Engine identification, again

[Guest Lasse]

This subject is probably thoroughly discussed many times, but neither Google or the search function in this forum gave me satisfaction.

I´m not quite sure which engine I have in my -63. Can anything be deduced from these:

Engine number, stamped on the of the block is 6G2014497 (see pic)

Head casting number is 1196914J (see pic)

If not, where to look next and what do I need to find?

Thanks!

[buickbonehead]

Buick 425 Identification

Buick Engine Identification 1963 - 1975

Look for the code as shown in the top picture in the first link and then decode from the list in the second link. You're looking for the two letter code on the passenger side of the block. It is usually upside down. The example picture is the "MT" marked as "Production Code Number"

Rick

Edited May 10, 2012 by buickbonehead (see edit history)

[RivNut]

My post is based on the G in the VIN. That would equate to an engine from a 1960. The nailhead for 1960 was the same 325 hp, 445 Wildcat (torque), 10.25:1 c.r. 401 cid as was found in the '63 Riviera. As BBH said, the true decoding numbers you need will be found on the passengers side (same surface but opposite of the 6G number you posted.)

I think the engine came from a '60 Invicta based on this VIN decoder.

1960 Buick Vehicle Identification Number

A casting number only tell you what the "cast" item started as before it was machined. Here's a list of casting #'s. You can see that the head number you posted is a number that was used for '59 - '66 364's 401's, and 425's. (J was the code for '63 but I don't know if the J at the end of the casting number is relevant or coincidental. Could be the '63 heads on a '60 block. ?????) Perhaps someone else can clarify this.

http://www.teambuick.com/forums/view.php?pg=casting_numbers_nailhead

Ed

Edited May 10, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Lasse]

Well, this turned out to be interesting enough. As per BBH:s advice, I dug out the VIN and it reads 4G8554I. Using that decoder, it point´s out to a 1960 LeSabre! And if I´m correct, those things only had 364´s? Also as Ed pointed out, the heads could be either one of them. So the evidence points out to a 364 from a 1960 LeSabre, right?

BUT.

I went through the receipts a previous owner had left behind, and found out that the engine was fully rebuilt in 1999. There was one that specified the purchase of 401 nailhead pistons. Could those be used in a 364? Or is it possible that the block is bored to a 401?

Last but not least, the official registration of the car indicates the displacement to be 6,97 litres which translates to 425 CID! Now the question is: Could a 364 be bored to a 425 and could the 401 pistons be used in that?

If anyone can make any sense of this, please tell me too!

[RivNut]

I dont' have any data sources in front of my now but I can tell you and easy way to identify a 364 when comparing it to a 401/425 you can measure the distance between the intake manifold bolts.

<TABLE border=2 borderColor=#808080 cellPadding=5 width="80%" bgColor=#ffffcc><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE bgColor=#c0c0c0 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD>322 </TD><TD>8 3/8"</TD></TR><TR><TD>364 </TD><TD>8 7/8"</TD></TR><TR><TD>401-425 </TD><TD>9 1/8"</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Looking at an aftermarket nailhead manifold and wondering what it will fit? Try this, measure between the bolt holes... </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The 364 has a shorter stroke than the 401/425 therefore it has a shorter deck height. The shorter deck height means that the tops of the cylinders are closer together and it needs a narrower intake than a 401/425.

You can't bore a 401 out to a 425 so there's no way you could bore a 364 out to a 425.

The VIN of the engine you first pictured starts with a 6, that would indicate it came from an Invicta (predecessor of the Wildcat.) Where did you get a VIN that starts with a 4? All Invictas came with the 325 hp 401 as described in my earlier post.

Look for that two letter code on the machined surface where the valley cover sits. That's the only code that will confirm/deny what you actually have. The 4 in the code is for a 401, the G is for 1960. If you have a 4G code, you're good to go. If the code happens to be 3G then you've got a 364. Highly doubtful based on some of the other data you've provided.

Ed

Edited May 14, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Lasse]

Let´s have another go, this is what I have:

On the drivers side of the machined surface, in front of the valley cover there is stamped 6G2014497, facing the "right way" when read from the front. This is the engine number, not the VIN, correct?

On the passenger side of that surface there is stamped 4G8554I, "upside down". That´s the VIN, right? No two letter code anywhere on that surface, and I scratched a lot of paint off.

So, what do I make of it? Anywhere else to look than the surface infront of the valley cover?

Thanks for bearing with me.

Lasse

[sean1997]

6G2014497 is the engine serial number and for 1957-1964 the engine serial number is the same as the car serial number. You may call the car serial number the VIN, but a real VIN didn't exist until much later. The other number on the passenger side is the production code followed by a date code. The production code is 4G, which is a 401.

[sean1997]

BTW, here is a link to my production code table. I think it is more accurate than those found elsewhere (you have to scroll down a bit, but its there, it had some sort of problem when I copied it from Word):

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?235947-How-you-tell-the-difference-bet-a-401-or-425&p=1924683#post1924683

Here is a link that shows where to find the numbers on the nailhead engine:

Team Buick Forum

[RivNut]

The engine serail numbers are the same as the VIN. When this number on the block matches the number on the plate on the firewall, you have the magic "Numbers Matching Car."

The production code number, which is on the passenger's side of the block tells you what the cubic inch displacement, horsepower, torque, compression, and carburetion are for that engine as it came from the factory.

Here's a picture using the correct nomenclature:

Team Buick Forum

You're only interested in the first two digits/letters in the passenger's side code. The other numbers have to do with productioin dates etc. Don't concern yourself with these numbers

PRODUCTION CODE: 4G is a '1960 401. The rest of the numbers are data codes for dates etc. Again, don't concern yourself with these numbers. (Your 4G engine has the same hp, cid, torque, carb, c.r., as the '63 JT motor)

ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER: 6G2014497 decoded is: 6=Invicta, G=1960, 2=Flint, MI (build plant) the other six numbers are the sequential production number. This car was the number 14,497 off the production line in 1960.

The engine you've posted pictures of is identical to an OE '63 Riviera engine except for the stampings. No sweat unless you try to sell the car as a matching numbers car. And we know you're not going to try to do that, you're just going to drive it and enjoy it.

Ed

[Guest Lasse]

Thanks guys, excellent info all around and solved my mystery. I was mislead by the fact that there is no two letter code (JT etc.) in this block, as it is an older lump of metal.

Ed, that´s 100% correct, my Princess and I are such sweethearts now that selling her is not an option.

Now I´m just relieved that it is a real 401, not a puny 364. Maybe also a little curious what ever happened to that old Invicta that gave my Princess a heart transplant?

Man I love this forum.

[RivNut]

Lasse,

Glad you're squared away. No more sleepless nights now. So that no one will question you on the engine in your car, you should paint it like the other engines were painted in 1963 Rivieras. This is a one year, one model only engine color. The block, heads, pan, etc are all painted silver. The air cleaner is "wrinkle" red, and a few of the brackets are black. The correct air cleaner decals are also depicted in this picture. (This picture is of a non a/c car hence there's no thermal clutch on the fan, nor is there a fan shroud. It also uses 2 V-belt pulleys rather than the 3 V-belt pulleys found on the a/c cars.

Ed

(If you paint very heavily over the area where the stamped numbers are, no one will ever know but you. )

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Edited May 15, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Jeephustler]

What silver paint did you use on that engine?

[CheezeMan]

Ed probably grabbed a "stock" photo; one pulled from the internet. I have hundreds of such photos that I use for reference.

[RivNut]

Chuck is correct. The picture I posted was one of many I found on Google images. I just typed in 1963 riviera engine. and found one that had a good view of a clean engine.

Ed

[Rj tepatti]

I have a buick engine and have searched the net to decode with no success can anyone help? Engine serial# 40H115349

[RivNut]

 

The production code will tell you year and cubic inches / horsepower

[telriv]

As we know unfortunately not always, but most times.