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40-42 Packard Air conditioner tags


Joe Block
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post-31126-143138960712_thumb.jpgGuys

Update

the Air Conditioning tag and Patient Tags are finished, wow they look good, see first photo above and way later posts

two black Packard tags, for those that want to fabricate something different for themselves. $125.

I am getting ready to have some Rear Compartment trunk mounted AC boxes built. These will be empty Boxes. or another option tags only for some friends. All Packard people are friends

I have two options the complete empty box $750

or just the that 2 tags one attached in the photo, and the other the patient tag just barely visible in the lower portion of the photo. I have better picture on the home computer, but not have fired it up for two years. I get it my around the end of May. I am going to be setting a home office so i get the updated pictures from my old business computer.,

These will be primed for the you to choose your own colors. Many were a brown similar to the heater or others off white/grey.

Email me if you interested, as I only one make the tags once, It a two hour drive to the reproduction guys shop. Packards42@yahoo.com

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Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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Joe, very nice project. please excuse some ignorant questions. the smaller lower plaque - that's the one with Bishop and Babcock on it, right?

The upper plaque - I've seen a second type, square , all block fonts, that says "Packard Weather Conditioner" then has instructions for using right and left dampers for "Summer cooling" and "Winter Heating". Can anybody say which was used when/where? West, Dwight?

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bkasmer

That sounds like it may be from the early 1940 unit, when there was a heater inside. They dropped the heater mid-way through the year, instead deciding to install extra heaters inside the car. That said, even the later 1940 tags said "Weather Conditioner", just doesn't give the heating/cooling instructions.

My car is the highest known serial number of a touring sedan, and it's tag says Weather Conditioner. I wonder if it changed for 1941-42, or if the tag that Joe has is for a postwar unit???

Edited by West Peterson (see edit history)
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west that a dryer, I believe the unit I got from you may of had one attached. I know modern cars have them usually up near the condenser in the front of the car, it to take liquids out ahead of the compressor normally. it keep water from freezing the system too.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update interest has pickuo three of the first five sets appear to be spoken for.

So i am going get more made later this month. I c can't remember my Hershey Space, I bring tags with contract details

If you interested in the tags let me know,

If you think your want to purchase a full box, I suggest purchase tags now, in case the box project become to much for me, until I retire later this year. I will give a credit back discount of $125 on a box ship without tags, and you can install yours. I will drill and locate them for you using the patterns from my original trunk unit.

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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My tags are the same as the one in the first photos, its different than West 19 40, tag, which is very cool.

West

if you can sent graphic ready copy and the exact dimensions. which look to be the same sizes as mine, I can probably get a few extra made for you if you like.

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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  • 2 weeks later...

The tags are indeed very nice. From the first post it looked like you were going to have some of the case parts reproduced as well. Were there any specific mechanical items in mind and designed around or does a buyer have to do that legwork himself?

Edited by HH56 (see edit history)
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The tags are indeed very nice. From the first post it looked like you were going to have some of the case parts reproduced as well. Were there any specific mechanical items in mind and designed around or does a buyer have to do that legwork himself?

My son build this from electric golf cart, so all is possible, as this was his high school senior project. I am pretty sure we can the rear the rear ac trunk units ourselves based on building this unit.

Any thought, we should leave hidden access for installing your AC chosen unit. There access door on the unit where the main tag goes as i recall.

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Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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The tags are indeed very nice. From the first post it looked like you were going to have some of the case parts reproduced as well. Were there any specific mechanical items in mind and designed around or does a buyer have to do that legwork himself?

Yes the next phase for me is building some trunk compartment units. The angle are all different in not rectangular, it set on triangled base and need the bracket in the photos to whole it up in place. . We will how long the first one takes.

I have a friend who planning to reproduce the rear deck louvers, engine mount, and pulley. those: I need to find for him, so he has the templates. I am working in Asia until august 1. so i will be home after that for at least three weeks, to work on this and the wife's Honey Do List.

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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That should be good news for many. I'll be interested in seeing what you choose for components -- particularly how you do the temp control and 6volt parts. Even for post war cars, nothing in new pieces with anything close to the original design or even 6v seem to be available. Perhaps something you choose could be used for those wanting to do later cars. There was at one time a repro dual groove fan/waterpump compressor drive pulley and the bracket for the compressor being made. I bought a set years ago but maybe that source is long gone now. Don't remember the persons name but believe it was Jim Hollingsworth who might have had one and put me in touch with the fellow doing the other.

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That should be good news for many. I'll be interested in seeing what you choose for components -- particularly how you do the temp control and 6volt parts. Even for post war cars, nothing in new pieces with anything close to the original design or even 6v seem to be available. Perhaps something you choose could be used for those wanting to do later cars. There was at one time a repro dual groove fan/waterpump compressor drive pulley and the bracket for the compressor being made. I bought a set years ago but maybe that source is long gone now. Don't remember the persons name but believe it was Jim Hollingsworth who might have had one and put me in touch with the fellow doing the other.

Yes, Jim made those original parts. I have one of each of jim reproductions. and an original pulley. the question we wrestling with is whether to use a modern compressor with electrostatic clutch. we thinking of two different compressor mount one for a rotary and one for york style (vertical) like the original, I found a modern Germany compressor that similar in design to the original, but use a narrow belt pulley in available in California through the USA distributor. Not sure about the R410 or R134 as for commerical applications,

I have a compressor off a 53 Packard too, that the way I going for now with a custom twin pulley. It vertical unit.

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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Think the compressor clutch is going to be the big issue -- at least seems to be on postwar cars. Some are running the Sanden on 6v without problems but depending on which Sanden rep you speak with, it will or won't work. As to the bracket, perhaps you could make just the York style at first. If using a rotary compressor specify a universal York to Sanden type adapter -- or possibly one to fit the German style compressor -- to be used with it. I did that on my 56 when using the original cast Lehigh compressor bracket with a Sanden.

EDIT: Sanden might still have the C1 clutch that was/is available on their FLX7 series modular compressors. It's shown on their website. 159mm diameter & 19.9mm wide. That's very close to the 3/4 belt width on the groove of the drive pulley -- Not sure what the original compressor pulley diameter was. I used the A1 clutch which was a perfect match for the narrow single belt used on my original Lehigh.

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Edited by HH56 (see edit history)
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That should be good news for many. I'll be interested in seeing what you choose for components -- particularly how you do the temp control and 6volt parts. Even for post war cars, nothing in new pieces with anything close to the original design or even 6v seem to be available. Perhaps something you choose could be used for those wanting to do later cars. There was at one time a repro dual groove fan/waterpump compressor drive pulley and the bracket for the compressor being made. I bought a set years ago but maybe that source is long gone now. Don't remember the persons name but believe it was Jim Hollingsworth who might have had one and put me in touch with the fellow doing the other.

The originals AC only used fan control and winter/summer drive belt. belt on and it runs all the time, belt off and it doesn't. Packard in 53 used a 6 volt cultch setup, those are rare.

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The originals AC only used fan control and winter/summer drive belt. belt on and it runs all the time, belt off and it doesn't. Packard in 53 used a 6 volt cultch setup, those are rare.

HH56, Joe's concept is the prewar AC unit, perhaps updated a bit, not a modern looking retrofit. Very cool Joe (pun intended) - I'm interested but missing most of my pieces - I think a correct appearance compressor and package vent is the key. The trunk box can hide a lot. Another handful of interested parties could come from Cadillac and Chrysler owners since they offered it after Packard. The decision to add a clutch or not decides if 6V is an issue or not.

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I know we are talking prewar but a lot of the problems are postwar as well.

Think the issue is going to be that there are no new auto compressors without a clutch -- unless you make something or maybe do as Packard did and use a standard commercial refrigeration unit. None of todays auto compressors that I know of will look remotely like the original. Possibly the cast iron Tecumseh Ford used in the 60s (if still available) might be halfway appropriate -- or at least wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb. It also mounts as the Yorks do. Downside to Yorks is they are aluminum and look it. Pretty much everything else is rotary. Parts for any of the reciprocating types might start to get interesting though.

Another issue is temp control. Without a clutch there will have to be some variation of the original early hot gas bypass or the later suction throttling methods to keep the evaporator from freezing. Both have their issues but also parts for either method have pretty much gone by the wayside. GM used a clutch on some of their postwars but Packard didn't until 55 and that was only to turn it on. Temp control was still fixed using gas bypass. The valves Packard used are NLA but perhaps something commercial is still around.

Another minor issue is the blower. The only 6v motors I've found are heater motors. A bit underpowered for the CFM needed with AC. The clutch and blower is what is causing so much issue on those wanting to add AC on post war cars. Most have given up and just converted to 12v.

Edited by HH56 (see edit history)
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I know we are talking prewar but a lot of the problems are postwar as well.

Think the issue is going to be that there are no new auto compressors without a clutch -- unless you make something or maybe do as Packard did and use a standard commercial refrigeration unit. None of todays auto compressors that I know of will look remotely like the original. Possibly the cast iron Tecumseh Ford used in the 60s (if still available) might be halfway appropriate -- or at least wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb. It also mounts as the Yorks do. Downside to Yorks is they are aluminum and look it. Pretty much everything else is rotary. Parts for any of the reciprocating types might start to get interesting though.

Another issue is temp control. Without a clutch there will have to be some variation of the original early hot gas bypass or the later suction throttling methods to keep the evaporator from freezing. Both have their issues but also parts for either method have pretty much gone by the wayside. GM used a clutch on some of their postwars but Packard didn't until 55 and that was only to turn it on. Temp control was still fixed using gas bypass. The valves Packard used are NLA but perhaps something commercial is still around.

Another minor issue is the blower. The only 6v motors I've found are heater motors. A bit underpowered for the CFM needed with AC. The clutch and blower is what is causing so much issue on those wanting to add AC on post war cars. Most have given up and just converted to 12v.

6 volt verse 12, may not an issue for me as I have original trunk unit blower in my sample first unit. i will check it when I home again see if I can find more details, perhaps a front compartment foot warmer blower will work ($50 everwhere) or 3 speed motor off the deluxe heater.

If the 12volt clutch locks on six volt, I sure the fan can be worked out. Maybe even one out of the after market window cooler units, there always 6 to 12 volt convert around at one time so we old could use modern radio in our VW and earlier cars. It a trail and error business. i told that 12volt electric drive work quite well on the 180 power window, at 6 volts, it slow them down to a more realistic speed. Another 3-6 month and I can solve it I sure.

York Piston compressors are around and green paint. I think any Ford use York. I put on my 1967 mustang. Built the mounts on the engine and that all it took to install a after market under dash. early mustang used under dash factory i think too. Or maybe they were dealer installed.

Check this Blissfield unit, it on ebay, now, no fins, the early CGF-J series now, obsolete models had the fins, like Packards,

Blissfield Link

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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here some six volt blowers I not sure 38 cfm is enough TBM-2 Centrifugal Blower, 6 vdc that no much more than bathroom fan

these guys offer a dual outlet model as mention in the second bullet. no details

Voltage: 6 vdc, Impeller Diameter: 2", Flow Rate: 38 cfm, Nominal Current Drain: 600 ma, that less than one amp, that mot much drain. 2 fan inch seems small.

Fasco - DC Motors

They have bilge blowers, I seeing if i get it with their 6 volt motor. quantity might be an issue.

check it out

here a mustang unit

140.jpg

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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  • 3 weeks later...

I am working with one of antique air conditioner shop to put together the balance of the piece for complete AC kit, their evaporator, hoses, compressor (probably a York) blower, my trunk unit and tags, engine mount, original switch maybe and drive pulley. It probably a parts list. Unless we work out a deal where he packages everything and provide the components. I see entire mustang kits for $1300 on ebay0, and at first glance it look to be adaptable to my stuff. We probably meet up at Hershey and try work out the loose ends.

Just need to figure out the 12volt thing, it people will go direct drive like the original then a six volt blower is easy. the under dash from foot/defroster unit, one or two of them, and you can pick them all day for $50 a piece. the easily fit in the rear trunk box.

I wrote Falso, something like that, to see if they build a six volt bilge blower, no joy yet. They have 35 cfm unit? I think

I not sure how hard it be to convert 12 volt coil to six volts if you want it to cycle like a modern unit. DC to DC convertor stepping up are harder to build or find (ac easy to convert) . but that another option. I just had another thought, how big are the under fron seat heater blowers, maybe that options too.

I found a step up transformer from 12 volt to 24 volt, Maybe?? I write the manufacturer. it cheap $35 on Amazon and look reasonable well built.

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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Closer in looks than anything else that comes to mind. Are they still in business with modern commercial refrigeration? I had thought Bishop and Babcock did the whole thing or did they just do the evaporator and make the system work?

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Those are obsolete compressor unit sadly,

The modern replacement look more like a york, Tecumseh, Bitzer (May not make the small anymore) are all smooth sides,

as who made Packard compressor, I have yet to find out who supplied Packard, I spent 8 hours again over the weekend searching the internet for clues. and replacements. Might be able to add fins for looks. I do believe you probably right Bishop and Babcock were the system suppliers. Who Packard could purchase components too. I am off to work now

Edited by packards42 (see edit history)
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  • 3 weeks later...

I was search for for my compressor mount and found an original 1940 rear vent, I did even know I had, I also found ashtray surround that were beautiful with show chrome, I been through a 100 boxes, not mount, but wow lots of goodies. 16 year of ebay purchasing since I start working oversea in 1996.

I would consider trading the 40 for a 41-42, the difference is the the 41-42 have a little handle on the center end shaft. and most are chrome. Mine is pot metal color all the louvers move individually. cool piece.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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