Restoring cars for a living

[Guest PunkRivi63]

Currently I am starting my first restoration on a 63 Riviera. I want to restore cars as a profession. At the moment I work for Acura as a Technician 2years exp. Everyone on here seems to know the industry much better than I so figured this would be a good place to ask about getting into the classic stuff. Im trying to pick up a welder to learn as well as starting bodywork on my Rivi.Past that Im a little lost as to what else I need to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[CarlLaFong]

Find a restoration shop that is looking for a "gofer" and start pushing a broom and paying attention. Restoring cars is not something that you can just pick up or teach yourself, unless you have mad skills. You need to be a skilled welder, bodyman, painter, mechanic, parts chaser, etc. before you can tackle the big stuff. Being a tech at an Acura dealer is great, but there is not a lot of real world experience that can carry over to restoring antiques

[jscheib]

PunkRivi63,

You might consider McPherson College that ofer full time degree in Restoration, and possibly start with a summer course. The rouite suggested by John, above, also makes sense. And local night courses in welding should help, rather then on your own trail and error.

John

[Steve_Mack_CT]

NOT to discourage you in any way, but ask yourself two critical questions first:

1) assuming you are a trained Acura tech now, what is your future goal as a restoration specialist? If you aspire to own a shop you should be realistic in asking yourself if dealing with slow paying, demanding clients, bad help, increased government regulations, supplier issues, rent, payroll, etc. is something you really want. It may very well be, as some folks were just born to work for themselves. If so, go for it.

2) If you want to restore cars as an employee, ask yourself if you are willing to follow a different financial path, I am pretty sure most dealer technicians out-earn independent mechanics, and while not an expert, I belive restoration shop staff are likely generally iin the middle of that range. A labor of love, yes, but you will likely work for a much smaller entity with the advantages and disadvantages that go with that.

There are a couple of very knowledgeable pros on this site who may chime in and tell me I am nuts, but I just wanted to focus a bit on the "whole life impact".

Of course, they say if you work on your passion you never work a day in your life. Also, if you are a young person, now is the time to take that kind of chance, if you are a decent Acura tech now you can always go back in say 5 years, right?

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your career and your Buick. John, by the way, knows a lot about those cars, be really nice to him!

[1937hd45]

I'd highly recommend you keep this as a hobby and find something else to pay the bills. Hobby money is gone for most people in this economy and I don't see it coming back. How many people on this Forum can pay $75.00-$100.00 per hour Restoration Shop rates? Yes, I work at a restoration shop. Bob

[Amphicar BUYER]

I restore Amphicars exclusively. I got into it by accident after being laid off 14 times from several companies during my hi-tech career over the years (one company after 10+ years another after 6 and another after 8) and I still needed to pay my bills. I restored my 1st Amphi and then was asked to do a friends and so on...

Restoring anything (cars, boats, tables... ANYTHING!) in an art form and not suited for everyone. Take some classes at a reputable school, push a broom someplace and pay attention 1st. As an art form it must be cultivated and honed. The details that most may never notice or can't be seen are what sets you apart. You have to be able to not only make it pretty, but functional and "correct" as well. You have to have an understanding of outdated technology and be able to find or make parts and repair assemblies you've never seen. There are so many different finishes and you must know what and where they are and how they are applied.

Customers are more of a P.I.T.A. than the car will ever be. I have been fortunate that my customers have been awesome and most became my friends. I am a small specialized shop doing a couple cars a year (except this year I'm doing 3 all at once.) I am able to offer a personalized service. Two of my current customers are having serious health issues so I have sped up the process for them. This summer may be the last for them so I have to try to give them something to look forward to and as their situation progresses, something to look back on.

In short, take the time to educate yourself in all aspects of the industry. With that in mind you can decide if you want to specialize in a particular make or be a jack of all trades. Know your limitations! I do everything except paint/body, interior and rebuilding engines/trans as those are best left to those with the experience and special tools needed. You will have to spend BIG$ to accumulate the tools to do a good job. The end result is directly related to the tools you have available.

If you start out with a plan for your career early, you will have a better chance to be a success. Good luck and I hope you are able to make it. BTW, be prepared to never have a nicely restored of your own! There will not be time for your own stuff.

[poci1957]

In my old car life I have observed that there is a disconnect that:

Prices are high enough that a middle class guy cannot generally afford to pay a restoration shop.

BUT a guy working for a restoration shop will not make that much money.

AND the owner of the restoration shop is not getting rich either.

It seems there are two basic restoration shop business models. One is a larger shop with 5-10 employees or more so you get a little economy of scale in paying for your overhead. But these larger shops thus HAVE high overhead and are less common now since they must have a steady flow of projects. The other model seems to be one or two guys working out of a garage somewhat "off the grid" so they can offer lower hourly rates and keep expenses to a minimum. Either way is potentially a much less stable job than working for a retail car dealership (especially with the need for health insurance and such). Your basic initial experience now is a good start--you have kept a job for 2 years and learned how to work with and for others and deal with customers some. Your next step would be to find a small shop and hire on to work with a restorer. As the other guys said you can always go back to work as a dealer tech, now would be the time to see if you like restoration work. Then you can decide your long term plan. And read the comments of AmphicarBuyer above, his are words of wisdom on this. Good luck, Todd C

[alsancle]

Restorations make little economic sense in almost all cases even when you start with a free car. What that means is that the guy having his car restored is going to get into a bad mood quickly, regardless of how competent the restorer is. This is not a good business to be jumping in to.

If you a really interested get an entry level job in an existing shop and learn what it is all about.

[1935Packard]

If we're discussing the restoration business generally, it does seem quite cyclical. People restore cars either when they have lots of money sitting around or else when they have an emotional reason to restore a particular car and times are good; when the economy goes south, the business runs into hard times, too.

With that said, the business of running a classic car repair shop seems like a pretty promising business. Antique cars always need something, even when the economy is down. Over time fewer and fewer classic car owners have the know-how to keep them on the road themselves -- and fewer and fewer repair shops can help. There is going to be a greater need in the future for regional classic car repair shops that service the classic cars in the area. They don't need to be marque specialists or do full restorations; they just need to be able to do basic repairs on a wide range of antique cars.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[TexRiv_63]

As you see from the responses so far there are a lot of opinions. I am not qualified to advise you on the business part of restoration but I will not be negative about your goal. I am happy to see you starting with a 63 Riviera and I think restoring a car of your own is a great way to get involved in the process and learn some of the challenges. I agree with the others that recommend college classes and real world experience in a shop, not only do you have to be very competent in all the specialties involved but you have to develop a deep network of knowledge and contacts for the cars you intend to specialize in. If you intend to work with true prewar Classics that becomes a very rarified group to be in, people with those types of vehicles will require your reputation to be spotless and your references glowing before they will trust you with their cars. I say go for it but it will take time and a lot of effort. Good luck!

[Restorer32]

Years ago I heard an ex restorer say he quit the business because it bothered him every time he drove a customer's $200,000 restored car past his starving wife and child.

[Guest PunkRivi63]

Thank you guys for the great advice and not bashing my goals. I know this is something I want to do and will put forth the effort for.

As far as schooling goes I went to community college for automotive starting age 17. I graduated top of my class at age 19 where I was hired straight out of school at Acura.Yes I am a certified tech and understandthe shop and costs that go into tools and so forth.

There is a local school that teaches Autobody and Paint at nights for a year long program that Ill have to check out.

Aa far as welding goes my roomate was a welder for 8 years and is more than jappy to teach me plus im supposed to start working on weekends at a jeep shop and race team to learn to fabricate, if I can weasel out of working 6day weeks somehow.

This is all something that Id like to do young before I become to engrained in a certian area of the industry.

Edited April 12, 2012 by PunkRivi63
Hit post too soon (see edit history)

[poci1957]

There is a local school that teaches Autobody and Paint at nights for a year long program that Ill have to check

That would be a good idea, you could study that to add to your skills and look for a shop to work in while keeping your regular job. Painting practice in a restoration shop is different from a production bodyshop, but knowledge of the products and systems still applies. And frankly most of the work in restoring cars is related to bodywork and painting.

Actually it is not out of the question that you might find an aging restorer (aren't we all?) who would like the idea of teaching his skills to a younger man, possibly with the idea of selling his business to him upon retirement. Keep open to any possibilities and good luck, Todd C

[earl e rizer]

Being a mechanical tech at an Acura shop is a whole lot different than working on rusty old cars. Please spend as much time as possible working in a body shop doing grunt work as you can squeeze in before you quit your job. I don't think its a bad choice, just get as much reality in your life before you change careers. There will be a lot of satisfaction from a job well done, but that doesn't always translate into monetary success.

Remember that a $50,000 resto on a $10,00 old car will get you back about 50% most times.

[avgwarhawk]

If you were to open a shop I would suggest expanding into things other than just restoration. Custom work is something many seek. I think you will have a steady flow of custom work over restoration work. Both generating income. I have a friend that works exclusively on F Body GM. Power, performance and customization is his main bread and butter. He could certainly restore any vehicle as well.

[jscheib]

A bit more advice. When you say "jeep shop", I think you are talking about an "off-road" type operation. Perhaps not the high quality finish of a restoration shop, but I have seen a few of these guys with some pretty nice looking rigs that get dragged through the mid and dirt. So, I think that an excellent way to learn. Even if the pay there is small, or none, ypu will gain experience.

John

[Restorer32]

I will likely get some argument over this but you will find that IN GENERAL street rod types will bring work to a restoration shop but restoration to original types will seldom bring work to a

shop known primarily for street rod work. We have been restoring for 33 years now and even in this economy have had no problem keeping 7 employees busy. Stay flexible but set your standards and don't deviate from them. We all like to work on high end Classics and do Concours quality work but you need to provide a variety of services to keep your shop full. Keep your hourly rate as low as you can, the bills add up fast enough even at a low rate. Don't fall into the trap of making your customers think that the cost of restoration has anything to do with the ultimate resale value of their car. We NEVER discuss the before or after value of a customer's car. We tell EVERY potential customer that they can likely buy a restored example of their car less expensively than they can restore theirs. We sell our services by the hour. Customers are free to purchase as few or as many of our hours as they like. If they purchase enough hours to complete the restoration that's great. If not then that's OK too. If you are good at what you do, honest with people and give them an hour's work for an hour's pay you'll do well. Don't underestimate the amount of operating capital you will need to stay in business and keep the bills paid while you are waiting for those monthly checks from your customers. You will find that you will have far more trouble over the years attracting and keeping talented employees than you will have finding work. Working on old cars is fun. Operating a business is irritatingly not fun. You won't get rich but you might earn a decent living. Oh yea, one last thing...virtually every new customer will tell you they aren't looking for a show quality restoration but rather just a nice driver but yet they will have the car registered for a show before the job is even finished. We also explain this phenomenon to potential new customers. We were contracted to restore a driver quality '59 Cadillac convertible 3 or so years ago. The owner swore and declared that he was the exception and would NEVER show the car in competition. Well...1st Junior at Canandaigua AACA show, Senior at Hershey, 98.17 points out of 100 and Best in Class at the CLC Grand National in Columbus and the car is now back being prepped for the AACA Grand National in Tennessee and is already scheduled for the 2013 CLC meet in Boston. The owner is obsessed with getting those last 1.83 points. Your experience may vary.

[Dandy Dave]

I agree with a lot that has been said. I think job one will be to prove yourself. No one is going to let you under the hood of their 1933 V12 Pierce Arrow Roadster unless you have a good track record that you can do the job at hand no mater how big or small the repair may be.

You need to find your nitch. I, myself am an engine, drivetrain, and electical wiring and component problem solver. I have done some body work but make no claims of being an expert in that part of the field. I do have a machinest background and do make some parts from time to time that are no longer available. (See my theads on making 1915 Buick Axles.) I love Brass era cars in paticular. I've been self employed for years but do not stick to early cars only. I have done a lot of repairs and restoration to tractors and machinery which do not require the body work finnish of a $300,000 dollar true classic.

I guess, in a nut shell, what I am trying to say is that it is very hard to be good at every aspect of the restoration trade. Find what you like to do, and what you are good at, and stick with it. The rest you will need to hire out, or have it "made out of shop." Like Chrome for instance. not everyone can do it in house. Maybe someday you will come up with the equipment and you find that you will like to see your handiwork become show quality chrome. This would be a spin off of body and drive train restorating and may bring in the income to keep everything moving for the rest of the shop. You are doing alright by spreading your wings and trying different fields of the trade. Time will tell where you really shine. Just some friendy advice from an old wrench puller. :cool: Dandy Dave!

[R W Burgess]

...... The owner swore and declared that he was the exception and would NEVER show the car in competition.............. Well...1st Junior at Canandaigua AACA show, Senior at Hershey, 98.17 points out of 100 and Best in Class at the CLC Grand National in Columbus and the car is now back being prepped for the AACA Grand National in Tennessee and is already scheduled for the 2013 CLC meet in Boston. The owner is obsessed with getting those last 1.83 points. Your experience may vary.

Jeff, I would say that is a testament to the quality of your shop's work. From a driver to a show winner, what better advertising for your company?

[1937hd45]

As a shop employee I've never understood how this is agreed to. I can do "Show Quality" work and know what "Driver" and "Race Car Quality" is, and absolutlely hated it when a driver restoration got upgraded to "Show" half way through the restoration. How can your driver Caddy score that high if it was in fact a driver? A straight but rust pitted inner fender panel can be blasted, primed and painted and look OK for a driver with visable pitting, but it was flat and smooth "As New". Have the judges started to slack off of the Late Model cars or are your "Driver" restorations a step above others? Bob

We were contracted to restore a driver quality '59 Cadillac convertible 3 or so years ago. The owner swore and declared that he was the exception and would NEVER show the car in competition. Well...1st Junior at Canandaigua AACA show, Senior at Hershey, 98.17 points out of 100 and Best in Class at the CLC Grand National in Columbus and the car is now back being prepped for the AACA Grand National in Tennessee and is already scheduled for the 2013 CLC meet in Boston. The owner is obsessed with getting those last 1.83 points. Your experience may vary.

[alsancle]

Bob, has that happened often? I've seen more of the "show quality" getting downgraded to "driver quality".

Of course this points out another problem in the restoration business. The customer dictates the level of work. If the customer dictates a "driver level" of restoration that reflects against a "show quality" restorer down the road. This especially happens when the car moves between shops as the second shop will find all kinds of things wrong with the first shop - it is a law of human nature.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Jeff knows his stuff but one comment left me wondering - it has to be a tough balance to "have standards and not deviate" AND provide a variety of services. It seems to me those two goals are in conflict, yet to not starve you kind of have to figure that balance out, right?

Bob, will your place allow such a change mid-stream? My guess is the business reason is they would rather accomodate the client than see them pull the car, but each situation is unique, I would guess.

The situation A.J. describes is why it seems a few shops won't do driver level work for just that reason. It almost seems like it would warrent operating under two names to help with "branding" issues as A.J. describes. It seems to me like the cost differential on average would be around 100%? (which to me, seems reasonable, and just a guess on my part.)

[keiser31]

In my opinion, if you don't restore cars for the love of them, you will never get satisfaction from them....financially or otherwise. I thought about starting a restoration shop once or twice, but I realized that there were way too many circumstances about it that I would not have control of. People run out of money, get divorced, pass away, etc. and then there you are....trying to get paid or compensated in some way for all of the work you have done instead of being tied up in some lien sale.....or worse.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yep, it goes both ways. A club member is anxiously awaiting the finishing touches on his '40 or '41 Dodge convertible, 10 years, 3 restorers and $100K later, still not quite perfect. I do not know all of the circumstances leading to the 3 shops, but at least one instance was a one man show, and the gentleman passed away. Last guy did redo some of the prior shop's work. BUt he is still excited to finally enjoy the car, which is what it is all about, right?

[Restorer32]

We do have basic standards we won't deviate from. We will not paint a car unless we are allowed to strip it to bare metal. We will only do metalwork the right way by fabricating panels, butt welding them and grinding the welds flush, that sort of thing. I put it to customers this way. "You say it doesn't have to be perfect so tell me what things you would like us not do do to the best of our ability?" They seldom can answer that question. By driver quality I generally mean leaving things undone, not doing lesser quality work and possibly using a less expensive paint, that sort of thing.

One other thing. I post a lot on these forums. I enjoy working on old cars and I enjoy talking about them and I know that I often come off as shamelessly advertising our shop. I don't really mean to come off that way. I think we do good quality work but certainly no better than many other experienced shops. What we really sell is patience. Virtually anyone can learn the skills necessary to do what we do. Please excuse my exuberance. We've worked on quite a range of vehicles over the years and have tackled many problems and I enjoy giving advice when I can, sometimes when it isn't even solicited.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Not at all Jeff, FWIW it amazes me we have a couple of pros here who enjoy sharing advice, opinions and stories. You should not apologize for being active on the board and knowledgeable.

Your answer just educated me on how you approach customers, which is interesting.

I have spoken to some restorers who say the last place they want to spend a weekend is at a car show, and you know what, I can see that also.

this is a pretty interesting thread, hope the OP takes a lot out of it...

[poci1957]

One other thing. I post a lot on these forums. I enjoy working on old cars and I enjoy talking about them and I know that I often come off as shamelessly advertising our shop.

Hello Jeff, I never think that. Like Steve above I think we are all grateful to have a few pros like yourself here in the group willing to share their advice and experience. And your customers should be grateful to be able to work with someone devoted to old cars and not just trying to make a buck. Todd

[Restorer32]

Last place my wife wants to spend a weekend is at a car show. I judge every chance I get. I would be looking at retiring because of progressing arthritis but happily my Son, now 28, has been working with me since he graduated school and is slowly but surely taking over, which is why I can spend so much time on these forums. I also know some restorers who look at it strictly as a business but what fun is that? If this work wasn't fun I wouldn't be doing it. There are many, many easier ways to earn a living. Besides, my degree is actually in Archaeology and I consider myself an Industrial Archaeologist. Sounds better in my Alumni Guide than "Guy who works on old cars".

[1937hd45]

There at least THREE degrees of "Restoration" Shop owner, customer and the employee. I've only been an employee, and it has payed to keep my mouth shut and do as I'm told, even if the car is the one to suffer. Whenever new tires and tubes were installed in pre 1936 vehicles with rubber valve stems I knew that I'd get to swap them within a month for the proper metal ones, and I'm sure the customer got charged twice. I still don't know when it is OK to stop block sanding for a "Driver" paint job vs. a "Proper" paint job, same with door gaps. The end of the week pay doesn't differ either way. Bob:rolleyes:

Bob, has that happened often? I've seen more of the "show quality" getting downgraded to "driver quality".

Of course this points out another problem in the restoration business. The customer dictates the level of work. If the customer dictates a "driver level" of restoration that reflects against a "show quality" restorer down the road. This especially happens when the car moves between shops as the second shop will find all kinds of things wrong with the first shop - it is a law of human nature.

[Guest PunkRivi63]

I am learning so much from this thread. More than talking to people at local shows who dont seem to like talking to a young guy thats not in there group. After thinking about the comments made about not trying to do every aspect I realize how right you guys are. I like pulling engines and doing drivetrain work and also really like fabricating. I think that is what I will try to specialize in and go from there. Its always awesome to talk to guys that have been restoring cars for awhile and the wealth of knowledge on forums such as this.

[Coley]

I would encourage you to find out which parts of a car you like to work on and specialize in that field.

I worked as a tech for 10 years before I started my own full time restoration shop.

I worked for Ford, GM and American Motors and took every schooling class they offered.

Back then we had to be able to repair all of the parts on a car, not just stick on a rebuilt one.

After running it for 10 years I decided it was better money and a lot easier on my mind to work on parts that were not easy to find for the type of cars I was restoring.

Now I do only casting work reproducing parts and it is much better than trying to find good help, overseeing their work, trying to educate a first time restoration owner as to the cost of his project, explaining to him why his car is going to cost 50+% more than it will ever be worth on the market, etc.

I find that making different parts is very time consuming and the requires much research to make them as well as the casting systems changes that come along.

Also, think about what the customers do for a living that can afford to pay you what it will cost and maybe follow their lead. Then do restorations for a hobby.

What is really fun is to have a customer want to bring a car in that he started to "restore" ten+ years ago and now needs help putting it together.

He didn't take any pictures, draw details, or catalog parts as he removed (lost ) them.

I don't miss that at all.

What I do like is having a restoration shop contact me for a few parts for a car thay are doing.

White Post restoration is a shop you should visit to see how a place should be run.

I make parts for them and went to one of their shows to see their place.

I got to see finished cars that I had made parts for. Very nice.

Starting out as a hobby is the best way, as you can gather tools and experience to actually see if it is what you want to do, for a full time job.

Much luck to you, which ever way you wish to go.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Coley (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Virtually anyone can learn the skills necessary to do what we do.

I dissagree. Not everyone has an analytical- mechanical mind, or the patients to do what we do. Or the drive to fix things that are not easy to fix or find parts for. To fix a skipping, poor running engine you need to, "have a ear" for the task. Especially on old vehicles built before the days of the computer and being able to plug it in. Is it electrical? A carbuetor problem, or fuel supply problem. Maybe it is a valve problem. Not everyone has the gift to listen to it and know where to start looking just by the sound it is making. I guess that is why we get hired to fix them up. :cool: Dandy Dave!

Edited April 14, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[D Yaros]

I am learning so much from this thread. More than talking to people at local shows who dont seem to like talking to a young guy thats not in there group.

I really find your observation concerting, as well as disconcerting. We need "young blood" in the hobby and certainly should be receptive and encouraging, not dismissive. Hopefully your experience is not the norm for all of us old car guys?

I do not know where you are located, but if you are in SE WI, you are welcome anytime to come on by, eyeball, ask and help!

[alsancle]

I dissagree. Not everyone has an analytical- mechanical mind, or the patients to do what we do. Or the drive to fix things that are not easy to fix or find parts for. To fix a skipping, poor running engine you need to, "have a ear" for the task. Especially on old vehicles built before the days of the computer and being able to plug it in. Is it electrical? A carbuetor problem, or fuel supply problem. Maybe it is a valve problem. Not everyone has the gift to listen to it and know where to start looking just by the sound it is making. I guess that is why we get hired to fix them up. :cool: Dandy Dave!

+1. Like everything in life, there are those that have talent, those that have work ethic, and a few that have both.

Again, not to discourage anyone's dream, but this is something that needs to be approached slowly and incrementally. I would suggest again working after hours or weekends at an existing shop for slave labor to get a feel for things.

Again, Again, there are easier ways in life to make a living. Remember, cars won't be as much fun when it's your job 10 hours a day.

[Guest PunkRivi63]

I wish I could take you up on that offer but Im in Arizona just a little bit away.

As far as the job goes cars are already my job 10 hours a day just happens to be working on new cars not old ones.

[1937hd45]

I will NEVER understand how electricity works, and there isn't a person in the world that can teach it, it is a God given ability. Bad bulb, sure, but if it is something else I'm at a loss, I worry about fires that it starts in Vintage cars. I can make body panels and do award winning paint work, that some electrical guys are clueless about so I guess it evens things out.

[carbking]

I would agree with those who have suggested determining what area of restoration you enjoy, and possibly specialize. You can even begin some "component restoration" working out of your home.

I have no crystal ball, but would ask you to at least consider how many years you plan to work, and then how long you feel restoration shops will be required. At present, we could (we won't) hire several more employees to restore carburetors. I have no clue how long it will last, but at your age, definately something to consider.

But by doing component restorations, your initial outlay for tools, inventory, tech manuals, etc. would be managable; and you could keep your day job until either your new business snowballed, or you decide maybe the restoration game is not something you want to do every day.

Which ever way you decide to go, make a point of letting the work decide the cost; NEVER let the cost decide the work! Do it right, and you might have a complaint about your prices. Do it cheap, and you WILL have complaints about your quality.

My opinion, others will differ.

Jon.

[Dandy Dave]

I will NEVER understand how electricity works, and there isn't a person in the world that can teach it, it is a God given ability. Bad bulb, sure, but if it is something else I'm at a loss, I worry about fires that it starts in Vintage cars. I can make body panels and do award winning paint work, that some electrical guys are clueless about so I guess it evens things out.

I guess you would make a lousy plumber also...:eek: but with that said....

You and I would make a hell of a good team if we lived only a little closer. :cool: Just leave the nuts and bolts of the motors, drive trains, and electrical stuff to me and you just go along and do that beautiful body work you so much enjoy. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Guest Phil Cordery]

A very difficult trade to enter, I would sugest specializing in one Make & model only, & sub specialize in some aspect of that car, i.e wiring, bodywork, trim Paint etc etc. I personally restore cars for my own use & for a living specialise in the Complete Rewire of pre war & vintage Rolls Royce & bentley motor cars, even after a lifetime on these cars you are always learning, beware of the man who knows everything. I work from Home & always with only maybe 1-2 months work ahead. Good Luck with your Venture at least time is on your side.

[Dandy Dave]

Beware of the man who knows everything.

Ain't that the truth! Dandy Dave!