Need db truck engine code info

[Guest Danner501]

My fire department has a restored dodge brothers stake bed dually we think is a 1932 (based on the cab style). Anyone out there help with an engine code question? It has a flathead 6, but we dont know which one. The engine number is TI4-II26 and the engine serial number is 633329-2.

Thanks folks.

[Guest 1930]

If you start at post # 46 of this thread ( http://forums.aaca.org/f143/dodge-brothers-graham-brothers-trucks-282804-2.html ) and read on ( do a little digging ) maybe you will find your answer, if not than I will see if I can do a little digging.

This engine that you describe would not be be a 32 engine if I am understanding, not sure what you mean by engine serial number but most likely that will not help.

More than likely someone here will recognize the engine number from some chart but in case that does not happen how about posting some pictures of the truck and the engine. I would like to see this truck and your fire dept. labor of love

[Guest Danner501]

Hey your guidance led me to t137.com, which helped a lot. I located the serial number on the frame and it matches a model g20 or g30 built between Feb 1932 and Apr 1933. I'll get a third opinion on the number ( me and the wife so far), since it has been sand blasted and painted during restoration and didn't probably look too perfect to begin with. The truck is a dual rear wheel, so I am guessing it would not be the g20 (1 ton), but rather the 1.5 ton. I don't know much about these vehicles as you can see, but given that 1.5 ton pickups had single rear wheels it seems odd that this would only be a 1.5 ton. Does that make sense to you? The engine code begins with T14, which the table at the URL above says is a 1935 6. I added a photo of the truck for a little more info.

Thanks for the help. The volunteer firefighters here don't know a lot about mechanical origins of the truck and anything I can learn here will be good information.

[hwellens]

Agree with the above, since according to my MOPAR serial number book, the T-14 engine code was produced between May 1935 - October 1935 for 1-1/2 ton series K-32-V, K-33-V AND K-34-V Trucks and K-34-NC1 School Bus. The VIN numbers for those 1935 trucks/buses were 8,380,501 - 8,388,129 or 9,245,667 - 9,245,667.

[Guest 1930]

Hey your guidance led me to t137.com, which helped a lot. I located the serial number on the frame and it matches a model g20 or g30 built between Feb 1932 and Apr 1933. I'll get a third opinion on the number ( me and the wife so far), since it has been sand blasted and painted during restoration and didn't probably look too perfect to begin with. The truck is a dual rear wheel, so I am guessing it would not be the g20 (1 ton), but rather the 1.5 ton. I don't know much about these vehicles as you can see, but given that 1.5 ton pickups had single rear wheels it seems odd that this would only be a 1.5 ton. Does that make sense to you? The engine code begins with T14, which the table at the URL above says is a 1935 6. I added a photo of the truck for a little more info.

Thanks for the help. The volunteer firefighters here don't know a lot about mechanical origins of the truck and anything I can learn here will be good information.

Hey your truck is on fire!

That particular truck is going to be very challenging to find information on, these particular years happened to be the worst sales in D.B history to date. Most of my truck info stops at 1931 and the picks up again at 1934 so I cant give you a period correct photograph of your truck I do not believe.

The good news is though that trucks did not change a whole heck of alot if you consider the core of the vehicle. Composite body, and from what I can see a pretty standard cab as apposed to a special order job but I guess who knows what was originally behind the cab.

Original engine is gone and that a shame but if you are interested I can prob. find out what it may have originally come with.

If you have any secific questions about the truck post them here, cant guarantee that we can answer them but your odds are pretty good.

Thanks for the pic

[Guest Danner501]

Thanks for the help, folks.

Jason, I know a bit about the truck as far as ownership and use goes, but very little about the engine, etc. Sort of an interesting history for the truck. The fire department I'm in ( see westsidefire.com) bought the truck in 1942 as the first apparatus they ever had. It was a stake bed with an orchardist's wooden spray tank on it. I expect is was one with wood staves wrapped in heavy metal wire. The fire department sold it to a local guy who used it for a fire truck as part of his logging business. It eventually ended up in his barn for many years before he asked the department if they wanted in back, circa 1990s, and they accepted. He gave it to us. The fire volunteers and a local car club restored it in 1994-1998 to the condition it is in now. It spends most of it's time in the Western Antique Aeroplane and Automobile Museum in northern Oregon, which is a museum of working machines. We are starting to drive it a bit again, as it should be.

I would be real interested in what the original engine and the current engine is. Current one is number T14-1126 (the 1s look more like capital Is). It is a 23 inch head. Can you tell me the displacement, hp, torque, compression ratio and the like?

Thanks,

John

[Guest 1930]

Im gonna agree on this portion of your post above..........The truck is a dual rear wheel, so I am guessing it would not be the g20 (1 ton), but rather the 1.5 ton..........The way I am looking at it within the book is assuming you are reading the number correctly it would be the the G-30 ( 1.5 ton ) and not the G-20 ( 1 ton )

And I am not sure where you are getting this info from..........but given that 1.5 ton pickups had single rear wheels ..........In Graham /D.B earlier years the differences between dual versus single rear wheel was usually only identified by a single alphanumeric digit change within the serial #.

Please show me where you found that info of the rear wheel.

Boy this in going to be fun for you, I was able to find some info that you and your fire dept will find interesting I hope ( I also found some of the engine info you wanted as well and can prob find more )

I have to go to work, no time to scan, more later.

There is a frequent poster on here KCL you can find his username easy enough, I am surprised that he has not yet responded to this post yet. He would be able to tell you much more that I can off the top of his head concerning the particular engine that is within the truck now.

I also sent you a P.M

Edited April 25, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

BTW can you confirm that it is indeed a composite body ( wood framework with outer sheet skin nailed on ) I am quite sure it would be but I was wrong once

[Guest 1930]

Quote.........I don't know much about these vehicles ..........Dont feel bad, I dont know of anyone that does and anyone that might just are not sayin much so only with threads like this can we all benefit

[Guest 1930]

I will first re-iterate that 32 is a very tough year for me as there are not many of these trucks left and my primary study has been Dodge / Graham trucks 1917-1931. I don't want you to take any info I give you as the end all be all if it is specific to 32.

I would strongly question anyone that tells you they have all the answers concerning your truck as well though.

Just a quick ( spotted ) history for you that might entertain the boys at the fire dept, the two Dodge Brothers ( John and Horace Dodge ) started out early in the century manufacturing drive line components for Henry Fords automobiles, the earliest Ts were nearly completely manufactured at one point by the brothers with the exception of items such as glass and tires.

They were getting the shake down by Ford so they parted ways and went ahead and built their own automobile which first appeared late 1914. They did very well with their car as they had already established a reputation of honesty, integrity and high standards of workmanship.

Both Brothers died early/ young in 1920 and a longtime employee Frederick Haynes took over the reins.

Haynes saw the need and the benefit of introducing a heavy truck line so a relationship was made between himself and the three Graham Brothers whom were already having major success with their own truck line using in many cases D.B drive line components/chassis.

It might help to know that D.B up until this point had not built a heavy truck but had built light duty commercial car beginning in 1917.

The trucks being built by Graham were all composite bodies ( wood skeleton ) and it was advertised emphatically that they could build any package to suit any need. I have sales literature stacked showing more body combinations than you could imagine. You could literally have anything built by D.B/G.B corp.

Skip ahead to 1925 the Grahams were getting the screw job from the second sale of D.B corp which sold to a banking firm ( Dillon and Reid ) and they parted ways.

4th sale a short time later to Chrysler ( 1928 ) and that's when things became very confusing not only for the truck line but the autos as well.

There were three 6 cyl engines being used in the F series trucks which were the models prior to yours but continuing right up until 1934

My guess would be that the G series continued use of these same engines. I could spend a great deal more time on this ( and will over time working with you if you like ) and find some more definitive answers but at this point would have to continue suggesting that you originally had the engine derived from the original Desoto beginning in 1928 and was used in the F-10 F-30,31 series trucks, or you had the DA motor which was a little more powerful and was derived from the 28 Victory six or there originally may have been an even larger engine derived from the 1926 Imperial.

Sorry but this is all I have time for this evening as it is getting late for me, much more to come including some pictures which I think you will enjoy.

Edited April 26, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Chrycoman]

The T14-II26 is the engine serial number (126th built) whiile 633329-2 is the casting number, which may have been used for a number of engines over a number of years. Chrysler, and Studebaker, used the letter I for the number 1 over a number of years.

The T14 was also used on the 1 ton K-19-V model. The engine had a 3.25 inch bore and 3.375 inch stroke for 217.8-cid, same as the 1935 Dodge DU car.

As for your G20-21 (1 ton) or G30-31 (1.5 ton), the engineering code was DD-2. Engine size was 3.25 by 4.25 for 211.5-cid, same size engine as used in Dodge DH six.

For serial numbers, the 1932 G-20-21-30-31 models for 1932 were -

Detroit : 8480001 to 8481871

LosAngeles : 9258501 to 9258645

Windsor : no 1932 models built in Canada

1933 models were

Detroit : to 8481872 8483053

LosAngeles : 9258646 to 9258715

Windsor : 8925401 to 8925420

So, if the serial number of your truck falls into the above sequences, you do have a G series truck. The engine may have been replaced at sometime. The T14 was a newer and, more than likely, more powerful unit than the DD-2.

Bill

Toronto, ON

[Guest 1930]

I do see the engineering code now as DD-2, it is actually DD-2-E, maybe Bill or someone here would know what the E is all about.

That does make things easier than to gather information about the original engine but it should be kept in mind that although as mentioned it was the same size there would have been quite a few dis-similarities between the engine put in the car and the engine originally used in the truck.

BTW just for clarification Dan a DH was the model designation for a line of Dodge cars built approx 1931.

As mentioned via P.M if you could tell us what alphanumeric digit precedes your serial number than it will be easy enough to see what plant your truck was built in.

I failed to mention above the purpose of the short history lesson concerning Graham trucks was to bring to the surface that your truck was originally built within a plant that came about by Graham Brothers and may ( most likely ) have been built by the very same Graham Brothers employees, that's assuming that its new owners didn't run off all of the original crew.

Edited April 26, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Chrycoman]

The "E" in the engineering code stood for the capacity of the vehicle. The system first appeared with the 1930 models -

A - 1/2 ton

B - 3/4 ton

C - 1 ton

E - 1-1/2 ton

G - 2 ton

L - 3 ton

M - 4 ton

S - School bus

T - Bus in street car style (door at front curb side)

U - Bus in parlor car style (door at each row of seats)

However, just to make things interesting, it was not all cut and dried as the G-20-21-30-31 illustrates. The G20 and G21 were 1 ton while the G30 and G31 were 1-1/2 ton, yet all were "E" as far as the engineering code went.

As far as employees went, the people on the assembly line would have continued their lives as normal after the Chrysler takeover. Management would have, and did, change with Frederick Haynes being replaced by K.T. Keller as head of Dodge. A number of ranks below the top were also replaced but to replace all the people on the assembly line, which would have been in the thousands in the case of Dodge Brothers and its vast foundry, forge, body and assembly operations, would have resulted in disaster.

Thousands of experienced workers replaced by thousands of inexperienced workers would have resulted in quality problems with the final product. Of course the closing of the Lynch Road truck and moving production to Hamtramck would have resulted in layoffs, as would the depression.

What I am trying to determine was when truck production was moved from the truck plant on Lynch Road to the Hamtramck truck plant. The Lynch Road plant, built by Dodge Brothers in 1917 for war materiel production, was converted for Graham Brothers Truck production in 1925 and then for axle housing production. The plant is known today as Detroit Axle. But when?

The Lynch Road properties were purchased by Dodge Brothers and acquired by Chrysler with the takeover in 1928. The Eldon Axle plant, Winfield Foundry, Huber foundry, Graham Brothers Truck/Detroit Axle and Dodge Brothers Senior Six/Plymouth plants were all built on that chunk of land.

The Plymouth plant was a major expansion of the Dodge Brothers Senior Six plant. Again, not sure when Senior Six production was moved to Hamtramck, although it had to be in the fall of 1928.

Bill

Toronto, ON

[Guest 1930]

The "E" in the engineering code stood for the capacity of the vehicle. The system first appeared with the 1930 models -

A - 1/2 ton

B - 3/4 ton

C - 1 ton

E - 1-1/2 ton

G - 2 ton

L - 3 ton

M - 4 ton

S - School bus

T - Bus in street car style (door at front curb side)

U - Bus in parlor car style (door at each row of seats)

However, just to make things interesting, it was not all cut and dried as the G-20-21-30-31 illustrates. The G20 and G21 were 1 ton while the G30 and G31 were 1-1/2 ton, yet all were "E" as far as the engineering code went.

As far as employees went, the people on the assembly line would have continued their lives as normal after the Chrysler takeover. Management would have, and did, change with Frederick Haynes being replaced by K.T. Keller as head of Dodge. A number of ranks below the top were also replaced but to replace all the people on the assembly line, which would have been in the thousands in the case of Dodge Brothers and its vast foundry, forge, body and assembly operations, would have resulted in disaster.

Thousands of experienced workers replaced by thousands of inexperienced workers would have resulted in quality problems with the final product. Of course the closing of the Lynch Road truck and moving production to Hamtramck would have resulted in layoffs, as would the depression.

What I am trying to determine was when truck production was moved from the truck plant on Lynch Road to the Hamtramck truck plant. The Lynch Road plant, built by Dodge Brothers in 1917 for war materiel production, was converted for Graham Brothers Truck production in 1925 and then for axle housing production. The plant is known today as Detroit Axle. But when?

The Lynch Road properties were purchased by Dodge Brothers and acquired by Chrysler with the takeover in 1928. The Eldon Axle plant, Winfield Foundry, Huber foundry, Graham Brothers Truck/Detroit Axle and Dodge Brothers Senior Six/Plymouth plants were all built on that chunk of land.

The Plymouth plant was a major expansion of the Dodge Brothers Senior Six plant. Again, not sure when Senior Six production was moved to Hamtramck, although it had to be in the fall of 1928.

Bill

Toronto, ON[/quote

Thanks for the clarification Bill on the codes, I will need to study better the serial code book so I have a better understanding of it.

Have you determined what the 2 implies in the DD-2, I see frequent use of 1,2 and 3s

I was half kidding on the employee deal though.

I will keep an eye open for the information you seek and would find those answers very interesting as well myself.

Edited April 27, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Dan, it sounds like the dept, when first looking for a truck that would fit the needs of their outfit just did not have the money for this.

This is part of a Graham Brothers dealers album and although it is obviousely earlier it is naturally a D.B. I have photos of the Graham D.B fire trucks in these albums all the way to 1930 I believe but I am short on time tonight ( again ) so hopefully you will still enjoy this one

Edited February 23, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest Danner501]

Folks - thanks for the interesting information. Here are some answers to your questions:

I don't know if I'd say the body was wrapped around wood, but there is wood between the body and the frame.

You asked about the letter prefix on the serial number. I assume you refer to the number on the plate affixed to the engine side of the firewall. Well, that was painted during the restoration (I have no idea why), but I was able to do a pencil rubbing and see that the prefix is a "D", which I beleive is for Detroit. This is consistent with the serial number on the frame, which is in the range that Bill listed. Boy, you folks have really provided a lot of information in a short period of time.

You may be right, the fire district may have been well served by an American LaFrance engine. One of our local mutual aid departments has a 1920 American LaFrance engine. I attached a photo of it and our Dodge Brothers truck at a recent event at the local museum (sorry about the upside down one). The American LaFrance also runs and still pumps water.

The Dodge Brothers in now in my garage with its transmission, clutch, and flywheel removed so we can reduce the oil leak at the rear main seal. It should be on the road again shortly, though. If we can take care of the rear main seal (for which a friend is machining a part), it will still have a few small oil leaks, but will be a pretty good runner other than that. I'd like to know how to set the points and timing if anyone knows about that.

john

[sally.opp]

Hi - Wow, I am very glad I found this website.  I am getting help on another more frequent forum, but wanted to let you know I discovered the title of our 1933 Dodge Brothers is incorrect from this forum!  The Engine Number I have is T29230 (which the title said the VIN was) and the VIN is 8490625 - other numbers are also B 22 K 61 45.... My grandpa gave this old truck to my dad for his Construction Company & our mechanics have been helping to care for it and we have been using it in parades.  We recently decided that my grandpa would be ok with us selling it (he has passed) as none of us are really knowledgeable about it and the employees have been wanting the warehouse space.  We know nothing about it but after a day belonging to this i feel like I know WAY more.  

 

Thanks!   If anyone knows anything else please feel free to share - learning all of this makes me feel a little worse for wanting to sell this old truck.  

[30DodgePanel]

Assuming you have this chart already ?

 

Do you know if it's the 131" or 157" wheelbase ?

Looks like it's a 131" but hard to tell just by looking at photos...

 

Nice truck and good luck with the sale.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[broberts]

 

I'd like to get some assistance (and double checking) of the truck and engine information for my 1935 KH-32 V:

 

    body tag: B-3-0-LR15988

        B-3-0 = cab for a chassis cowl KH-32V (mid size truck with just the sheet metal from the dash forward, no windshield)

        15988 = sequential number in B-3-0 sequence

 

    build date: between June and October 1935

 

    engine numbers

        casting date: 8-12 = August 12, 1935????

        casting number (is this the correct term?): 882929-2 = ????

        engine number (left side of engine block, at front, below the cylinder head): T-13-7512

            T = truck engine

            T13: Make = Dodge Truck, Model = KH 16-18-V, KH 21-23-V, KH31-33-V

            Year = 1935

            512th engine built????

        lower casting (is this the correct term?): 107 = ????

 

    engineering code: T-13-E

        T = truck, 23" long, 201 ci

        E = 1-1/2 ton

 

    serial number: 8239904