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Rob J

BUYER BEWARE. I Have Been Scammed By a Member Here

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Earlier this year, I bought and paid via a money order for this.

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/four-note-horns-319026.html

Have not heard back from the seller after numerous PM's, E-mails, calls (looked up his number)

The money order was cashed, had the bank verify, so that rules out something happened to this guy.

In all the years buying and selling items on auto forums, this is the first time I've been screwed by a member. Really boils my blood.:mad::mad::mad:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM THIS GUY

Edited by R W Burgess
Please use PM's when disputing issues on the forums! (see edit history)

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Rob,

If you sent the payment via U.S. Mail, you might want to contact the U.S. Postal Inspectors through your local post office. They work mail fraud.

Good luck,

Jim

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After making some noise on here last week, and other means, I finally get a box of horns today. Not sure why it took almost 6 months, and threats to get it, but it's here at least.

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Good to hear it all turned out well for you.

I like happy endings.

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Good news Rob. Danny must have received pressure from somewhere.

I'm happy for you.

Jim

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I had a similar experience, although for different reasons. I made lots of noise and calls and such... but only to find out that the seller was hospitalized for a period of time, so I really felt like an a$$ at the end. I appologized when I found out...

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Still you I would of thought whoever was getting their mail/paying their bills/ feeding their dog would at least let them know would of called you back themselves, after making all the noise.

Edited by sosuzguy
spelling (see edit history)

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I had to edit the first post here. Please refrain from posting company or people's names when disputing claims on the AACA Forums!

Thanks,

Wayne

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Wayne,

This policy makes no sense. It actually encourages scamming. What would you do to inform other forum members if this were to happen to you personally? What other method do we have at our disposal to warn others of scammers. Yahoo! Groups and other social media outlets do not censor items like this, why should the AACA forums? I know for a fact that editors of club magazines will notify members of scam artists, why not here?

I truly believe that the notoriaty that this problem received on this forum was the only reason that the seller decided that he'd better make good on this transaction. If not, Rob would still be out his money.

Ed Raner

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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I totally agree with Ed. I had been sending PM's and E-mails for months with no response from the seller. How ironic, that when I started this thread, I magically received the box with the items I purchased literally a week later. I doubt that is a coincidence.

As a mod for many years on another very popular and active auto forum, I do understand the importance of respecting the member's, however, we have no place for scammer's on that forum, and they are called out when need be. I think I gave this person plenty of time to do right by me, before I called him out.

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Scammers should be outed . How does another member get a heads up as to poor service or getting ripped off. Paranoia of litigation seems to be the only thing I can think of that would cause an administrator to remove a scammers name.

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It looks like the ROA will have to find another platform for our club Forum. One of the most useful services that Ray and the ROA provide to members is to warn them of problem vendors, members, dealers, etc. (Randy Rymal comes to mind, plus others). If we can not do it here then we need to do it somewhere else.

I will take this up with Ray and the Board.

Jim Cannon

Houston, TX

ROA #9774

ROA 1963 Technical Advisor

Edited by Jim_Cannon (see edit history)

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Looking at this from a moderators view, what happens when someone makes an accusation about another person (using their name) that is unjust, or has no factual basis, or is intentionally done to defame someone publicaly to settle some old dispute. I don't think anyone would agree that would be acceptable here. Thats sort of thing happens unfortunately.

Here we had a case where Rob had all his facts straight and made more than every reasonable attempt to resolve the issue before posting the guys name. I agree this person needed to be made public even though it may have been in conflict with forum rules.

So we have two very different possibilities where naming names comes up and I don't think any moderator wants to get involved in being a detective to figure out whos telling the truth and who isn't in an effort to decide what posts to delete or modify on a case by case basis. They have to be consistent and the only way to do that is to follow guidelines. The forum is too large to micro manage it. Having been involved in many disputes, what seems so obvious initially on the surface isn't always so.

I guess it comes down to this; Would Rob have received the horns if he had only posted the guys board name and not his real name? I highly doubt it because the individual could stay hidden or pop up under another name in the future only to prey on someone else. Perhaps this is a case of where a better system can be developed for disputes originating on the forum. AACA has been a great asset to ROA for allowing us to have our own sub-forum.

To Jims note this is something that can be discussed. Typically Ray flags any crooked advertisers in the ROA newsletter, the "Riview". Is this forum an extension of the ROA classifieds? Perhaps? It will be Rays call but Rob may want to notify Ray so he can post a warning notice in the next Riview with the guys name and location. At a minimum Ed and I can make this a topic of discussion at the board meeting we are having in Monterey week after next.

Edited by JZRIV (see edit history)

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I agree, Jason. When posts get personal and attacking, they should be edited. I looked back over these 2 related threads and Rob J was particularly restrained, considering the facts. I saw no need to edit anything.

I have not found the Forum Rules that say we can not notify members of unscrupulous vendors, dealers, sellers. I looked.

I did a quick search of the entire Forum (all areas) and quickly found a large number of posts across all Forums warning of ripoffs, scams, fake auctions, etc. and most of them quote someone's name or provide a link the auction or ad that has the scammer's name in it. I'm not so sure that this "rule" is being applied equally across all Forums.

Perhaps this seller did not like seeing his name highlighted as a scammer and asked the Board Mods to remove his name. Well, not getting into this situation would have been a better way to keep your name out of the papers, so to speak. Posting an apology reply by the original seller with some explanation (illness, family emergency, unexpected business travel, etc.) would have gone a long way toward toning this all down.

Now the censorship by the Mods is keeping the incident he wanted to go away even MORE in the headlines. Oops!

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Guest BJM

The powers that be - behind this seller finally coming through should encourage the seller to come on this forum and provide an explanation.

V8Buick.com allows negative feedback and it usually results in the seller coming on and providing an explanation of what happened from their viewpoint.

Virtually ALL forum members disagree with the AACA's negative feedback policy, but the leadership of the AACA has remained steadfast in their position and so I just gave up complaining about it.

Start another forum, is about the only option. AACA considers it Risk Management and the leadership is elected to preserve the fundemental tenets of the hobby group, which is NOT forum sponsored vendor commentary but owning and driving old cars for a pleasurable distraction from our busy lives.

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Rob had a problem and came to the AACA forum to complain and perhaps, seek some help from readers on the forum.

Most of us don't know Rob, but he seems credible, and have no reason to doubt what he said is true.

If the seller and Rob had personal problems, they could represent anything they like to the readers of this Forum, and as in real life, the first to complain is seen as the wronged party.

Again, I have no reason to doubt Rob didn't receive what he paid for and was happy to see that his problem was finally resolved.

However, the AACA has reason to cover their rear-ends. If one of the parties think they've been libeled, that person could start an action against their accuser AND the poster of the libel, in this case the AACA. Right or wrong, the AACA would still have to defend themselves.

This forum belongs to the AACA, they have every right to protect themselves against possible legal action, it's their Forum and we're guests here. We have to abide by their rules or not participate in this valuable resource.

Jim Wright

President, ROA Board of Trustees

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Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> The ROA has always had a policy of encouraging members to bring complaints to our attention. As mentioned here we have used names in the past, but only after the complaint has been investigated. There have been times when complaints were not credible and certainly times when they were. I will personally follow-up all "written" complaints I receive directly at ray@rivowners.org or mailed to our ROA office..

Neither the ROA nor the AACA can allow names to be mentioned without some follow-up, its not fair. ROA will do the follow-up necessary. We cannot expect the administrators of AACA to do the same. If any of you have ever sold a part I'm sure you have had someone complain about delays, condition, price, etc. We can't allow the names of people or companies to be unfairly slandered and then be held responsible for publishing the complaint.

We have intervened many times on the part of the member and most times it has been a misunderstanding, or lack of communication. If the seller has been found to be guilty we will advise the membership and prohibit any future ads in the Riview.

This follow-up is a service ROA provides and is another reason to belong to a club, who looks out for its members.

Ray Knott ROA #1

Director ROA

ray@rivowners.org

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