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1947 Buick Series 50 conv. hydraulic pump problem


Guest craftsmen22

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Guest craftsmen22

At our 1947 Buick, the hydraulic hose in the passsenger door was broken and therefore I replaced it. After reasembling all, I noticed that the passenger window would not operate from the driverside switch. So I sent the switch to hydro-e-lectric, and they fixed it.

Now, the other day we installed the switch, but same problem, no control of the passenger window from driver side. So we played a bit around an coincidental we found out, that if we push both knobs up or down (driver and passenger) the passenger side window moves up and down, too. But using only the driver side passenger window switch alone, will do nothing on the passenger window. From passenger door, passenger window works fine. We can't believe, that it was from original, to work on passenger window from driver side, you have to push both knobs up or down.:confused:

The other problem is the speed of the windows going up. The top moves fairly well, but i.O. to get the windows all the way up, you have to help by pulling with your hand. From hydro-e-lectric I got a new spring for the pump and new washers. So I tried, new spring, old spring, two washers, four, six, eight, all sorts of arrangements, but no success. The best shot is the old spring and six or seven washers. But I have to admit not to read the manual correctly, the top was not all the way down when I did change washers. On the other side I don't think that it makes such a difference.:(

So would anyone know how to get started to solve this problem, and where would I get a pressure manometer to read the pumps pressure.

Regards,

Tom

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If all of the windows are slow, then the problem is in or near the pump. If only one window is slow, the problem is with that window. If the car sat for many years, your pump may be sludged up inside. I recently took apart the pump in my '50 Roadmaster and found that the recirculating ball was nearly frozen. I used carburetor cleaner to clean out the rust and sludge around the ball, and to clean all of the fluid passages in the pump, and now all of the windows work very well. I also cleaned and wire-brushed all of the electrical connections on the pump and its solenoid.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, Tx.

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Guest craftsmen22

Hi Pete,

thank you for your reply, how hard was it to take out the pump. Do you have a manual which shows how to open up the pump.

Tom

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Tom,

I want to pass along some information that may be helpful for solving the hydraulic system problem in your '47 convertible.

First of all, the very best pump repair information I've come across was in the early 50's MOTORS auto repair manuals. The section on Automatic Window Lifts gives you a great explanation on how the system works as well as instructions on pump disassembly. If you can purchase or borrow one of these, it will really help.

The pumps can be tricky but not extremely difficult to work on. Many of the parts that can wear and give you trouble are available thru Hydro-E-Lectric.

The pump should develop around 250psi and you will need some special "inverted flare" fittings to tee into the system with a guage. The fittings are the same as those commonly used on brake lines.

Another thing to keep in mind while troubleshooting is when you operate a switch to close the window two things happen:

1. The pump is powered up.

2. An electrically operated solenoid valve at the cylinder opens to allow the pressurized fluid to enter the cylinder and raise the window against the spring tension.

When you open the window one thing happens:

1. The solenoid valve opens and the spring tension pulls the cylinder piston

down forcing the oil out and back to the reservoir.

I hope this is of some help to you. Feel free to contact me if you have other questions.

Mike

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Guest craftsmen22

Hi Mike,

thank you for the info, can you name me the correct title of the early 50s Motor Manual. Is it an own brand or one of the manuals of that time.

And is it correct that both windows move when we push both switches, but pushing only passenger side will not work at all?

Can a wrecked pump cause such a habit?

Where could I get a pressure gauge together with the correct fitting?

Best regards,

Tom

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Tom,

It sounds to me that you might have a missing or bad connection between the two switches on the drivers door. Both switches should have power. Either switch should turn on the pump and the switch for the drivers door should open then solenoid on the window cylinder for the driver and the passenger switch likewise for the passenger door. Might check the "jumper" plates between the switches and make sure that they aren't insulated from the posts. Could be that they might be centered just right so they aren't touching anything??

Matt:D

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest craftsmen22

So we made some progress on working on the pump system last week. Quite intersting is, the car was parked on a ramp, and my buddy checked the top and the windows. Top and windows worked perfectly, but once the car was standing straight, the top was about half fast as on the ramp and the windows only came up half way, and no more. Because of that, we believe that there is air in the system, since I installed a new hose to the window cylinder passenger door. Would anyone of the members here know how to bleed the hydraulic sytem on the 1947 Buick series 50 super 8 convertible?

Thank you,

Tom

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Guest Straight eight

Start with the top, the pump will race when it gets air, continue operating until the operation smooths out. The battery needs the charger hooked to it while running the pump, or the engine running at a speed slightly above idle, about 500-750 rpms.

Are you using brake fluid as stated in the manual, or have you flushed the system and converted to Auto trans fluid?

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Guest craftsmen22

We still use brake fluid, and running the pump for a long time leaves the pump hot. Would it harm the pump, once we open and close the top about ten times? We did open and close the top for about 15 minutes, but the pump sounded normal, but overall impression was: car parked in an angle, systems works, car parked leveled system is slow.

Another thing we noticed: after refilling the reservoir with new break fluid and operating the top about five times and taking down the reservoir after, we found dirty brake fluid in the reservoir bucket. So we change it again and after a while we check the brake fluid in the reservoir, dirty again.

So, could dirty brake fluid cause the same problems?

Regards,

Tom

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Tom,

I believe your problem may be due to incorrect fluid level in the system. With the car on ramps the fluid may level may be "deeper" towards the pump suction pickup. The correct fluid level must exist in the reservoir when the windows are down, seat is back and top is down.

I'm not surprised that the fluid is dirty, after all, a lot old crud can accumulate in there after 60+ years. Flushing it the way you are doing will help get some of the sediment out of there.

If you have a shop manual for the car, refer to the Hydro-Electric Power System section for instructions on how to flush the system with alcohol. Cycling the windows and top is the correct method to bleed the air out. Let me know if you do not have a manual and I will copy the information from mine and mail it to you.

Regards,

Mike Lawson

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Have you checked the suction tube and end pick-up piece on the tube? It sounds like the brake fluid may have caused a small hole in the tube, thus the problem you are having. I may be wrong, but that is where I see this going. You might not be able to see it if the fender is still on the car. You might even consider changing over to ATF fluid, as it is less corrosive. Matt:D

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just replaced all my hydraulic cylinders and bleeding was not an issue. I left the hose fittings a little loose at first. When I saw leakage under pressure I tightened the fittings.

15 top actuation is WAY too excessive. Mine worked fine after two. just make sure you dont run low on pump fluid. I agree that there sounds like a leak on your pump intake tube. Cant think of anything else the level of the car would affect.

Phil

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Guest Straight eight

As an afterthought, there was a running change in the pump mid 1947.. Early pumps ran at less pressure,(think the pressure was 180 lbs.) and the windows used only one spring to lower the windows.

This resulted in too slow operation in the winter, so GM changed em to two springs, and increased the pump pressure to 250 lbsl.

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