License plates

[RivNut]

I just finished registering this plate for my '64. Anyone besides me think it's appropriate?

[steelman]

Love it, love it, love it. Is this a real tag you found or one you had made?

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

Thats GREAT !!

[RivNut]

The folks at the DMV think it's real and so should you.

If you're so inclined, visit 1965 OKLAHOMA STATE LICENSE PLATE--EMBOSSED WITH YOUR CUSTOM NUMBER

I was lucky. There's an Edwards County in KS (ED) and the number 4747 (Riviera - Model 47; 2dr Hardtop - code 47 for all Buicks - is the same as appears on my Fisher body plate) was unsued on any other plate in Kansas. The year was a no brainer.

It's very possible that I found the original tag that did exist at one time somewhere in Edwards Cty, KS and had it restored.

Ed

Edited April 6, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest carlbraun]

Ed

I dig it!

Here's a shot of my 65 Riv with black California plates and the mandatory frame from REYNOLDS Buick in West Covina

[Glassesguy]

Perfect, Ed. Congrats on finding it!!

[JZRIV]

Ed

I dig it!

Here's a shot of my 65 Riv with black California plates and the mandatory frame from REYNOLDS Buick in West Covina

Carl - Can you please explain what you mean by "mandatory frame"

Ed - Nice work that true Riv enthusiats will appreciate.

[Guest carlbraun]

Reynopld Buick is the Buick equivelent of Yenko to Chevy owners, Grand-Spaulding to Mopar owners and Tasca to Ford owners.

they are offering cool t shirts now and have asked them to condier re-issuing the metal plate frames and the vintage key fobs too.

check em out here

Reynolds Buick Racing

[60FlatTop]

Here's my 1964 New York State World's Fair Pate. It has a unique number and NY was rear plate only at the time.

Being an old Trekkie, I also have this famous license plate frame, sure would like the California plate!

Bernie

[RivNut]

On the '63 Rivera for sure - don't know about '64 and later - a "license plate frame" was part of the standard equipment. How many of you still have this frame? It's a very simple rolled stainless frame that just covers about 1/4" of the outside of the plate. You slipped the plate into it from the side, there were no bolt holes on it. When I had to have a rear end "bump" fixed on my '63, that frame disappeared at the body shop. If anyone has one, I'd be interested in it.

Thanks,

Ed

[John]

Ed, Is this the style you are looking for? This one came out of a Buick dealer but may be older style than used on 1st generation Rivs?

John

[RivNut]

John,

Similar but not like the Riv's. This one looks adjustable; do the corner sections slide in and out of the center sections? The one that came on the Riviera was a one piece item with smooth sides - very narrow.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera people: You aren't going to like this because I am about to rain on many people's parade. The black plate entire license thing is entirely mythology. I mean who really cares what the plate is as long as it's legit. After a recent long discussion of restoration with one of the most anal people I have ever met, even he admitted that there are so many contradictions to period, period correct, authentic and everything else that things can be confusing.

I say, after making your old Riv (or any thing else for that matter) safe and reliable, just

get in your car and drive it, enjoy it and make up "your own mind" what it needs to be like. Mitch

PS: Open to being bashed so go ahead lay in!

[Guest carlbraun]

OK Riviera people: You aren't going to like this because I am about to rain on many people's parade. The black plate entire license thing is entirely mythology. I mean who really cares what the plate is as long as it's legit. After a recent long discussion of restoration with one of the most anal people I have ever met, even he admitted that there are so many contradictions to period, period correct, authentic and everything else that things can be confusing.

I say, after making your old Riv (or any thing else for that matter) safe and reliable, just

get in your car and drive it, enjoy it and make up "your own mind" what it needs to be like. Mitch

PS: Open to being bashed so go ahead lay in!

Hey Mitch

No bashing here but you do need to understand that my musclecar buddies in Chicago and Minnesota would gouge your eyes out for an original black plate car or even the plate for that matter. I find old black plates for them and they hand them in their shops for that California "ambiance". Another thing too...if any of you have watched 'Chasing Classic Cars' you'll see Wayne Carini (sp?) hauling cars out of his east coast shop with the old yellow with black and black with yellow plates. He know the cars value is elevated with a period correct California plate.

True California black plate cars are getting rare especially since the state allowed for the reissue of the black plates for your vintage vehicle.

lastly...looking at Mr Spock Riviera I would assume the car is a very late 1964 car. Can anyone verify this car and year of manufacture? The car sports a California black plate but it has a "P" prefix indicating the plate would have been issued very late 64 or early 65. I would think the car sat on the dealers lot and was sold in the spring/summer of 1965. Most of the ORIGINAL black plate cars I've run across here in Cal that were sold in early 65 begin with a N or an O or a P prefix. There are a lot of cars that came to CA in the 60s from out of state so an example would be a 61 Buick coming to CA from AZ in 1969 would have received a plate with a prefix beginning with an Xor Yor Z when it was registered as a CA car.

Anyone else have any comment on this letter to year sequence?

Edited April 9, 2012 by carlbraun (see edit history)

[pyntre]

From what I understand , us folks here in Minnesota can no longer register an old plate , ie ,1965 Minnesota plate for our 1965 Riviera, 61 plate for our 61 impala etc... You have lots of choices on a new plate but not an old one . Sort of a shame , I was looking forward to having that old green plate on the back of my Riv...

[JZRIV]

OK Riviera people: You aren't going to like this because I am about to rain on many people's parade. The black plate entire license thing is entirely mythology. I mean who really cares what the plate is as long as it's legit. After a recent long discussion of restoration with one of the most anal people I have ever met, even he admitted that there are so many contradictions to period, period correct, authentic and everything else that things can be confusing.

I say, after making your old Riv (or any thing else for that matter) safe and reliable, just

get in your car and drive it, enjoy it and make up "your own mind" what it needs to be like. Mitch

PS: Open to being bashed so go ahead lay in!

LOL - This does seem to one of those topics that has no middle ground. I recall a similar post with varying opinions. Obviously those that have black plate cars think one way and those that don't typically downplay the significance.

The free market dictates the value of the black plate car, not a single person so what any of us think doesn't matter but its fun to discuss opinions. Obviously a car has to be desireable to begin with for the black plate to have any significance. If a POS car has a black plate, well, its still a POS.

Its been my experience in watching ebay listings for many years that a car with original black plates will often demand a higher price or sometimes mean the difference between selling and not selling. Not always, but more times than not it does make a difference all things being equal. Had my current project not been a black plate car I would not have bought it. That little tidbit is what pushed me to buy when I was tetering not buying. It was at this time I did considerable research on the subject. I think the more desireable the model the more significance the black plate can have on value.

Lets pretend and say there were two identical 65 Rivs with all things being equal except one had black plates and the other didn't and you asked 10 people which one they wanted. Think all 10 would pick the black plate car?

Edited April 9, 2012 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Guest carlbraun]

California black plates are kinda like breast implants...everyone likes to critique them but everybody wants a set.

Here is a nice 65 Riviera for sale in Kansas and (gasp) it has a California black plate on it.

Buick : Riviera Buick : Riviera | eBay

A sharp eye will see the rear black plate does not follow the standard "original" letter/number format. It appears this owner has actually purchased (two) NEW novelty California black plates that are available at any swap meet...it has a newer format rear plate and not three letters then three numbers. To my knowledge California does not reproduce the black plates and you MUST find a good used set on the aftermarket. The front plate is obviously a novelty plate which would NOT be legal in the state of CA as the front plate must match the rear plate.

It seems that even the folks in Kansas love the old CA black plates!...real or not.

Look at the info provided below...it appears the state of CA produced a crap-load of plates between 63 and 67. More on this topic can be found here:

eBay Guides - California YOM 1963-69 license plate registration

Here's the scoop:

The 1963-69 series plate began alphabetically, with three letters beginning with AAA and ending in 1969 with approximately ZZW. Consequently, you can reasonably estimate the approximate year the plate was issued by the beginning three letters. For example, a plate beginning with D,E, F, G or H would or could have been issued in 1964. T, U or V would have been issued in 1967. W and X, 1968, Y and Z, 1969 and so on. So now, an entire era of great classic cars can run registered, correct year, original California plates and stickers (if you can find them).

Note: Custom made novelty aluminum plates are available from a number of sources that look pretty darn close to original California plates, but are different in a few crucial details: Gauge or thickness of aluminum is thinner, some are stamped (or blind embossed from rear) while others are just flat surface with painted on numbers. These type plates typically do not use the correct fonts and do not have the 63 year and month sticker recesses. It is illegal to reproduce even an old, license plate in California and probably in most states. However, the novelty plates are just the ticket for car shows, but will get you a ticket if run them on the street. They are NOT legal or acceptable at DMV and cannot be registered.

[JZRIV]

California black plates are kinda like breast implants...everyone likes to critique them but everybody wants a set.

Thats an interesting correlation Carl . Taking it a step further so if a women has breast implants are they worth more money? I imagine higher maintenance for sure!

Good point about the letter issue sequence and re-issuing. Any references I made were specific to a car that had its original plates. I think black plates that are reissued to a different car today doesn't count and I wouldn't place any greater significance on it. Just one more thing to look out for when buying a car that has black plates - make sure they are original if thats important to you. Since most cars were delivered and sold within a reasonable amount of time the plate number can sometimes indicate the rough time period of the cars build date.

I carefully peeled many years of registration stickers off both corners of my black plate down to the original 1966 sticker on one side the 1967 sticker on the other side. They were quite well preserved under all those other stickers.

[Guest lemmy-67]

I just re-painted the front plate of my 67. The rear plate is practically untouched, but the front plate was bent & mangled from years of parking into tight spaces. I hammered it as straight as I could get it, and put it in a nice chromed frame. I'll post some pics soon.

[bb1970]

I have a 1965 Missouri plate on my Riv. In Missouri you can use an older plate if the number is not in use. It is treated as a historic plate and doesn't need to renewed. And no front plate is needed. Pretty cool deal.

[steelman]

I have a 1965 Missouri plate on my Riv. In Missouri you can use an older plate if the number is not in use. It is treated as a historic plate and doesn't need to renewed. And no front plate is needed. Pretty cool deal.

Similar to the deal in Oklahoma. It is considered a Vanity Plate. But you still have to buy and update a regular current Oklahoma tag and keep it in the vehicle at all times. In the trunk or glove box is OK, but has to be with the vehicle.

[RivNut]

Kansas is like Missouri. I pay $17.00 per year to re-register the plate on the car. Any 35 year old car can run a plate from the same year as is on the title as long as the plate number is not in use on any other plate in the state. No yearly stickers either. My '64 will live in a time capsule with the plate I now have.

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK Carl: Look at that 65 Riv in Kansas. Standard, power windows, gold paint (a horrible color), no a/c, Seville wire wheels which could be down right dangerous and a reserve way above market plus a phoney CA front plate. I've seen better and I've seen worse. It still ain't sold because it's overpriced and I wouldn't trust the flipper at all.

In 1977 I just got my dealer's license and I was in and out of the DMV field office in Oakland all the time. There was a 60 Brookwood wagon parked in front of the joint for sale with plate AAA-000. I looked, acknowledged it's historical significance and went back to work.

A car that has a CA black plate only means that car has a black plate attached to it. Anyone making any other assumptions other than, a black plate is attached to a car, with out doing their homework will usually shoot themselves in the foot. I have seen many non reputable sellers fudge by putting a black plate on a car adding to their misrepresentation.

As far as the people that covet what they think a black plate represents goes, they can move out here like I did and experience the California Car Culture as well as the superior weather! I tell you, so far for me it has been nothing but a dream come true. Mitch

[Guest carlbraun]

OK Carl: Look at that 65 Riv in Kansas. Standard, power windows, gold paint (a horrible color), no a/c, Seville wire wheels which could be down right dangerous and a reserve way above market plus a phoney CA front plate. I've seen better and I've seen worse. It still ain't sold because it's overpriced and I wouldn't trust the flipper at all.

In 1977 I just got my dealer's license and I was in and out of the DMV field office in Oakland all the time. There was a 60 Brookwood wagon parked in front of the joint for sale with plate AAA-000. I looked, acknowledged it's historical significance and went back to work.

A car that has a CA black plate only means that car has a black plate attached to it. Anyone making any other assumptions other than, a black plate is attached to a car, with out doing their homework will usually shoot themselves in the foot. I have seen many non reputable sellers fudge by putting a black plate on a car adding to their misrepresentation.

As far as the people that covet what they think a black plate represents goes, they can move out here like I did and experience the California Car Culture as well as the superior weather! I tell you, so far for me it has been nothing but a dream come true. Mitch

Mitch

I moved to so Cal in 1999 and couldnt agree with you more. I travel back to the midwest every two or three weeks...just long enough to appreciate what i have back home.

When I first moved here I brought my 1969 Ram Air IV Judge to area shows and cruise nights and loved the car culture. But there was something different about cruise nights and car shows in California. Even at the big shows virtually no one wanted to look at the ULTRA rare Judge but rather they were drawn to the heavily modified cars that look like they were done at home in someones car port. Pomona and Del Mar have the best shows on the planet but to see the old "original" cars is a treat for me although something of a rarity. With guys like Foose and Brian at West Coast Customs wanting to rip out every original engine to replace it with a crate motor it seems the idea of keeping the cars all original is out of the question. In chicago it was exactly the opposite. Dont get me wrong...I love Chip Foose but if youve ever seen an episode of Overhaulin' where the original engine is used for the project, it never goes so well. The point? Even Chip Foose knows that keeping it original is much more difficult than popping in a new LS3 motor into a Buick Skylark or Chevelle...I really wonder if some of these people wanted their orignal motor yanked and replaced...? Surprise..you've just been Overhauled!!!

My favorite part of so cal is having the ability to leave my office at lunch to drive around old Escondido to see the Dodge Darts, 4 door Impalas, old pickup trucks and VW bugs sitting along the sides of houses or out in the streets with the black plates intact and the beautiful sun burnt patina on the sheet metal. I even snap photos of these cars to my buddy Dan in Ft Wayne to show him that these cars do, indeed, exist. He still thinks Im photoshopping the photos and says "there cant be that many old cars sitting on the streets of so Cal".

When I first moved here i bought an orignal owner so Cal 63 Riviera that came from Wessen Buick (black plate GBF117) for $900. I drove it for a year while all of the "Muchachos" drooled over the car dreaming of air bags, Supreme wheels and curb feelers for the car. I sold it on ebay to a resto shop in Lexington KY for 6 times what i paid for it and they performed a rotisserie resto on it and sold it for huge money. oh...and by the way...I told the resto shop I was keeping the orig black plates from the car and they threatened to cancel the sale and give me negative feedback...specifically, the guy was PISSED OFF that i even suggested keeping the plates and claimed the car wasnt worth the sale price without the plates...his words not mine. He got his black plates with the car.

Yes Mitch, the sun, weather and car culture is great here in so Cal but there is an underlying element of customizing anything that moves...I guess its always been here. It hasnt caught up with me yet.

[lrlforfun]

OK Carl: When I moved here from New Jersey at a young 22 in 1974 it was surreal. I saw cars I hadn't seen since I was a kid because in our neck of the woods there was a 10 year limit to what appeared on the road. Sure, there were a bunch of 64 Impala sedan kind of cars in the blue collar neighborhoods but they too dropped off the radar screen quickly. "Old" just didn't seem to make it no matter how someone tried to preserve their car in West Orange, New Jersey.

Here in Oakland, CA it was a real car show on the city streets until the mid 80's when the interest in collector kind of cars went nuts. Old cars went into hibernation. Today there are a very small handful of these old cars in daily service.

Now, as far as the person who possesses glasses that will enable it's user to see through garage doors of single family houses, I would like to purchase a pair of them and between that, and a frozen pizza, I think I will be set for life! Mitch

[Patrick91914]

I must have five or six black plate sets in my garage. I don't get the black plate thing. My car has them, but if I had a car from another with period correct plates, that would be just as interesting to me.

As an interesting side note, my first Riv, which Dick Sweeney and I cut up for parts, came from Lausen Buick. I may even still have the dealer license plate frame.

[pyntre]

Thought I would include these pictures of the stainless steel license plate frames that came on my 65 Riviera . This car was super original so I feel these are period correct. I really dig the rear plate frame and the "hood" that bumps out on the top. They both need to be sent to the stainless restorer for some pick work and buffing but they would be cool on the right car, I would be willing to sell these if somebody is interested. :mad: Email me via pm and I will send picture as I cant upload to the forum for some reason......