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1936 dodge 4 door sedan restoration start


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His shot was in so tight (thanks dodge36MA!) that you can't see the "dots" bosses ahead and after the Engine Number boss. The figures on the "dots" are only for "Assembly Line Inspectors" and are not used as any part of the actual engine number. (Per: Mopar "Model Chart and Serial Number Guide" - Publication D-12784 >supersedes D-12193<) I also heard in the past that the stuff on the "dots" are manufacture codes for cylinder bore and valve data.

Also note: The "I" in the number part is actually a coded "1". It is ALWAYS read as a "1" when quoting the number!

Thanks for the explanation, I would like to see the dots but as you mention cannot in his picture.

There can be a series of dots/slashes ect on earlier engines referancing oversized machine work or replacement engines depending on what was stamped.

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Paul: Those nice clear photos have been a big help! Keep it up! I will try to go through all your questions so far.

The carb you have looks to be a Stromberg BXOV-4. I am not sure of the applications for that particular carb. May be for Studebaker in early 40's but don't quote me on that. It is NOT correct for the '36 Dodge though. You can see the number in the casting at the bottom of the carb, engine side. The fuel line should enter the carb on the engine side for the EXV-2. You should be able to find nice cores around $50 and old rebuilts about $80-$100. Kits possibly $30 to $60.

Headlights are modified to sealed beam. One of the better jobs though. See photos of what you need to find eventually.

It looks like the Generator number is: GGW6001K. The actual generator for '36 Dodge would be an Autolite #GAR4608 OR #GAR4608E. (While I'm in there, the Starter is a MAW4010 also.) I can't find the application for your generator. My list only goes up through 1939 and those generator numbers only go to the 4800 series. So my guess is that your generator is later than 1939 at least. (Maybe the same 40's Stude donor car???)

Car Serial Number is correct for '36 D2. It is about 1/2 way through the production run. (D2 Serial Numbers between 4015051 to 4276687. Engine Numbers for the D2 run between D2-1001 to D2-266089).

Original Blue? Maybe. I don't really remember a blue color that bright for '36 though. Could be a factor of the flash on your camera. See this discussion on paint charts: http://forums.aaca.org/f143/1936-dodge-paint-chips-327404.html The real answer to original color will come once you get your Build Card info from the "CHS".

I'm not sure on the master cylinder. Mine looks just a bit different (see photo) but it could be that mine was replaced in the past some time. You will need to identify what you have though to make sure you are buying the right repair kit when you do. It is so similar I would assume it should work fine once up to spec. The Dodge number is #661143. I have marked down what I think is a WAGNER Master Cylinder Number as replacement which is: MC-544 and that would use repair kit #1. I also have marked down the Front Wheel Cylinder as #WC-9376 and that uses kit #6. I have the three hose as #6560 with a copper gasket #1243. (Again, these are all WAGNER numbers). I do not have the rear cylinder marked down so that means it was not available in 1984. All brake lines are steel with double flares. You can - should use the new Cunifer high burst strength, hand bendable line that is available. Much easier to work with and easier to double flare.

Your license plates look very restorable! Check in Hemmings Motor News and see if there is a vendor that redoes these. I had mine done by a guy in Milwaukee back in like 1990 but not sure if he is still doing it. They were done very well!

I have also included a photo of what the Automatic Choke looks like and its associated parts. It fits onto the top of the rear flat on the exhaust manifold with an asbestos gasket underneath. The wire goes around the back of the head and attaches to the side terminal on the starter switch.

Whew! :P

Have a good one! :D

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Thanks for the explanation, I would like to see the dots but as you mention cannot in his picture......

Here is a shot with one of the "dots" or circular flats (bosses) visible near the front of the number. It has a "C" code on it. There is another just like this after the number but not on this photo. It is pretty hidden behind the oil fill cap usually.

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.... as well as the manifold heat control assy.and manifold drain. Please don't take this wrong ,but by your photos it looks like your headed to a complete restoration,good thing is ,the car looks solid and fairly complete. Just look at that grille(covet..covet)!...

Paul: You are OK on the heat riser assembly and the main parts of the manifold drain. They are there. But the long steel drain tube that goes from the drain assembly to the area of the splash pan seems to be missing. It is a simple thing. Just like a piece of fuel or brake line - open on the bottom end.

Jim: Did you know it is a sin to covet your neighbors grille? :D I guess I'm guilty too. Paul, be very careful with that grille! It will be the shining glory to the finished look of your car some day!!! ;)

And Paul, would it be possible to get you to do another series of shots like the first ones you posted from in the garage but with higher resolution? You could actually just edit the first post and put the better shots on there. There are a few things I would like to see closer up if possible.

Thanks!

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Excellent photos 1936 D2.. I was wondering what the correct items looked like. Here is the best I can do with a carb photo that has info. It's pretty rusty but it is a Stromberg of some sort. (I see a 4 in the photo so it might be a BXOV-4)

The plates are in decent shape but the MA RMV requirement states "original" condition I believe. ( I take that to mean no restorations.. I will check on this when I go get a title)

It's interesting that the generator isn't original either. I guess I have to make a shopping list. If I find a correct generator or starter can I assume I can find someone to recondition them?

Those manuals can't come fast enough.

I'll work on the high res retakes of the first post.

(I love Milwaukee.. my wife lived there a few years. Right on Jefferson near the summer fest grounds)

Thanks again!

P.S. The grill pretty much sold me in searching for a '36. I love this thing!

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Edited by dodge36MA (see edit history)
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I see the manifold drain fitting but I don't see the heat riser spring or counterweight. Paul ,youll want to check to see if the riser shaft is free or frozen. I have a carb and a generator if you're interested,I still have a bunch of that little stuff. I could bend you up some new linkage too. Did you look to see what kind of fuel pump is on the car? Should be an AC model "B". It's located on the lower front right block side just ahead of the oil pump. Napa carries United numbers 3595 and 3596 for new front wheel cylinders. F544 is the correct Wagner no. for the master cylinder. The 2 front hoses are Wagner no. F6560. I bought my carb kit from Daytona Parts in New Smyrna Beach Fl. price was really good. No. 904-427-7108 not sure if it's current. There is a small ball joint at the end of the throttle rod that is available from AUVECO parts no. 9872, I think I have an extra.

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jpage, any chance you can take a pic of the manual or actual part in the car so I have a better idea of what you mean exactly. (I'm not sure I know what the "riser shaft" is.. or spring or counter weight)

Thanks for all the part numbers. (I just checked NAPA online and the wheel cylinders are 69.99 when returning the core) Is there any value in keeping the old core parts? (i.e. does the original add value to a rebuilt car?) I'm guessing no.

Shoot some pics of the carb and generator you have. (I think I would be interested.) Is the generator restorable? Does anyone make new plates for them?

I'll check the fuel pump out when I get a chance... I'm curious now that you mention it.

Edited by dodge36MA (see edit history)
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Paul: The carb photo is detailed but that info, other than "Stromberg" doesn't do much I guess. The Actual Model Number of the carb was visible in one of your earlier higher resolution photos - engine side of the carb. I just was not absolutely sure of the "4" because it was wrapping around quite a bit in the shot. It is way down by the attachment to the manifold. Either way, it is quite a bit newer than '36, but may work for a while so you can drive it around! ;)

I have attached a shot of the heat riser spring and counterweight on a NOS manifold set. There is just a big flat plate in the exhaust manifold that directs exhaust heat into the box under the carb to pre-heat the mixture going into a cold engine. You just want to make sure the weight on the shaft is tight and that the shaft through the manifold moves easily. They used to make a heat riser valve penetrating spray (penetrating oil with graphite lubricant) that you would apply to both ends of this shaft to keep it loose and free to move easily. This setup is right where the manifold drain comes out too. The drain would be in the intake manifold where the large screw is that the spring rests on. You have the drain parts except the tube. This spring and weight is just below on the exhaust part. Also, this spring is a bi-metallic thermostat regulating when the flap is closed or open.

I think what the State means by "Original Condition" is that they LOOK like the originals, meaning easily readable, correct colors for the time, correct size - all that jazz. "Condition" is the key word here. If you start with an "original" plate and have it restored, how could they complain? It looks like it did when they handed it out! What they don't want are non-period plates or something that is so old/rusty it is un-readable.

There are probably many people in your area that can recondition both the starter and generator. They have the "special equipment". Just check references in relation to doing work on these pre-war parts. You MAY also have to help with finding parts for the stuff if required.

For the value of the wheel cylinders, I would keep the core parts. Once you have them apart, clean them up very well and paint the exterior with a high temp semi-gloss black, coat everything up real well with assembly lube and seal them up with desiccant packs then store for future use. There will be a point where they do not make them anymore - like the rears - and you or a future rebuilder will appreciate having the cores.

Have fun! :D

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Edited by 1936 D2 (see edit history)
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A little more on the brake job.

I had to do a similar thing shortly after I got my car. I had to do a full rebuild of the system. I was fortunate enough that I was able to re-hone the interior of all wheel cylinders and master cylinder and not have to replace any. Then I replaced all of the brake lines with steel line having double flares. The only line I was unable to replace was the one across the front because of complicated bends and working in a cold dusty barn style garage. I just flushed it three times with alcohol. (No, not Jim Beam - the cheap moonshine stuff! :D ). An interesting thing about this system is that all the wheel cylinders are "stepped". In other words, the front half is a different diameter than the back half, and the rears are a different sized combination than the fronts but also "stepped". In total there are three different sized pistons and cups in the system.

Once the rebuild kits were in I filled the whole system with DOT-5 silicone fluid. I didn't feel like redoing the bleeding and stuff every year! ;) That was back in about 1984. I had to refill about 1/2 of the master cylinder once about 4 years ago, probably because of brake shoe wear. I have done nothing else to the system since other than periodic shoe adjustments. When I have them done up right I can toss my passengers into the windshield if I try!

So my bottom line is - DOT-5 silicone is the way to go! You will know right away if you did a good job because it will leak or not. It is a bit thin compared to DOT-3. Just be sure to have a fully cleaned system with NO TRACES of the old DOT-3 in there when filled with DOT-5. And don't spill any on the paint if you plan to do any repainting. It is totally safe for the paint unlike DOT-3 but needs to be FULLY cleaned off if you plan to repaint where it was spilled. Better yet - don't spill! :)

Edited by 1936 D2
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ATTENTION: You may have been email notified (if you have that turned on) of a post by "amigo" around Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:07 PM Central Time which would have placed it between about posts #48 and #49. He had a link in there to a "Photobucket" image. That link was identified by my Symantec/Norton Security software as being from a MALICIOUS SITE. >> DO NOT CLICK THE HOT LINK IN YOUR EMAIL NOTIFICATION ! <<

Apparently the Forum is able to block that kind of post and it did not appear here.

"amigo": Please repost that photo within your post by using the "Attachments" (paperclip icon) tools on this site instead of using the link to "Photobucket". Hopefully the photo itself is not the problem. If it is, I'm sure the Forum's Protection Software will pick it up again and not allow the post. The following is the text content of your post:

"This gas tank is realy hard not to tell if it was the original , theirs companys out their that made exact duplicats for around 1500 bucks , I have an original car including the paint and interior , but this Woodie project wont be that at all so i can live with a tank thats 3/4 taller than the original with out dents dings and alot of work to get something almost good."

Good luck with the repost.

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Quote........I think what the State means by "Original Condition" is that they LOOK like the originals, meaning easily readable, correct colors for the time, correct size - all that jazz. "Condition" is the key word here. If you start with an "original" plate and have it restored, how could they complain? It looks like it did when they handed it out! What they don't want are non-period plates or something that is so old/rusty it is un-readable...........

They consider painting a license plate no matter how nice a job you do or how well you stay within the lines as altering that plate so it cannot be used.

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I had my tank made at a local tinsmith shop. They used to old tank as a pattern. Put in the baffle and the reinforcement ring aroud the sender hole and rolled and soldered the ends. Fit perfectly and cost about $350.00.

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Quote........They consider painting a license plate no matter how nice a job you do or how well you stay within the lines as altering that plate so it cannot be used.

Not the case in WI. They prefer them to be "brand new" looking. Easy for "old" plates. Much harder for the reflective plates. Hence the guy's business I mentioned earlier for plate restoration. You need to send the state (or county as in the case of OH) photos of the pair of plates you intend to use. They are subject to approval.

Each state has their own rules. Most all states have their statutes posted online somewhere so it is in your best interest to check out your local rules before spending money on plate restoration. Around those same statutes you will find your state's regulations on titling and registration. All good stuff to know BEFORE applying.

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I had my tank made at a local tinsmith shop. They used to old tank as a pattern. Put in the baffle and the reinforcement ring aroud the sender hole and rolled and soldered the ends. Fit perfectly and cost about $350.00.

There ya go! Search out those small businessmen. Talk with them at length about what they can do and how exact you expect the product to be done. Once you both agree, have at it. I think the expense will satisfy both of you if you come to an agreement on what the finished product should look like before they start the process. ;)

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Not the case in WI. They prefer them to be "brand new" looking. Easy for "old" plates. Much harder for the reflective plates. Hence the guy's business I mentioned earlier for plate restoration. You need to send the state (or county as in the case of OH) photos of the pair of plates you intend to use. They are subject to approval.

Each state has their own rules. Most all states have their statutes posted online somewhere so it is in your best interest to check out your local rules before spending money on plate restoration. Around those same statutes you will find your state's regulations on titling and registration. All good stuff to know BEFORE applying.

Last I knew Mass, R.I, Ct. and possibly Vermont at least would not allow a plate that had been restored/altered in any way, now that I think about it that was 20 plus years ago so maybe the laws have changed but from what I know the laws are only changed up there to make things more difficult on people.

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So here is my fuel pump. It very close to the (much cleaner) one posted earlier by 1936D2.

I suppose if I clean it up it will look better but I doubt I'll get it looking like new. Are these findable as NOS? (another one added to the shopping list!)

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That pump looks like an"AB" model because of the high air dome. The "B" model has a large flat nut in place of that high protrusion. In any case that pump should work. The diaphram might be dried out and cracked and the internal valve springs might be bad. I bought a new aftermarket pump,took out the diaphram and internals and put them in the old body. I cleaned the body and painted it a dull aluminum and now it looks like new! I think at the time a new pump cost me $26.00. There should be a heat shield mounted to that long stud that helps prevent vapor lock. I might have an extra if you need one!

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Here's the heat shield (#654766 or later model #854413). You will note the early model (correct for '36 Dodge) has a big hole in it for the "air dome" on the pump and a small hole for the long bolt and nut. The top end fits under the nut on the front stud of the exhaust manifold.

Many people tossed these heat shields because when they got replacement fuel pumps, the replacement did not have the long bolt, so the heat shield would rattle on the air dome. They are also a bit of a pain to work around when servicing the fuel strainer.

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Sorry guys,I was wrong. The "B" model pump does have an air dome but it screws in and there is another flat screw in plug above the fuel bowl. I shouldn't trust my memory(my wife say my memory is about as long as my..never mind!)

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There is a "condensed" master parts list available form vintagemoparts.com. It is labeled item D-11087 on the front cover. 482 page pdf that I can download. Is this parts list to get? Or tis there something more specific to the '36 or an "uncondensed" version.

Thats a great looking heat shield. Is it original or a reproduction? (It looks simple enough to reproduce. )

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The PDF downloadable is a good list (can't beat the price!) for '36 Dodge. It's biggest advantage is that is shows '36 part numbers that were used on later models also. May help with the search for parts some day - having numbers stretch into later models. It also has pictures, albeit they are usually of later model parts and not all that useful. So I would grab that.

Then there is a "specific to '36" parts manual, much thinner, that shows all the parts for all the versions of '36 Dodge D2. That manual shows what parts were the same as parts used in 1935 Dodge DU and which parts are new for '36. I would try to find one of those too eventually. There are sometimes some interesting discrepancies - VERY few though. (See photo below of another version of this "specific year" parts manual. This looks very much like the one I mention here but is a "Preliminary Parts Manual" put out in '35. "1930" and I have been discussing differences in these two manuals. Slight but there.)

So either style of manual, "specific" or "master", would do the trick. At least buy the "master" one you saw as a PDF.

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Edited by 1936 D2
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Of all the types of parts manuals, the Preliminary Edition will give you the least information. This edition was issued at the beginning of the model year and does not have all the parts listed. I have a preliminary 1960 Canadian Chryco parts book and no interior trim pieces are listed. The next edition had all parts, at the time of publication, in the parts book.

Another specialized edition was the Collision Parts, which had sheet metal, glass and exterior trim, but no mechanical parts.

Over the model year, sheets may be issued with any corrections, additions or deletions of parts used. Parts books were printed in book form and later loose leaf form. The update sheets were printed in both forms as well.

If enough changes have occurred, an updated book will be issued. In Canada, once the Engineering people decide that is it, no more parts will be updated or replaced, a Final Edition is published. For 1960, the Final Edition Chryco parts book was issued in February, 1961.

Parts books, except for preliminary and final, also highlight which parts are new listings and which are superceded numbers.

Prior to computerized inventory, American Chrysler Corporation parts books started with "D". Beginning with the 1960 parts books, numbering changed to an "81-xxx-xxxx" format. Regardless of format, each new or revised edition received a unique number. Thus you can tell which edition is the latest as it will have the highest number.

In Canada, parts and service publications, including oweners manuals, used numbers with "WM" prefix. The Final Edition for 1960 was WM-4516. Again, the higher the number the newer the edition. Do not know when the WM numbering began, but the pre-1934 Chrysler final Master Edition was WM-3353. Chrysler Canada changed to the American system when Chryco parts became Mopar in Canada.

Parts books prior to 1934 were issued for each model - SA, DA, CJ, PA, etc. With 1934, and following the adoption of a set model year with 1933, books were issued by make each model year. In 1936 Chrysler of Canada started issuing a corporate passenger car parts book each model year, excepting 1946-48 and 1951-52 and the 1960-63 Valiants.

The U.S. Master Editions were the equivalent of the Canadian Final Editions, but covered a number of years instead of the one year in Canada. Thus the 'up to 1933', 1936-1942, 1946-1954, 1955-1958, etc. groupings for the Master Editions.

So, if you are looking to purchase one book for your car, the later the edition for your model year the better. The Preliminary Edition is nice if you want to expand your paper collection for your car, but as a resource for a restoration project it may not be all you need. On the other hand, the Master Edition would be the best deal as it lists all the parts for your car plus the other years in the grouping. Gives you some idea where to look for parts if what you want was used in other years and, if a corporate Master Edition, used on other makes.

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There is a "condensed" master parts list available form vintagemoparts.com. It is labeled item D-11087 on the front cover. 482 page pdf that I can download. Is this parts list to get? Or tis there something more specific to the '36 or an "uncondensed" version.

Thats a great looking heat shield. Is it original or a reproduction? (It looks simple enough to reproduce. )

In my opinion I would say dont spend your money on this one right now, its has benefits such as seeing what other models carried similar parts but in many cases that information will be incorrect as there were changes made to the parts that were minimal and yet technically not correct for your car.

I like the preliminaries because they give you an idea what was proposed to be used with the cars and in many cases were used as can be noted with the model year specific.

I have a preliminary DA parts book that is a hoot to go thru as it shows parts that were never used on DA but gives insight on what was considered to be used and can get pretty confusing unless one were to take notes as they were studying it and cross referance pages.

Then you have the master parts books which I put in the same category as the condensed books.

You also have the D.B buyers guide which Is another version of a parts book and carries all of the most frequently serviced parts on your D.B car. Since there were no model specific year specific parts book issued for 32 and 33 the buyers guide ( which I have ) has been the closest possibly the most accurate book for part numbers when considering the 32 33 model year cars and the 14-33 Master parts book might be the second best bet.

As Bill mentioned always try and find the last edition of the model specific/year specific parts book for your year car to get the most accurate information

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Hey guys! My plan this weekend is to diagnose each wheel cylinder. Hope to have the dodge sitting on 4 stands. Any advice on where to lift and where to place the stand on each corner? I might even remove the master cylinder and take measurements to run new lines. Thanks!

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Man their isn't that many bolts to remove the body and you will have good axcess to the break lines and every thing else ,you can add new body cushions and work twice as fast

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So here is my fuel pump. It very close to the (much cleaner) one posted earlier by 1936D2.

I suppose if I clean it up it will look better but I doubt I'll get it looking like new. Are these findable as NOS? (another one added to the shopping list!)

I was shocked when I got the exact fuel pump from O'reilly auto parts , glass bowl and all it took 2 days and came from Houston I have the original heat shield and it fit the dome perfect Ill have to post a pic

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Yes it's the original muffler configuration and muffler it was pricey but theirs ones out their that are1/2 the price and pipes look original but the muffler isn't , It sounds great though company's name is "Waldron’s Exhaust" It fit perfect using the same original brackets , just replacing the rubber hing pad at the rear. But I had the gas tank in and centered and its not centered its off set to the drivers side , that was wild but you can look in the book and see the off set of the tank and the muffler just clears

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Hey guys! My plan this weekend is to diagnose each wheel cylinder. Hope to have the dodge sitting on 4 stands. Any advice on where to lift and where to place the stand on each corner? I might even remove the master cylinder and take measurements to run new lines. Thanks!

I see you are still working on it as a whole car yet. That's fine. Then maybe you can drive it around a bit once the brakes are done! Anyway, I have found that it is best to lift the car by the axles. I place my hydraulic bottle jack as close (or on) the area where the springs mount to the axle. Then put the jack stands just inboard of the spring mount areas on the axle. My thought process is that that is where the car frame and body is supported by the axles anyway so the stresses should be as normal as possible. The car, if kept level, should be very stable there too.

I was able to use this technique back in 1984 in an old barn style garage with one drop light to get my brake system apart, and once all the parts were rebuilt and lines bent, put it all back together. So, you should have an even easier time! This is all do-able stuff!

Oh, by the way, consider using DOT-5 silicone fluid when you put it all back together. I used silicone compatible assembly fluid on all internal moving parts then filled and bled. Even under those poor garage conditions it worked great for me - still does! :)

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$440 for a complete system in stainless... I guess thats fair for something US made. I'll add them to my list of vendors. Thanks for the info.

Hmm axles near the springs .. makes sense. I haven't taken a good look yet underneath to see what kind of clearances there are but I hope I can get my jack under there. Once it's on stands I'll take some pics. I plan to use Dot-5 but I didn't even consider the assembly fluid... thanks for the head up. For this summer I hope to get some miles on the dodge and start the disassembly fall/winter. Maybe get as far as a rolling chassis for next spring. The 2 car garage is looking a little small right now. I might need to expand that before we do a full disassembly. Maybe fire up the welder and build a rolling stand for the body.

Edited by dodge36MA (see edit history)
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Amigo, where is the gas tank filler neck,it extends up and over he left frame rail? I also don't see the opening for the fuel gauge sender. Might be hard to add these now!

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Amigo, where is the gas tank filler neck,it extends up and over he left frame rail? I also don't see the opening for the fuel gauge sender. Might be hard to add these now!

Geee.... I wish "amigo"s photos were put on as 'thumbnails' instead of stuck in the post. Then we could expand them and see more of what the tape is covering on the LR of the tank top. I think that may be the filler hole. But I still don't see the gauge hole! :confused:

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  • 2 months later...

post-85079-143139122282_thumb.jpgWheels of progress turn!

Stage 1 - Fuel system

I've managed to get a correct carb and new fresh in the box fuel pump. Also pulled the gas tank out. It didn't smell like death... just brown rust colored gas. The tank is pretty good shape. Has some spots where lead has been used to seal some areas but I think I'll try to keep it original. I'm not sure why the fuel delivery line comes out the front of the tank. Anyone?

The fuel line looks very pitted. Can anyone say what the correct size should be form the tank to the pump? What's a good place for adding an inline filter?

Any tricks/tips in removing the fuel pump? I have the motor manuals (blue and green) but always appreciate experience.

Stage 2 - Brakes

I have a rebuilt kit for the master and rears. Also 2 new front. If I move to DOT-5 I suppose I need to re-don the lines?

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Edited by dodge36MA (see edit history)
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