which buick engine for corvair mid-engine project?

[Guest]

yeap- you read the subject line correctly.<BR>have 65 chevy corvair corsa 2dr hrdtp.<BR>have 66 saginaw 4speed.<P>car is currently a 110 hp, dual carb, 164cid flat six (not orignal motor, so i have no qualms about replacing it)<P>what i really want to do, is make sort of a 65 reatta, if buick had built one.<P>well, not really, since buick would prob. not put the engine where the back seat is supposed to be <P>i intend the car to be a bit of a road warrior. corner carving, plus a little light to light action.<P>my question? i am limited in space, and i want to keep the weight down, so which engine should i use?<P>the corvair stock weighs in at 2600 lbs or so, and the addition of radiator and coolant will increase that some. i think i can stay under 3000 lbs total, but lower is better.<P>current engine thoughts:<P>300: looks like alot can be done with this motor in a gs, aluminum heads were standard?<P>215: great conversation starter, plenty of performance parts from the rover crowd, but pricey. performance not so good? perhaps a stroked version? light weight with all aluminum?<P>231/252 v6: cheap. parts cheap. lots of perf. stuff. lighter weight from fewer cylinders. what about fuel injected version, or perhaps late model with balance shaft? supercharging from say, bonneville?<P>all-in-all, if you wanted to pick a small buick mill to sit behind your driver's seat, which would you pick and why?<P>allan noah

[Guest]

Go with the 215. They are pretty quick in light cars, like the TR8 and the MGBV8. Probably cheaper than a 300, also. There was a 215 turbo kit for sale on eBay a few weeks ago, and many performance parts are still available. These motors were raced actively in Australia and New Zealand years ago. Check there for Weber carb intake manifolds and dry sump setups and the like.

[Guest]

215, "performance not so good" I know a guy who got 450 HP out of one! There was one in a HOTROD magazine around 1966, a convertible, with a 671 blown 425 mounted midship! Wild. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.

[Guest]

yes- the 215 is my thought, however, i have found them to be MORE expensive than the 300, since most of the british car owners dont seem to mind paying out the nose for parts <P>does anyone know anything about the 4.6 litre version that comes in the range rover? i hear it is a bored and stroked 215. is this the same thing that a 300 crank in a 215 gives?<P>i played with an olds f85 with the turbo 215 in it. dont know if the olds motor was related to the buick one, but the turbo lag was pretty bad, and i have little interest in injecting alcohol and water into my cylinders....<P>perhaps a more modern turbo could take care of that. the turbo is also a corvair trademark of sorts.... hmm<P>allan

[Guest]

The 215 is a pretty good idea, because of the light waight. But.... There's a guy on turbobuick.com with a GN engine in one.<BR>Just a thought,<BR>Keith<P>------------------<BR>-Keith<BR>'87 Lesabre T-type (The T without WHOOSH)<BR>http://members.xoom.com/lesabrettype/index.html

[BUICK3001964]

Hey, go with a SUPERCHARGED 3800 compact and gobbs of power. the turbo GN motors plumbing takes up a lot of space JUST MY $.02 worth GO modern<P>------------------<BR>Sean Etson

[Guest John Chapman]

Allan,<P>Just a few personal thoughts on this...<P>You have a relatively rare Corvair in your hands (second only to the Corsa Spyder and late-model Greenbrier vans). If it's in decent shape, why not restore it to original specs? In '65, the Corsa was available with a 180 HP turbo. While not providing V8-like power, this was a very lively motor with a very distinct and plesant sound. There are a few of these locally that get a lot of attention at cruise nights, as they are really a nice, timeless design.<P>The engineering issues you'll face in getting this car to handle correctly with the mods you are proposing are pretty large. In the Corvair community, the '65- '69 cars are viewed as having considerably less torsional stiffness than the early ('59 - '64) model, due in large part to the pillarless design. This will be a signicant factor when you put 300-400 pounds of torque in the car.<P>Personally, I'd hate to see a nice survivor (rust, Nader, time and GM corporate indifference) chopped up to create an ill-performing 'road warrior' -- <I>even</I> if you put in a Buick engine -- and in 18 months being scrapped.<P>To accomplish what you state you're seeking, I think you'd be far, far more pleased with putting the 215/300 in a MGB or TR4/6...or even an early Camero (now, <I>that</I> would stir up the Chivvy boys!)<P>For more info on the Corvair, check out the following links:<P> <A HREF="http://www.corvair.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.corvair.com/</A> <P><A HREF="http://www.corvairkid.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.corvairkid.com/</A> <P><A HREF="http://www.corvair.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.corvair.org/</A> <P>I hope you consider what you have before you start chopping away at it...<P>Good luck!<BR>John<P><BR>------------------<BR>John Chapman<BR>BCA 35894<BR>1965 Skylark Convertible (Some Assembly Required)<BR> jmchapman@aol.com <P><p>[This message has been edited by John Chapman (edited 09-07-2000).]

[Guest]

i appreciate the info john, and i see now that i mis-spoke. the car is a monza (i said corsa in my orignal post) <P>the car is not that rare really.<P>i have no qualms about cutting it up, and i plan to do a good enough job (i always do) that _IF_ i decide to sell it in 18 months, the car _WONT_ end up in a scrap heap.<P>besides, i dont like british sports cars, i like corvairs, and this corvair has been in my family far longer than i have been alive. dont worry about me doing any dis-service to the marque or the model.<P>basically, i am down to a modern supercharged (or perhaps turbo) v6 or the 215 (perhaps stroked/bored)<P>this project is a year or two off, so i have lots of time to think...<P>since you seem a bit of a purist, i wont tell you about my plans for a 62-64 studebaker gt hawk <P>allan

[Guest John Chapman]

Allan...<P>Not so much a purist as a pragmatist. Yep, Monzas are much more plentiful. I always cringe when nice, fairly unique (low production, for example) cars are chopped up beyond redemption.<P>I never cared much for recent Brit offerings, either... save for the TR-6.<P>Is that a Golden Hawk or a Silver Hawk, by the way? The ones with the supercharged 327's were pretty cool cars.<P>Thanks for hearing me out. Good luck with your project!<P>Cheers,<BR>JMC

[Guest]

well, it is a little off topic on a buick list, but i am a pretty big stude fan (along with lots of other dead makes <P>the power/silver/gold hawks in the late 50's were much like the special/super/roadmaster lineup for buick in 1950. all were essentially the same car, just different engines (i6 and 2 v8's resp)<P>in 1962, studebaker re-fried the original 1953 design yet again, and called all hawks by just one name: the gran turismo hawk.<P>along with the name change, the car was shorn of its fins, and the back half of the roof became square, like the 61-63 t-bird coupes.<BR>the grille also got bolder and alot of the trim was painted body color instead of chromed.<P>so the answer to your question is:<P>none of the above <P>allan

[Guest John Chapman]

OK... <P>Guess I'll just go sit in the corner and work on rusty parts.<P>JMC

[BUICK3001964]

If you decide to go with a 215 stroker get in touch with Dan Lagrou (810)798-2491 daytime he has helped me and he specializes in stroked 215s $.02 3800 supercharged<P>------------------<BR>Sean Etson

[Guest]

215 engine for sale on eBay- HP build up.<P> <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=430787141" TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=430787141</A>

[Guest]

Why not entire drivetrain,harness and ECM,engine frame and struts from front drive? I know electrical nightmare,auto trans. and fabrication galore!<BR> Wide stance at rear like Carrera (add fender flares)It would be real mid engine as motor would be ahead of axel(good bye back seat(more fabrication))!Would have proper suspension for drive train(call Ralph to be sure)remove steering rack and use toe adj.link like rear of same donor car.<BR> And hey burn rubber

[Guest]

86 2dr. ltd., you have just descibed EXACTLY what GM did with the Fiero! Sounds good to me. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.

[Guest]

yes- i have considered that. transversely mounted gm front drive setup from say, pontiac transport, is right width, and relatively compact. however, that is not the road i want to go down.<P>i want to convert the corvair tranny to take input from its front side (actually not that hard, and bolt a buick motor in place of the back seat. this will involve less cutting of the structural integrity of the car (it is unibody after all) and be less of a hassle than having to deal with suspension changes.<P>i do like the thought of a stroked 215...<P>allan

[Dave@Moon]

And I thought the only place you could get refried hawk was at Chi-Chi's! <P>Allan, bolting that 215 two feet behind your ears may present a minor "nvh" (noise/vibration/harshnss {or would that be heat in this case?}) problem. I hope your planning on doing something besides letting your wife's hair get caught in the fan belt! <p>[This message has been edited by Dave@Moon (edited 09-14-2000).]

[Guest]

There was a company that made a swap kit to put a Small block Chevy in the back seat of a Corvair as you are planning. It included an engine cover that included built in bucket seats for the front! One option was power window addapters, because the engine cover made it impossable to get to the window cranks. If you are looking for a 300 crank to make that 215 stroker, I have a mint standard one. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.

[Guest]

Three Questions:<BR> Whats the Saginaw 4sp? I've heard of it before but don't know.<BR> Is there enough room infront of tires for input,trans.,and then engine?<BR> Where to put the radiator?

[Guest]

I believe radiator goes in the front, just like a porsche.

[Guest]

Isn't the rear engine Porshe air cooled?Longest running auto design ever isnt it?Probably changed alot since I last paid attention.Wonder how many LeMans those little beasts have COMPLETED? <BR> I'd still say front drive power train.Radiator with electric fan in rear.Full roll cage to stiffen frame.Rear fire wall to protect Ladies hair.If your gonna chop-why stop.<BR> Did any branch of GM use a manuel 5sp. on front that could take some power.Those Beretas or anything?

[Guest]

Pick up a Kit Car magazine, you will find a bunch of ways to put a V8 to a Fiero transaxle. With a BOP adapter, you could run that 215 aluminum block mounted transverse! way to cool!<P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.

[Guest]

yeah- there are lots of options here.<P>martin, kennedy engineering and clarks both did corvair mid engine conversions. rather simple affair really.<P>if you will forgive my ascii art (as long as the pre tags work):<P><pre><BR>original corvair setup:<P>car front car rear<BR> ______<BR> (wheel )<BR> ------<BR> | | +--------+<BR> | | | |<BR> +-----+-----+ |<BR> | T | D | E |<BR> +-----+-----+ |<BR> | | | |<BR> __| |__+--------+<BR> (wheel )<BR> ------<P>my setup (hopefully)<BR> ______<BR> (wheel )<BR> ------<BR>+-----+ | |<BR>| | | | <BR>| +-----+-----+<BR>| E | T | D |<BR>| +-----+-----+<BR>| | | | <BR>+-----+ __| |__<BR> (wheel )<BR> ------<P></pre><P>basically, the input shaft passes thru the differential, and all the way to a bearing carrier on the forwardside of the trans. if the shaft is replaced by one that points out the front of the trans, you can connect an engine to the front instead. this places the engine in the rear seat, and requires a cover.<P>oh- and 86 3dr, saginaw 4sp is a 4 speed manual transmission. it is really just saginaw gears inside, but the housing is slightly different from the original corvair housing.<P>the saginaw gears are considerably stronger that the original 4 speed, and was available from 66 to 69. the corvair in question is a 6, came with the weaker tranny.<P>allan

[Guest]

I say go with a modern engine and transaxle. You get the better ride, more room, overdrive, and a nice injected smooth running engine. <P>There is somewhere on the 'net a website that a guy is building 'glass Tuckers with a GM engine/transaxle combo bolts right in. try a searchengine and I bet you can find it.<BR>It was real slick and the Tucker stuff was cool too! <P>SC3800 or maybe a 455 and TORO transaxle? I saw an old hotrod where they put a toro engine/transaxle in a 914 Porche and made a cover out of old suitcases. It looked like a porche with a bunch of suitcases behind the seat.<BR>Its gonna be HOT inside that car!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Adam Whitman<BR>50 Olds Coupe; Stage 2 <BR>64 Skylark, Stage 1

[Guest]

Gee, I know I'm a bit late, but I had to throw in my opinion. Go with a '89-93 Land Rover 4.0 Litre. It's a bored, improved 215, with stiffer block, great heads, wonderful induction system. The 300 crank strokes the displacement up, but check with the mg V8 fans for the hairy details. <BR>Of course, the 4.0 Olds Aurora is a great engine, too. Kinda like a 215 redesigned by the Cadillac Northstar engineers. <BR>I prefer the exhaust note of my 300, but the aluminum engines are better for the Monza suspension. I'd love to see someone carry the turbo 215 Olds jetfire concept a little further than GM went. Double the boost, maybe ? Have fun.

[Guest Albert]

Years ago my shop teacher put a 350 gm into a corvair, I think he used a toronado tranni and mounted the the motor in place of the back seat.

[Guest oldtimer]

the company that sold the conversion kit was called crown. get the kit for the sbc and alter it for a 425. what a ride..........<BR>i worked on a 914 porsche with a built 283.......... very scary

[Guest]

Kitn0,<BR> I like Studebakers too. My dad is building a '54 Commander with a 302 Studebaker V8 with all the factory Hi-perf bells and whistles. It has a '62 GT dash, Porsche seats, Mustang II front suspension, 700R4 trans, and a Ford 9" rearend with disc brakes. It'll be way cooler than any of those ChevyBakers.

[MidshipCorvair]

In the Early 1970s I built a Corvair convertible with an Olds Jetfire turbo mounted amidships. Unfortunately I ran out of money and had to sell it.  I don't know if it still exists.

[Barney Eaton]

I owned a 66 coupe with a 350 chevy in the back seat area (Crown kit) it was the best cornering car I ever owned,  but shifting it was like slow motion.   The shift shaft had to go around the engine.

A fellow in our Corvair club built one with a 455 Toronado engine and transmission....he built a 10 inch spacer between the engine and transmission...this shifted weight forward and positioned the carb forward so you could work on it.

I like the idea of an automatic transmission because of the shifter issue on manual transmissions.   Maybe a 4.9 Cadillac V8 would be an option as the engine was all aluminum....but some say they had head gasket problems (I think on the early 4.1)

How about a 3800 supercharged engine .... not sure what transmission option you would have.