAPA store. Don't pay E-bay prices! Just got a price on a NEW water pump at NAPA. $65.00 plus ups as compared to $150.on E-bay and the new one has a warranty! They can also supply all the electronics also,like points.cond.ETC. If you clean the oil strainer and plumbing well you should not have to replace those parts.

[Guest Kelsey]

OK, did an engine bearing check.. Looks like this engine is going to get a full rebuild..

So, Now, I am not sure what to do.. I can not find out if the current main bearings are standard or oversize.. The bearings are Federal Mogul FM 1-49 but I can not locate any info on these.. reason why I am concerned is because I want to supply the parts to the machine shop that is going to do the work..

Also, I should bore it as well...

My other concern is that it is a D-19 (1941) engine.. D19-30219.. I THINK it is a 218 vs. the 230 but really am not 100% sure. I did check the rod length and it appears tohave the longer rod . The C-C is not 7 13/16" (definitely longer) but it is not the 7 15/16" either it is , best I can measure 7 7/8"

Other concern is that I KNOW I needed a 41 Fuel pump to work, because I had a 37 pump and the actuator arm was wrong.. yet the 41 pump worked fine.. So, this has me concerned.. Why would the 218 have 2 different fuel pumps??

Another question I have for you guys (while I try and find a shop that can do the machine work on my engine)

Any experiences with the different piston kits out there? (EGGE, EPW, etc.) I want to have the better kits and do not want some foreign made ones that are not as well made..

SO>> any thoughts as to who has the best kit (bearings, pistons,seals, etc.)

Also, any idea on the FM 1-49 bearing size?

Thanks

[jpage]

Egge Machine is a good choice as they use brand name parts or mfg. their own. I don't think you'll find an all inclusive "kit" available. as most parts are sold individually because of size( brgs,pistons,ETC. Any "good" auto parts store,NAPA for instance ,can supply brand name brgs, pistons,gaskets and some seals. Look for names like Sealed Power,Clevite, Fel-pro,for good parts.

[Guest Kelsey]

Egge Machine is a good choice as they use brand name parts or mfg. their own. I don't think you'll find an all inclusive "kit" available. as most parts are sold individually because of size( brgs,pistons,ETC. Any "good" auto parts store,NAPA for instance ,can supply brand name brgs, pistons,gaskets and some seals. Look for names like Sealed Power,Clevite, Fel-pro,for good parts.

Did some calling today.. Engine is on its way to tthe machine shop tomorrow..

I have been speaking with Steve at Vintagepowerwagons.com .... This guy is a wealth of knowledge on these engines.. Very helpful and real nice guy.. They also have TONS of parts for the engine. So, if anybody is looking for info and parts.. Steve is a great resource..

I will be taking the body in for Soda blast tomorrow or Thursday.. Things are moving very quick... almost as quick as my money is moving out of my bank account...

Hopefully, it is all worth it in the end??

Edited June 27, 2012 by Kelsey (see edit history)

[36 D2 Coupe]

Just a note based on my limited experience with a partial rebuild - we did one years ago on our 218 and neglected to do the camshaft bearings. Result was very low oil pressure when it warmed up. When it comes out to be done properly, it'll get a lot of new innards. Good luck with your project. Hope to see what it looks like when it's done.

Jim

[Guest Kelsey]

Update.. Been a while

Engine is completely rebuilt and painted and ALMOST put back together...

Picke dup the car from soda blast last night... Will be replacing all the body mounts and pinion seal this week and then it is off to the body shop for primer, body work, and paint..

All is coming along.. Found a little rust "slit" (weird) in body and little thinning near the rear fenders.. Nothing serious.. but did not see it before..

Here are some pics of the progress..

[Guest Kelsey]

[1936 D2]

Blue for the engine block?

[keiser31]

Just to inform...for originality, the engine block should be silver and the bolt-on accessories, black.

[Guest Kelsey]

Just to inform...for originality, the engine block should be silver and the bolt-on accessories, black.

Yes, I realize that.. My son and I just decided to diverge a bit in a few areas.

We are keeping everything original except the paint scheme and interior.. The rest is 37 Dodge.. One of the reasons behind this way of thinking is that the engine is from a '41.. So, ANY chance of having a 100% original car was shot with the engine swap back in the 40's ..

So, with that thought in mind, we decided, since we are spending a small fortune on this car to restore it, that we would make the colors the way we prefer.. Especially the interior colors.. the original brown interior is very plain... We have't 100% decided on the material or style for the interior but it is going to be light and dark grey vs. brown...

The engine????We just made a decision based on matching the rest of the paint scheme...